My husband is gradually building such resentment in me that I could just scream. His past weekend was his birthday. On Friday (his birthday) he took the day off to work at home on our new porch we are building. The two girls who keep our youngest child at our daycare center (very good friends of ours) called him to tell him Happy Birthday. He told them that what he wanted for his birthday was for them to come over and (pardon the french)"screw him". They both laughed (he is constantly joking around with them) and hung up on him after him saying this two or three times. He told me about it as well as them. They all think its so cute and funny. One woman is not his race, one is his race, but married. Saturday nite he called the woman from daycare he goes to the races with (her and her mother and daughter) and they again joked around (in front of me) about "doing things" to one another. They all think its so funny. He used the "F" word 3 or 4 times in front of our 3 year old and was acting a fool. Then, Sunday, he went to Talladega Alabama for the races (with the lady from daycare and her mother and brother) - me and my boys beeped him a few times after 8:00 pm (should have been home by then) because we needed a code to order a payperview event on TV. About 8:30 he called me back from the car and in a MEAN voice said "WHAT DO YOU WANT" (I guess cause I beeped him 3 times. I told him I wanted the code for the TV. Then, I asked him where he was. He replied "where do you think? IN THE CAR" I said, "when did you leave the race" and his response was "WHAT DO YOU WANT??" - so I hung up on him. I am so tired of his attitude, his cursing language, (this he does in front of the kids - talking about "screwing" other women) He claims to be so Mr. Moral but yet so honest that he can say anything in front of me. I am sick and tired of this life with him. We've been married for 7 years (my 2nd marriage) and have 3 kids. (my two are 15, 1nd 13) and ours together is 3 yrs old. What do you people think about this? It seems to me like he spends more time worrying about this woman at daycare, and another thing he does that is WIERD to me is talks via EMail to these two gay women at his work. Does anyone thing he is psycho other than me and am I missing something?

cendy, by looking at the whole picture, reading between the lines, based on my experience with men i've known, i would guess he is on the make and is keeping all the options open for any possible sexual encounters. hope i've haven't been two blunt. his language, in the presence of children is unacceptable and probably based on his immaturity. all the other stuff is being done just to keep on sexual trail. good luck.

Frankie - <BR>I feel the same way. I have said things to him about it and you know what he tells me? He says if he WERE going to do anything with any women - which he would NEVER do - he sure wouldn't be talking about it in front of me! Why would he say something like that in front of me? He makes me so sick! He is 35 years old and has quite an extensive military background - he is very unaffectionate (I sometimes laugh when he does say these things to these girls cause I think - he sure doesn't want sex with me, why with them?) I am NOT bragging - but I have a very decent build, no excess weight on me, and one of these ladies is the opposite race and FAT (I mean really fat) and the other girl is married to a loser and is as homely looking as you can get. Our sex life is as "dull" as you could imagine - he doesn't care for sex. Never has in our 7 year marriage. Once a month is a LOT for him. I just think the whole picture is WIERD and it stinks that a guy could treat a faithful, hardworking, good wife that way. Very insensitive. I actually sat with the kids last nite thinking "I hope he doesn't even come home" tonite. Thats bad. Of course, he came in Mr. Chipper since he thought I was ticked.

Cndy,<P>I havn't had this particular problem, but might I suggest you read Dr. Harley's book "His Needs, Her Needs". This was a realy eyeopener for me into some of the things my H says/does. Try to get him to read it too.... if he is resistant, let him see you reading it when you are together. Then, leave it out where he can see it.... sometimes curosity (his) will effect desired results. He will wonder what is so interesting about it, and look for himself.<P>Good luck!<BR>Dawn

Thanks Dawn - I will try that book. This morning I was getting read for work and he came downstairs and turned the dryer on, turned it off. Then went back out into laundry room and opened the dryer. I said to him (first words of the morning) "What are you looking for". His response (in a very sarcastice tone) was "I'm not looking for anything - I'm folding the F------ Clothes". I just looked at him and said<BR>"my goodness, someone got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning" WHAT CALLS FOR THOSE MOOD SWINGS? I think something is up.

cndy, your h's bad behavior towards you may be an effort to distance himself from you so that you will not be inclined to seek effection or sex and so that you will not expect him to initiate it. i suspect your h may be flirting with other woman because he doesn't feel any need to perform and still get some excitement from the friendly relationship. maybe you intimadate him with you desire. he may feel he can't keep up with your pace. perhaps he's interested in younger women, i.e., girls because they are not as demanding. obviously i'm guessing. i do intend to go to therapy after my w gets a job here at our new location. that should be in a few weeks. btw, i will read the book you suggested above. the title clearly indicates it's on the mark. i think your remark, this isn't a dress rehersal, it's the real thing and it's up to us to make our lives as happy or good as possible, (i'm paraphrase of course).<BR>this is an interesting thread. let's keep exploring it.

