I had a really busy weekend, thank goodness. I didn't have time to obsess too much, and not enough time to get worked up enough to drag my H through lots of "talks" that he hates!<P>He's been keeping up the "I want to come home" line.<P>We had an argument once again about his drinking, and I've decided rather than try to be "right" about it, to simply say that his drinking is a problem for me, and therefore is affecting our marriage. I've insisted that he find someone, a priest, a counselor, whatever, to act as an advisor, and that at the very least, he needs to tell that person that his wife has a problem with his drinking, and ask that person what he can do to reassure his wife.<P>He's agreed to find someone to talk to about all this.<P>He said he'll happily write a no-contact letter to his OW, and allow me to deliver it.<P>We had the most productive conversation tonight that we have ever had our entire marriage. He actually took (verbally anyway) responsiblity for his part in his affair and the events leading up to it. There's been a tone and an attitude that is more calm, quiet and mature than I have ever seen. Even his family is noticing that he has in some ways changed for the better. <P>Heck, he even admitted that he thought the Marriage Builder's principles were right, and that he had seen alot of himself in the books and understood why he had his affair. He confessed that for whatever reason, he couldn't stand Steve Harley. (Well why didn't he just say that then?)<P>I'm NOT sitting here joyfully hoping that the situation has turned around - frankly, I'm absolutely scared stiff that he will do what I've been requesting all this time. I'm actually terrified that he is going to give me a reason to reconsider and reconcile.<P>Part of me is screaming run run run as fast as you can!!!<P>And then my son came to me on his birthday morning this weekend, and said "Mommy, I just want Papa to come home. I don't care how he acts, I just want him with us again."<P>Ugh. Bleah.<P>I just have this sickening feeling in my stomach that I am getting ready to choose to put myself through more heartache.<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

It sounds like hell! Things don't change but people do (at least many do no matter what age). And YOU CAN teach an old dog new tricks. It sounds like you have put a tremendous amont of work into this relatioinship. It also sounds like your H has done some soul searching and agrees with You and MB principles. Don't discount your child's feelings either. The impact of divorce will be life long. I am proof of that.<P>Also, what if the the changes he may be going through are real, and all your hard work to help him goes to benefit the next woman in his life. Why did you work so hard anyway?... to benefit him and the future love in has life? What would you have gained?... a much improved man who is your former husband estranged from his true family, not to mention your son.<P>Be cautious, but it may be to soon to give up. As Ronald Reagan used to say about the Soviets: Trust, but validate. Take it one day at a time. Best of luck!

Okay, so you have every right to be cautious... but you also are sounding somewhat ... hmmm, what's the word? I wouldn't say interested, I wouldn't say content, I'm not sure what I would say. <P>My heart is hurting for you right now... torn between the boundaries and your children. So, what does AA say about reconciliation? Surely, they say a lot about walking away but do they say anything about this? Also, do you have any models that have been through alcoholic reconciliation that you could enlist as sponsors as well? You're treading water my dear and I know your arms are getting so tired. <P>I'm so worried about you... you've got to now more than ever put your trust in the Lord. HE knows and HE is with you during all of this. Pray for Him to Bless or Block this reconciliation process according to His Will... BE open to God - keep your eyes on HIM and HE will direct your path. If you look horizontally at your H, you will see pain and heartache... you've got to keep your eyes vertical and look to HIM to guide and order your steps.<P>It's surrender time... to Christ who lives inside of you. Let change unfold and don't try to control any of it... you're in a massive state of flux right now and take things one day, one hour at a time my dear... <P>I just can't believe this turn of events... it's been written off for so long now that to have it turn around is even unsettling for me! BUT WHY? This is Marriage Builders! BR, hang IN there and do what YOU know to be right for your children and what God would have for you as a Woman and Mother... (I'll hold off on the role of wife for the time being).<P>Prayers and thoughts surrounding you my dear...<BR>Nicole<P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17

BR, Oh my gosh... I can understand how terrified you feel. I don't really know your whole story since I've only been on the D/D board for about a month. "...the most productive conversation in our entire marriage..." Wow, that's saying a lot! I know that my H got sober 11 years ago when I was really able to detach with love (something I haven't managed this time around, but there was no affair back then). Do you think this is what happened in your case? Where could I read more of your story?

