This is my first time posting here but I've been lurking many boards these last few days in search of advice, other people's experiences, anything that could shed some light on my situation. I must have posted my story all over cyberspace trying to find answers, when ultimately it boils down to what's inside of me. But none the less, it's always good to get other viewpoints. So here's my story in a nutshell.<P>My h and I have been separated for 1 1/2 years due to his affair. He wanted a divorce and pretty much moved on with his life with the ow. During this time, I've been to hell and back getting my life together. Now that I'm making strides he's questioning everything. <P>I've been dating the last couple of months and have been intimate with other men. In my heart and mind, my marriage was over so there really was no commitment I had to honor anymore. We got the final divorce papers and guess what threw me for a loop - my h doesn't want to push it through. What the heck is going on?

Yes, I would call that cheating. I'm not standing on or thumping the bible but the fact remains that in the eyes of God you are a married woman. But that is all subject to your beliefs and your relationship to your higher power.<P>Just my opinion. <P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LostHusband:<BR><B>Yes, I would call that cheating. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks for your opinion. I don't necessarily agree but I can see your point. My question now is what do I do? My h doesn't want this divorce yet but we haven't talked about getting back together. I guess the first thing that needs to go is the OW and he hasn't expressed any interest of letting her go. On my end, I don't see the need to stop my life simply because of a piece of paper. Why do I feel like I'm going back on the rollercoaster ride?<BR>

So you're post really has two issues:<P>1) Your dating and intimacy with other men: Yes, what you did was cheating (and I think you know that, or you wouldn't have asked). You are still married, regardless of what you "feel" like or how "over" you think the marriage is. It isn't over until it's over....in all ways, IMHO.<P>2) Your H doesn't want to push the divorce thru: So what does that mean? Have you spoken to him about it? WHY doesn't he want to push the divorce thru? What does he want? What do you want?<P>Anyway, that's my short-n-sweet answer....<P>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Mrs.O (edited July 05, 2001).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mrs.O:<BR><B>1) Your dating and intimacy with other men: Yes, what you did was cheating (and I think you know that, or you wouldn't have asked). You are still married, regardless of what you "feel" like or how "over" you think the marriage is. It isn't over until it's over....in all ways, IMHO.</B><P>Opinion noted however I disagree, respectfully.<P><B>2) Your H doesn't want to push the divorce thru: So what does that mean? Have you spoken to him about it? WHY doesn't he want to push the divorce thru? What does he want? What do you want?</B><P>I don't know what it means that my h doesn't want to finish the divorce. I spoke to him about it but the only answer I've been given was that he's confused about what he wants. As for what I want, I'm thinking about that very carefully. I never wanted this divorce but didn't really have a choice considering my h left for the OW and said he didn't want the marriage anymore. So I accepted that our relationship was over and tried to rebuild my life. In the beginning I wanted to be with my h, but now I'm not so sure.

Well, I can certainly relate to your second statement. I've been separated from my H for 1-1/2 yrs. also due to his affair and have consciously moved on with my life (although no divorce has been filed). So after all the hardship, turmoil and pain of putting him out of my heart, my head, my life....it would sure be hard to even WANT to let him back in.<P>If you disagree with all of us that what you did was cheating, why did you ask the question to start with? Are you only looking for validation for what you did, now that it's done and you can't do anything about it? <P>It's possible that is WAS cheating and yet you still can be forgiven for that....you don't have to seek to classify it as NOT cheating just to feel better....<P>Anyway, I'm very curious why you asked the question....<P>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<P>(PS Also....when the wedding vows say "forsaking all others..." and you DON'T forsake all others (regardless of what he did)...how can you not call that cheating?)<p>[This message has been edited by Mrs.O (edited July 05, 2001).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mrs.O:<BR><B>If you disagree with all of us that what you did was cheating, why did you ask the question to start with? Are you only looking for validation for what you did, now that it's done and you can't do anything about it? </B><P>No I'm not looking for validation. I just wanted to get opinions. From what I've found, it's a 50/50 split. Some think it is, some don't. Just curiousity is all.<P>