Frankie - <BR>What an interesting perspective you give. I don't expect him to initiate sex - he only does that once every 3 months or so. I gave up on initiating after being turned away "all the time" - I learn my lessons quick. I don't even have a "so called PACE" anymore, because he won't let me. Sex to him is like doing something he puts off and off (i.e., washing the cars) - and it seems that when I get really ticked off at him - he senses it and THEN and only THEN, he "might" initiate sex. Besides that, he's convinced that our 3 year old son just cannot sleep alone so his place is in the middle of us at night (husbands call) I've voiced my opinion on that; as my two boys (15 and 12) have never slept with me, not even as babies.<BR>My true feeling (and it could be wrong as he also does not like to TALK) is that he enjoys letting people know he is "married" and has a "wife" - but its a cover for something. Because thats the only role I see us playing, is the titles we carry. Other than that, he does nothing with me and the boys, he works all day till 8 at nite. Eats, and goes to bed. We have moved on with socializing without him - but its a cover. Maybe he's gay. Maybe he's not who I think he is. He's a wierdo I can say that, but I don't know his game. I can't change him and don't want to. So, I feel like I am sliding away, living my own life for me and my kids and turn the other cheek on his actions, words, and lack of affection. Who knows? Maybe he will disappear into who he really is - go figure cause I sure can't figure him.

cndy, this is a rhetorical question, could whatever is causing him to relate to you as he does also come into play with how he relates to your boys and how your boys perceive a man to be? it's a scary thought. i can't imagine how you've been able to maintain your relationship as well as you have for such a long time. that's a grand example of dedication and commitment. i wonder, as i suppose you do, is it worth it? i don't mean to be judgemental because i'm in not position to but again i've got this bottemless pit of thoughts.

Frankie - your right on the money. It SEEMS to be a bottomless pit. I don't know what to do - what I "want" for us is not going to happen (if it hasn't in 7 years) and I cannot change that. Do I feel right being married to him? No. My biggest factor is that I have been thru a divorce (I was married at age 21 for 10 years) and my ex (who happens to be a good friend of ours now) had turned to alcohol abuse and womanizing; after a good YEAR of suffering and catching him with someone else, I walked. I have paid the price of leaving a marriage with children (their hurt, their pain, their wanting to live with mom and dad, giving up the home we had) and SWORE and vowed that if I ever remarried it would be for good. Thru all the bad that could happen. Why? For the kids. They have a nice home in a nice community, they have finally learned to deal with divorce, we live 2 miles from their dad - things are SOOO settled and running smoothly for them. They are 15 and 13 and make straight A's. I know what another divorce and disruption in their lives would do. So, what happens? I suffer. Terribly. I love the man and he cannot love me back. You don't treat the people you love like crap like he does me. His mood swings, his depressions, his actions, flirting, nasty talking to other women, it all grinds all over me and I just act as if I don't care. He has no real relationship with MY two boys. Thank god they are good kids. He has never told them "great grades" or "good job on the project" and in fact, I had to help my male teen son BUILD a project (a mans job in my opinion) while "he" mowed the grass, ran to the races, ANYTHING but help him. My kids treat him fine - but they know he's nothing more than a friend. He treats OUR 3 year old like gold though and the older two notice it. That is very hurtful and unfair and I have told him so. Once again, I can't change that. My boys are smart. They know he's crazy sometimes. They know WHO they can depend on (me and their dad) and they never ask him for a thing - because typically, he doesn't answer them just like me. Hes a good ignorer of what he doesn't want to hear. He won't even drop my 15 year old off at high school in the morning (on his WAY to work) because he feels he "should" ride the bus. Pure idiot. The dedication and commitment hasn't been for my husband (not lately) but for my kids. And no, its not worth it. It really isn't - but I cannot decide what my options are. I really am at a stalemate point. I try to portray to the children that things are fine; you wouldnt believe what I do for this man. I cook his dinner every single night and have it on the stove for him when he gets home at 8 or 9 pm. I wash all his clothes, I keep his house spotless, I take HIS dog to the vet, I treat HIS child like I treat my own, I help him when he asks for it, I never talk badly about him in front of my kids or any friends, I keep up the conversation with his family (that he could care less about) - I do everything a good wife is supposed to do, I work a fulltime job and bring home as much money (or more) than he does and don't hold back a penny of it. I truly dont care if the guy comes or goes, stays or leaves. Lives or dies. I really don't - except for the hurt that his son would feel from missing him and thats what keeps me there. I wish someone out there COULD tell me where to go and what to do? ???? <p>[This message has been edited by Cndy (edited April 28, 1999).]