BR,<P>Boy, I was in your shoes big-time with my alcoholic husband. My kid said the same thing as yours. I questioned my decision to insist on sobriety with a resistant spouse over and over. I heard all kinds of excuses, reasons, validations, rationalizations, intellectualizations--all very well stated and backed up, and it was still a bunch of bull.<P>If all I was dealing with was a happy drunk who did well in all other aspects of his life, I would have relaxed my standards and worked more on my coping skills. However, so many issues in his life affected mine deleteriously that my happiness was seriously compromised. I not only detached, but I had to pull way, way back (for my own safety) that I was reduced to living with my roommate instead of my husband. <P>The alcohol exacerbated the abuse, the infidelity, and the covert manipulation. I learned real quick that just because he's not been drinking for a while does not mean he's sober. Man, he can get those words to drip off his tongue like honey or spew from his throat like fire. And he lied like a rug about his drinking. Says he only has an "occasional" glass of whine. I got him on video going to bar after bar with his girlfriend several times a week. Given the chance, he'd try to convince me that that's occasional, or that he was merely sipping Perrier. <P>What has me really concerned is that little boy of ours who idolizes his dad like Superman is being driven in the car after Dad's had a drink. Next time, it will be two, then three. And, his father took him out of town about 60 miles for 3 days without telling me, I guess to make sure he could have his pina colada in peace. And if you were to meet this man, you would be enamored by his charm and "honesty."<P>I say, stick to your guns, gals. You're more important than alcohol. I cannot believe my husband chooses to give up his family, his child, and me over his "right" to drink. Well, then that's fine. I'm free to improve my life, unencumbered by a selfish drunk who thinks he can dupe the world like he's duped himself.<P>OK, sorry for the spiel. Man, once I get going, I go to town! Every situation is different. You know best what you need to do. There was an article on another board on listening to your "gut feeling." That inner voice knows the conscious and the subconscious. As much as I hurt, and as much as I miss my husband, my inner voice tells me which way to go. And when I listen to her, I can follow my heart.<P>Blessings to all,<BR>Nell

Hey sweetie,<P>Just wanted to let you know I am thinking of you. Dont have too much to add here.<P>You are a wise woman, dont discount what you have learned. Trust your self!! <P>If he were that serious about reconciliation, he would be willing to agree to any boundaries you set forth. If it were me, I would spell them out clearly to him. ( No drinking, ow ,etc.)<P>Think about it!!<P>Why are you here at marraige builders? You, like all of us, desperately want a healthy intact marraige. <P>Think about you goal. If he is willing, isnt this all worth it?<P>I myself am scared to death about my situation. I am scared of failure myself.<P>Take a leap of faith, my friend, for your son. You dont have much to lose. Test the waters to see how willing he is 'make things right.'<P>Thinking of you,<P>Dara

BR,<P>I just wish there was someway I could manufacture a bsOmeter and send it too you. Can't get a good feeling about taking "a leap in faith", how about one step at a time, and one day at a time? <P>If you're stbx is serious about this, (given the childish nature you have described in him, he is probably just about as serious as he is capable of) you will know for sure within a year or so. The cycle is so familiar to me, drink up, screw up, make up, put up, drink up, screw up, etc. I really think the man still loves you, but it is in an infantile way, the mature love a man has for a woman just isn't there yet. And he still wants to hold onto his bottle.<P>What sets the bsOmeter in a tizzy this morning is the fact that your stbx really isn't in any position to be trying to bargain with you, but he is still trying. Without proper therapy, chances of recovery are greatly reduced. Just recall the post where you asked him if he would give up prime rib, and he responded no, he wouldn't let you control him. Think about that for a moment while you go to a mirror.<P>Look into the mirror, and stick your tongue out after you recite this phrase: <B>"You're not the boss of me!"</B> (It doesn't work unless you stick your tongue out) Let me know if that reminds you of something you heard somewhere before. Now, please, bring to mind the POJA and do a little comparison between the two ideas.<P>Accepting responsibility? If that is true, what is he offering to do to compensate for the pain the infidelity and drinking caused you? If he isn't willing to try to compensate for the behavior, this reconcillation doesn't have a chance. The one thing you want most, he still isn't willing to do, get help with his drinking. And stbx is still trying to set up the scenario where he can contine drinking the way he always has, only without the marriage problems. That isn't highly likely.<P>There is no instant recovery, no instant experience, and no instant reconcillation. Our friend CJ is finding out that there are still a few growing pains in the process. My marriage broke up several years into sobriety, there are no guarentees. No, they didn't make an exception in your case.<P>I pray that you and your husband will one day put your marriage back together. But right now, it is a festering wound that he is trying to cover over with a bandaid. Like a surgical procedure, that wound must be opened up, properly cleaned out, and allowed to heal properly. You are going to need competant help to do that. And no competant counselor will try to treat your case while he is still drinking.<P>Once again, I pray that you will resolve all doubt in favor of your own best judgement. Whatever you decide, and whatever the outcome, we will be here for you.<P>Prayers and Stuff,<P>Bumper