cndy, we both know what your options are. only you can select the best and act on it. that's the hardest part. ask yourself to decide, from a purely selfish point of view and without any thought to acting on it, which option you find most appealling. deep inside you probably already know what it is. now think about that option and ask yourself, why not? you'll see at least at few factors with which you are not comfortable. i suspect most of them have to do with someone elses' feelings. you may be concerned about people saying things like, "see, i knew it wouldn't work.", or, "she's a two time loser." , etc..you may be concerned with what your parents will say and what they'll think of you. you may think your children will suffer. i suspect your children want you to be happy and probably know how you feel now. there comes a time when you must forget about what other people think and consider only what's best for you and your children. i suggest you reconsider your vow to stay in the marriage through all the bad that can happen. when you made that vow, you couldn't see into the future and know had bad, bad can be. you're staying for the children, that's admirable. i believe you did your best, and used your best judgement in selecting a h. i would support a dicision to move on. again, your children want you to be happy and when you're not they too suffer. i believe when you're satisfied and happy, regardless of your socieoeconomic place, your children will be happier and healthier and that in turn will help you too.<BR>again, these are just my thoughts and i guess this is my disclammer of any responsibility. you know what, every counsilor should say the samething because it's true. they can't be responsible for how you feel and what you do. that's why you have to make the decision. like someone said, this is not a dress rehersal. this is the real thing. good luck!!

Frankie - <BR>I thought about what you said. You know, I went to counseling about 2 years ago regarding all this. My counselor said that only I could make the decision on what to do because he would NOT go to counseling to help US, he would NOT try to work on things, and it could damage my children from my previous marriage. She did go on to say that if I let this continue - I would start resenting "our" child together. I haven't (at all) and know that will NEVER happen. <P>But I know what option would be IDEAL ... and I wish it would happen - that is; I wish he would walk out that door on me. Just leave and never turn back. That would ease my heart, my mind and it would have been HIS choice and decision. It wouldn't come back to bite me. <P>But I can betcha, it just isn't going to happen. <P>I don't care about what "other" people think - I've been there and done that scene. My wonder is how the kids (especially his) would handle it. Our child LOVES that man to death and hangs all over him. My parents would support me, they trust my judgement; my two boys from my 10 yr marriage wouldn't give a flip - its the baby. <BR>What do I need him for? To cut the grass! Hmmm. I could get the boys to do it. Change the oil? Hmmm. I already do that since he never will. His income DOES help pay the bills and the nice house and pool. i can't get a second job because I run my kids around every night with school, sports, etc and want to be there for him. So, I guess the money is the only reason I need him. If I win the lottery I could ditch him. <BR>So see, if he walked on my, the options would be much easier! <P>By the way Frankie, hows your marriage?

cndy, thought you might ask that. i admit, i'm not practicing what i'm preaching. i have a fair marriage. my w loves me and wants to have sex. i'm not deeply in love with her and i think she knows it. we haven't being doing it since i moved back last march, except for once with a condom. i had forgotten how pointless it is having sex with a condom. eventhough she wants to do it, she doesn't because she wants me to take a std test first. i understand her concern. i'm in no particular hurry because i'm not very interested in doing it with her. i attribute this lack of desire to her gaining too much weight and because i now expect more out of sex after being with the ow. my w is my best friend. we get along well and share many interests. but, while i can have it and do it, i don't find it exciting enough to make me finish, if you know what i mean. i must admit too, that i probably would have divorced her but i didn't want to lose half of my retirement. i may not be satisfied but i'm not crazy. in a way i make my decision for the same reason you did (if i read your response correctly), i.e., economic. my w is a wonderful person. do you remember the song, constant craving? this relationship isn't fair to me or my w. this is the way it is though. my w even asked me if the retirment was what made me decide to come back. so here i am, trying to get comfortable in my rut and knowing someday i may have another affair. so now you know.