Wow, I wrote this incoherent message before sleeping last night and look at all these responses!! <P>So much to wrestle with. I was SO ready to be on with this divorce. I have a meeting with my attorney on Thursday; I'd like to have some idea of what kind of a direction I'm headed in. As I said, my gut instinct right now says run while I can.<P><B>Never say die</B> ~ <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It sounds like you have put a tremendous amont of work into this relatioinship. It also sounds like your H has done some soul searching and agrees with You and MB principles. Don't discount your child's feelings either. The impact of divorce will be life long. I am proof of that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I have exhausted every possible avenue before turning to divorce. The first time we tried to recover our marriage - MB was my H's choice. I had done alot of research on marriage recovery, and I gave him articles from Divorce Busting, MB, and a couple other things. At that time, he said MB made a lot of sense. 4 or 5 sessions with S. Harley later...and he was telling me MB was crap, and was out sneaking around on dates with women he met through an internet personals ad.<P>But also, he never did follow through with actually agreeing to the POJA, writing a no contact letter to his OW, and never did make himself accountable for his time and behavior, refused to give me accesss to his private life. This time...he is saying that he intends to do these things and that he realizes that not doing them the first time was a mistake.<P>Hi <B>Nicole</B> ~<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>So, what does AA say about reconciliation? Surely, they say a lot about walking away but do they say anything about this? Also, do you have any models that have been through alcoholic reconciliation that you could enlist as sponsors as well?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No one in AA or Al-Anon will advise me one way or another. Staying or going is my own responsibility and choice. If I choose to stay, my sponsor won't give me an F in Al-Anon, but she will kick me in the rearend if I then begin acting like a victim and a martyr. She'll have the nerve to remind me that I chose this. <P>I have some things to work out with God. I've always had a pretty rocky relationship with Him. The last 2 weeks before my scheduled court date, I had spent a great deal of time in prayer, begging for willingness to listen to His will, willingness to accept, and willingness to carry it out.<P>I was doing just great until my H started pressuring me 2 days before hand (the timing is a huge red flag) - and then when it got canceled....well here I am looking at God saying, "So, what was THAT all about? What are you trying to tell me? What lesson have I not learned yet? How many times do I have to choose to divorce this man?"<P><whine> Geez, most people decide to divorce, and before they know it, its done. Here I am trying to decide for a THIRD time!! Why is it so darn hard for me to divorce this man? </whine><P>My friend the monk said to me the other night that my idea of God seems to be one of the "Divine Ambusher" and that my thinking is just a tad screwed up. Here I am going along, minding my own business, happy happy happy, and God seems to just leap out of no where to trip me up, and then sits back giggling.<P>Obviously I'm going to be in Al-Anon for the rest of my life trying to straighten my head out, regardless of my marriage to my H or not.<P><B>LetsTry</B> ~ Things have always improved between my H and I when I am successfully practicing detachment. The last few months (since mid March) have been really really good with him. We've had a few bumps where I lost it with him, but for the most part, I've stayed friendly, polite and communicative regarding the children. I've done everything I could to facilitate his relationship with them.<P>After I served him papers, he went running back to his OW. He doesn't know how much I really do know about his relationship with her. I've been witholding that info, comparing it with what he offers me. So far, while he has been hesitant, everything he's said has been truthful.<P>While I've been working my Al-Anon program, staying detached, and working a modified Plan A - his OW was love busting big time. They tried to "rebuild" after I served him divorce papers, and I have to say, instead of hurting me, most of the info I have gotten has made me giggle. She went out and had $7000 in a breast augmentation done!!! She was always suspicious of him (gee imagine that) and made up stuff to manipluate him and played alot of very nasty head games. She swore she had him followed and had pictures of him dating other women!! (I'm giggling as I type). He was only guilty of...dating his wife and kids!! All those weekends that she couldn't reach him because he didn't answer his phone .... he was with me and our children, and honestly trying to help and take care of his responsiblities.<P>I read an email that he wrote to her, chewing her out for spending the money on the breast surgery and diamonds, instead of buying a washer and dryer for her home, instead of buying an entertainment center and bedroom furniture for her children.<P>So, I know, tho he doesn't know I know, that he's had a major reality check over the last couple of months.<P>Anyway, if you really want to read my longwinded profile, its at: <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000254-3.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000254-3.html</A> <P><B>Nell</B> ~ <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The alcohol exacerbated the abuse, the infidelity, and the covert manipulation. I learned real quick that just because he's not been drinking for a while does not mean he's sober. Man, he can get those words to drip off his tongue like honey or spew from his throat like fire.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, yes, and yes. One of our ongoing discussions over the last few days as he "bargains" is that he will quit drinking but he's not going to get help by going to AA. And I've told him that just quitting won't help anything. In fact, I think if he just quits without getting help, it will mean divorce for certain. My H is a wonderful lovely man while drinking, and mean, nasty and impatient when sober. I couldn't stand him sober without help.<P>Hi <B>Dara</B>!! I can't possibly take a "leap of faith" for this man. Lying is his M.O. The most I can do is be open the possibility that he is sincere, and to watch to see if his actions match his promises. I'm not wise at all. If I was, I wouldn't be here pouring out my guts to you folks, hoping to gain some clarity in my thoughts.<P>We tried recovery once before and it was hell. I don't want to suffer that again. I don't want to suffer through infidelity and lies and more neglect. <P>And yet, I read the Wallerstein book on the affect of divorce on children, and I see how much our children love him...my older son begging me to bring his dad home about broke my heart.<P>And after I posted this message last night, my H told me that my youngest son (8) had told him this weekend that "Papa, you can't love somebody else and love us too."<P>When I tucked my son into bed, I asked him if it was true, and he said "Yes, and Papa didn't even get mad!!" Argh. My sons were afraid to talk to him for so long - and I do think that there IS a change in my H's attitude, and thats why my sons all of a sudden are feeling OK to voice their opinions about all of this. I've had them in counseling and they KNOW about alcoholism and affairs. <P>I know what alcoholism does to children. But my children are getting help and educated - and they love and want their dad.<P>My stomach just knots up about it. I lived in a hellaciously controlling abusive home growing up. Would I have wanted my dad to leave? Never!!! Yes, maybe I would have had a healthier environment, but I don't think I would have been better off.<P>Or am I just making excuses? <B>Bumper</B> have you still got the BSometer out?<P>Yes, if we do this, its going to be one step at a time. In fact that is what my H requested. He told me that he is worried about stuff inside of himself, and he knows we can't just all of a sudden be better. One step at a time.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I really think the man still loves you, but it is in an infantile way, the mature love a man has for a woman just isn't there yet. And he still wants to hold onto his bottle.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I think you are dead on accurate here. He does love me on some level, and he does love his children. He also wants to set things right. But he's still in denial and panics at the thought of life without booze.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Accepting responsibility? If that is true, what is he offering to do to compensate for the pain the infidelity and drinking caused you? If he isn't willing to try to compensate for the behavior, this reconcillation doesn't have a chance. The one thing you want most, he still isn't willing to do, get help with his drinking. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I have put the responsibility for this on him. We agreed that he was going to give me his plan for repair of our relationship. We have been discussing it on and off over the last few days so I do know that there are definite areas of improvement over the last time he begged for another chance. <P>My sponsor, when I discussed this with her, said simply, that alcoholism is a self diagnosed disease. And that if he thinks he doesn't have a problem, then he doesn't. But that doesn't mean that I don't have a problem with his behavior, and that my problem with his drinking does need to be addressed. <P>So instead of trying to convince him that he is an alcoholic and demanding that he attend AA - I'm simply insisting that he have a plan for working on his own problems, and that his plan does have to involve counseling of some form. The rest I have to leave in God's hands. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>And stbx is still trying to set up the scenario where he can contine drinking the way he always has, only without the marriage problems. That isn't highly likely.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is why I am scared. I'm finding myself wondering how much I can live with. I'm finding that I am bargaining with myself, wondering if there is some kind of middle ground that I can gain with acceptance and detachment while working an Al-Anon program, so that I can live with this.<P>What on earth am I thinking?<P>As usual Bumper, your comments and opinions are so good. Too bad you don't live nearby so I could sit down and pick your brain over a cup of coffee!! <P>I guess right now, I'm weighing all of this.<P>I don't imagine that it would be a "successful" recovery. But which is going to be worse on the kids?<P>I guess I need to give it a few weeks anyway, and see how serious he really is this time. His plan will give me some idea I hope.<P>Thanks everyone, for all the help. Thank goodness I can talk about this here!<P> <P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

I'm still thinking that it's time for you to delve into the Spiritual side of things... your monk/friend is right if what you say about God is your perception. Pray for reality, pray to know how much HE loves you. I know as I type this I'm sounding all super-spiritual and all but I mean it as honestly as I can. Please, seek the TRUTH and the TRUTH will set you free.<P>Also, I think I may have suggested this before, try to get a copy of Henri Nouwen's book <I>The Inner Voice of Love: A Journey Through Anguish to Freedom </I> and read 2-3 pages (no more - and sometimes only 1 page) a day/night. Let his experience with depression and total life collapse penetrate into you... I'm also reading a book now by Parker Palmer <I>Let Your Life Speak</I> that is incredible as well. I too have three kids and find it tough to find the time to read. These books lend themselves nicely to reading just a bit then reflecting on them.<P>As many have said, you don't need to determine your future right now... I wouldn't say "RUN" as you're suggesting... Just walk, one foot in front of the other, one day at a time. How has a Plan B gone for you? Maybe you can have a modified Plan B for six months or longer for him to demonstrate a commitment to this process... in the meantime you will hold off on the divorce? After the time is up, then you both sit down and decide what you're going to do openly and honestly.<P>Bumperi did mention the POJA, that works both ways... him enthusiastically agreeing to what you want to do as well as you enthusiastically agreeing to what he wants... it sounds like you both haven't yet found what that agreement place is yet.<P>Whatever you do, know that we're here to support you and not to judge you. By your posting this, I feel that you're asking us to be honest in our feedback. HOWEVER, I don't have an understanding of dealing with alcoholism, that's why I keep turning to God on this because of my inexperience with this.<P>If he has love for you and is loving to his maximum right now given his disease, what more could one ask from him? He needs to grow and mature yes, but to reject him for something he cannot give makes me wonder about how one would deal with the issue? Do I make any sense here?<P>Keep talkin' to us...! I've learned so much from you and love the way you think! As Mary, mother of Jesus spent much time pondering things on her heart and Mary, sister of Martha just spent time sitting at the feet of Jesus while her sister Martha was busy making preparations and plans, I'm wondering about you just taking a break for now not planning or controlling or shaping your future right now... 3 times you've tried for this and it's been blocked... you're DEAD RIGHT ON to be asking a few questions like, WHY?<P>Blessings, my dear!<BR>Nicole<P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17