Frankie - <BR>Yeah, thats what it becomes. A rut. Though, the only thing I feel I differ from you is that I have "no desire" to have an affair or be with another man. I think it would be easier to take my kids and live life with them until they are grown enough and in college taking care of themselves in their lives. I don't want someone else in my life to complicate things, to have to commit time to other than my kids, to take care of if this one doesn't work out. I have learned to live happy thru my kids/school/sports and find my happiness in theirs. If I really look long and hard into the facts during the 3 years I was divorced - as rough as finances were for me - we were "happy" - me and the kids. We had no one to answer to, no one to have a schedule for - we did what we wanted to do all the time and we were free and happy! I thought a family structure would once again be good for my kids when I met my husband - but its proven to be the burden of our lives instead of the happiness he could bring us (if he could knock the darn chip off his shoulder). Me and the kids h ave a nice dinner every night and do our thing. Everyones happy till he comes home in his typical depressed mood. BLAH. Who needs someone that can only bring you down?

Geez Frankie, How would you feel if you were in your wife's shoes? Of course we don't know all the details, and maybe she's not doing her part to "win back" your love, but with the picture you paint, I'd advise your wife to to take a long hard look at things. Who wants to be second best, if that? Who wants to be a convenience? I'll try to be nice and not call you a jerk... but Frankie, shame on you! If you're here to try to save your marriage, then put your whole heart into it, and if you haven't already, let your wife know exactly what your needs are, so that if she really wants this recovery she'll at least have some clue how to do her part. <BR>

yy - <BR>I think Frankie is only being honest with us here - - I mean, how do you tell your wife "I'm not really deeply in love with you"? If thats the case - she ought to realize that herself - it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out - - actions speak louder than words. In my case, I don't think my husband is deeply in love with me either, but he hasn't said that. I hope he doesn't. I'd rather he give me another excuse. Thats just me though. My ex husband told me that he "didn't know how he felt about me anymore" before we split up and that was the most hurtful thing I ever heard and won't forget in my life. I still to this day wished he hadn't have said that to me after having 2 children together. Sorry, but thats just the way I feel. I personally, wouldn't tell someone that. But, it is a heartfelt truth of Frankies and we can't tell people not to say true things on this board. He's not hurting anyone here - but it would hurt his wife. I give him credit for not hurting her in that sense. Sometimes we have to read between the lines ourselves and choose to do what we have to do. I am struggling with that myself.

I guess I'm just looking at it from a different perspective, I guess I'd rather have the honesty and hear that and be able to move on than have someone not able or willing to meet my needs, but willing to "protect my feelings" while having an affair to meet their own needs? I'm not trying to be mean, I just don't understand? Sorry. In your case Cndy, I can understand the concern for the kids, and putting their needs first, although you might consider studying upon that some too... From counseling and reading I amd learning that even though our first instinct is to protect our kids emotionally at all costs, it may not be best for you or the kids in the long run. I'm just starting to contemplate this train of thought, so I'm not sure how much I buy it all either, but, it does make sense that if you derive ALL of your happiness from your kids, you may find yourself lost or unable to let go when they are grown, or even inhibit their emotional maturity. I'm terribly guilty of this right now, my daughter is 4 and is my life, but I know (in my head not in my actions yet) that I need to develop my own interests separate from her as well... whether my husband and I stay together or not. I'm just starting to read "The 7 Worst Things Parents Can DO" is is providing me more insight in this area that I've already been worried about. Again, I don't mean to be mean, just sharing some things that I am learning.<P>Best Wishes

yy, your post is interesting and makes me think about my actions. i had to think about this a while before responding. a 26 year marriage is a very long relationship and it's very difficult to appreciate how much good one derives from a relationship of that lenght. we take things for granted. we become so accoustomed to a life that we can not see all the good we get from it. i have my doubts about my relationship. i consider how we met, how and while we started living together and where my heart was when we married. i know how i felt with the ow and what that probably means, after reading all of dr. harleys writtings. i'm also aware of my constant cravings. all of these things are just too much to consider for me to make a qualified decision. because there is so much at stack, not the least of which is the value of a loving wife and her feelings, i cannot do something that will close the door to this option. my w suspects i do not love her as much as she loves me and has said as much. many months ago, after i announced my intention to seek a divorce and to carry on my affair while continuing to live with my w for practical reasons, i capitulated and told her i was going to break it off with the ow and try to make the marriage work.. my w jumped for joy and was just bounching off the walls. i told her then that i didn't think i could ever love her as she loves me. she replied that sometimes one person loves enough for two. so, i'm leaving the door open and giving my heart time to settle down and take a reading of how i feel until i feel more conviction, one way or the other. <BR>cndy, your position to stay in your relationship for practical reasons is not unusual. your feeling that you don't need an affair or another man in life to get in the way is also fairly normal in your situation. my ow was going through the divorce from hell. when i became involved with her, she wasn't looking for a man and told me had we not know each other and gotten involved through neutral activities, she would never have gotten involved with anyone. she was happy and busy with her two children. she's not involved with anyone now and i doubt she will for some time. she's just two busy taking care of her children. most men are not like that but, that's another subject.

We haven't spoken to each other since Tuesday morning. Monday morning he called me at work to apologize for jumping down my throat. Monday nite we were fine. Tuesday morning he made the comment about "I'm not looking for anything, I'm folding the "f**ing clothes". Since then, I haven't spoke to him; nor him to me. Its rather pleasant - but what a way to live. My son (15) is home from school today at the advice of local police/investigators due to an incident involving that Trenchcoat Mafia mess. Evidently there was a threat made at his high school and a hit list going around the internet with 15 athletes and cheerleaders names on it from the 9th grade. All my sons friends. My husband didn't acknowledge ANY of it and didn't ask why he was home today. Actually, no words were spoken. When he got to daycare - my friend asked him if my son was at home due to problem at school and he responsed to her "Beats me". She said to me - how can you deal with that attitude? I am beginning to wonder. He has a self inflicted problem and needs therapy. I don't know whether to make him have it as an option or just keep not talking as we are now.

Cndy,<P>There are a couple "absolute truths" that I have come to believe... I'm sure you've heard them before:<P>"You can not MAKE him do anything"<P>"If nothing changes, then nothing changes"<P>If you go on not speaking to each other, you may eventually drive yourself crazy if in fact inside you really are not "content" with this situation. You sound very strong and very "hardened". You may be able to go on for a long time just living life for yourself and your kids, and ingnoring him as best you can... but like you said, is this a life. But hey, at least he folds laundry! <P>But it is so much easier to give advice that you should be following yourself. I understnd how hard it is to really know what "right" to do. I am told that at some point you "just know", and that taking action is not so difficult... I'm not there yet.<P>I'll pray for son and your community, this whole mess with the shootings is so terrifying and senseless.<P>Take care and be safe. God Bless.

YY - - <BR>Thanks for your response. Its amazing that I moved where I did because of the "higher class" community and the schools my children would attend. Their high ratings, the lack of crime - etc, and this happens. I guess we can never tell who or what will happen. <BR>I think you are right - something will eventually happen that will make me snap and I will "know" its time to get out of the relationship or something will change to make it work. What I have "hardened" myself to was trying to talk to him, communicate with him, encourage counseling, writing him letters - because after 7 years of doing so - none have I got responses from. I mean, how many times do you try? He probably thinks "what a witch - not speaking to me" but why would I when I know that speaking to him would cause a response and that response (9 times out of 10) will be a smart alec response. Its setting myself up for injury - so I've learned my lesson there. He is coldhearted and stubborn and I feel and know in my heart that neither of us would be willing to give up our house, property, and contents. I won't - and don't feel he will. I would fight for custody - he would want it too. We're batting zero without hitting. I gave up a home that my children and I shared before due to divorce and I won't lose that for them again. If he goes, fine - but I will not leave my childrens home. I work, I pay for it and I will not give it up. I think he feels the same way. I searched my heart and soul last nite for the reasons this may have happened and I remember when we met and married. He was in a bad financial situation - had filed a bankruptcy and essentially had nothing. He had a good job and made good pay but had no material assets other than his home. I on the other hand, had a good job, made as much money as him, had cash to buy a home I was getting ready to buy, etc. I think he married me for my money and to help him financially. Thats what I feel now because as I think back, I remember - two months after we married he wanted a boat so bad. I financed one for him thru our credit union (he had no credit) - then he wanted a new truck (I financed thru credit union) - he payed the bills for them (as well as me) - but I was the one able to get credit. Maybe he never loved me and thats why he is the way he is now.