BR, I just read your profile. I can really relate to the on and off relationship, though you've been through it even more times than me. I have to agree with Bumper that <<your stbx really isn't in any position to be trying to bargain with you, but he is still trying. Without proper therapy, chances of recovery are greatly reduced.>> <P>Giving in once again will only lead to the same place it has before. He may truly be serious this time, but don't follow the same path you have in the past, make him be the one to make the necessary changes.<P>My H asked a friend to ask me (I have a restraining order so he can't talk to me directly) if there is any possibility of reconciliation. The friend said he knew what I'd say, that my H is still with OW and still drinking. My H replied that he knew he had to get sober and he was almost done with OW and they both knew it couldn't work out (I don't think she knows this!). I told the friend to tell him to call me when he's in treatment and all the way done with OW. His reply was, "F*** it then."<P>Your H may be more serious than this, but I'd have to agree with Bumper again <<If that is true, what is he offering to do to compensate for the pain the infidelity and drinking caused you? If he isn't willing to try to compensate for the behavior, this reconcillation doesn't have a chance. The one thing you want most, he still isn't willing to do, get help with his drinking. And stbx is still trying to set up the scenario where he can continue drinking the way he always has, only without the marriage problems. THAT ISN'T HIGHLY LIKELY.>><P>Nell, <<I say, stick to your guns, gals. You're more important than alcohol. I cannot believe my husband chooses to give up his family, his child, and me over his "right" to drink. Well, then that's fine. I'm free to improve my life, unencumbered by a selfish drunk who thinks he can dupe the world like he's duped himself.>> Here, here, you go girl!<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bumperii:<BR><B>Accepting responsibility? If that is true, what is he offering to do to compensate for the pain the infidelity and drinking caused you? If he isn't willing to try to compensate for the behavior, this reconcillation doesn't have a chance.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I gotta disagree with this. There is simply no way he could <I>ever</I> compensate for his past behavior, and if he's out of the fog at all, he knows it. No doubt BrambleRose knows it as well. Without <I>forgiveness</I>, there is no chance for reconciliation.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>The one thing you want most, he still isn't willing to do, get help with his drinking. And stbx is still trying to set up the scenario where he can contine drinking the way he always has, only without the marriage problems. That isn't highly likely.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><I>This</I> is the problem. Here we have a guy who is very bright, who knows all the right language, and who has a history of dishonesty. Obviously, his promises are as meaningful as your average romance novel. He is going to have to <I>demonstrate</I> his willingness and ability to make the necessary changes, and do it for a significant period of time, before he has any credibility whatsoever.<BR>

GDP, probably "compensate" isn't the best word. Forgiveness is important for US, but that doesn't mean we FORGET and start the same cycle over again. You're right, there's no way WS, especially alcoholic WS, can "compensate" for their behavior, but they need to be willing to make "amends" for their behavior, take responsibility for what they've done,and take responsibility for changing their current and future behavior.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LetSTry:<BR><B>GDP, probably "compensate" isn't the best word. Forgiveness is important for US, but that doesn't mean we FORGET and start the same cycle over again. You're right, there's no way WS, especially alcoholic WS, can "compensate" for their behavior, but they need to be willing to make "amends" for their behavior, take responsibility for what they've done,and take responsibility for changing their current and future behavior.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Exactly!<P><BR>

Hey...just talking about the drinking thing reminds me of Oprah today. I don't know if many of you watch it. There was a couple and the wife was blaming all of their marital problems on drinking. Anyway...after a few years - the husband decided to cold turkey stop. He did. The wife thought that everything was going to be roses from then and it was still really hard. It seems like everything in their marriage that was bad was because of drinking. <P>I'm only saying this because it hit me in the face. My husband has forbidden me to drink alcohol. He thinks it has contributed to all of our problems. I stopped almost a year ago, and our problems are worse. I guess every situation is different, but I think alot of our problems were real problems, not just alcohol problems. <P>Just my opinion.<P>

LIL, Most of us living with an alcoholic, or a person who's drinking is a problem for us, blame all problems on the alcohol, try everything we can to make the drinker stop drinking, and believe that all our problems will be solved if we can just accomplish this. Many of us turn to Al-Anon when all our best efforts don't seem to be able to achieve this end. In Al-Anon we learn that the only person we can control is ourselves and that our own happiness depends upon us, not other people, including the problem drinker.<P>Drinking is never the whole problem, but drinking is a stumbling block that must be removed before the "real" issues can be addressed.

BR-<P>Just popped in. Been reading here daily, but am at a loss of words to post to you. My skin literally crawls and I get naseous just thinking of going through this. It does seem like you are granting consideration to him. You ask why you are having such a hard time divorcing this man. Despite all he has put you through, it SHOULD be hard. You are brave either way you look at it. You said you will be in Al-anon for the rest of your life regardless of how your marriage works out becasue you need to fix your "head." There is much courage in that statement, and it shows that the focus is on you, not just your relationship, and your sanity and safety. <P>I have never been in recovery with an alcoholic, I don't have kids, and I was just told of his problem by him (6 months after the D) so I haven't lived with it for years and years. I don't know what I can offer you. Just know that I am thinking of you, and thank you for your recent support of me. <P>LetsTry-<BR>Good point about the alcohol being the scapegoat, for lack of a better word. I knew I had a marriage worth saving, a love that was strong, and a mutual respect that was real in many ways. The insecurity issues, the EA, the financial irresponsibility, my depression, his lies, all of it, was solvable and workable. But we couldn't get to point A without crossing through the drinking. So we never got there. We threw away so much. And for that I grow angrier everyday. <P>Cheryl

Alcohol addiction is a problem in itself, but it is also an <I>avoidance</I> mechanism. That is why it affects everything in a relationship.<BR>