Emptyheart, <P>In my honest opinion here, being physically intimate with someone other than your spouse while still married does constitute cheating. PERIOD. However, my point of view is not Gospel, it’s just how I feel. What is important here is how YOU view your situation and how YOU have justified it.<P>When my (ex)wife moved out, the chances of reconciliation for us was pretty slim. She made it very clear that she wanted a divorce and she left. Throughout the “waiting” period before the divorce became final, I had opportunities to stray, but I didn’t. I even had family members and close friends telling me that I no longer needed to remain faithful and if the only stopping me from being involved elsewhere was a piece of paper giving me permission, that I really didn’t need to wait. In my case, I never knew if I was dealing with infidelity or not, but I wanted my marriage to work and therefore I was not willing to “cheat” just in case she changed her mind. With my beliefs and my convictions, it wasn’t worth it to me. Now if I had known that she WAS out sleeping around, then I may feel differently about it. I guess I’ll never know.<P>Just out of curiosity, does your husband know of your “experiences” over the past year and a half? I only ask that to find out if he views that as cheating or not? When it comes down to it, HIS opinion is the one that is going to matter. I have seen on situations like yours on several occasions and each time, the husband went ballistic when he found out that his wife had been unfaithful AFTER he had moved in with OW. It sounds ridiculous I know, but wayward spouses have a way of justifying their own behavior, then transferring blame to their spouse once they learn that have been cheated on as well. I don’t know if it is an ego thing or a pride thing, but it will generally happen this way.<P>If you truly intend to rebuild your marriage and are willing to work at it being successful, I believe that your husband must be told of your affairs. Who knows, this information alone may clear his confusion very quickly…..in either direction. Whatever you decide to do, I wish you the best.<BR>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jayhawk 93:<BR><B>Just out of curiosity, does your husband know of your “experiences” over the past year and a half? I only ask that to find out if he views that as cheating or not?</B> <P>Jayhawk,<P>If I had any hope of reconciliation with my h, I wouldn't have dated anyone at all. That was a risk I wasn't willing to take. But, that wasn't the case. Everytime I told him to make a choice, he would always stay with her because "he wasn't ready to leave". So I gave up and worked on myself for the past year and a half. I only started dating a couple of months ago and no, my h doesn't know of my experiences so I don't know his view. At this point, I don't think what I do with my life is any of his business. <P><B>If you truly intend to rebuild your marriage and are willing to work at it being successful, I believe that your husband must be told of your affairs. Who knows, this information alone may clear his confusion very quickly…..in either direction. Whatever you decide to do, I wish you the best.</B><P>We haven't even discussed reconciling. I'm not even sure I want to anymore. And then the question is if we do talk about it, should I tell him what I've been doing? I don't know whether I would.

Well, I've been separated almost three years now. My husband is still with the OW. My divorce is moving at a snail's pace since for whatever reason, he doesn't want it (even though he's completely unremorseful and still with OW). I actively date and don't consider myself married. I can relate to your story completely.<P>My opinions are strong on this topic. I don't even think it's close to cheating. The marriage is over by your husband's hand. If by some miracle he changes his mind, it's for him to work through dealing with whatever you did when he abandoned your marriage. It is a direct, natural and logical consequence of his behavior that you moved on with your life.<P>There is a legal issue here. Technically, it's adultery since your divorce is not final. But very few people in the real world would consider your actions adulterous. I love MB but the community at this site is not representative of the population in general. We are mostly betrayed spouses, many with strong religious convictions. We abhor adultery because it nearly destroyed many of us.<P>Last point. Big deal, so he doesn't want to push it through. You read my first paragraph about my life. It means nothing. It's just getting close to the end so he has to accept that he really is losing something permanently as a result of his actions. So, if you're willing to let him have you both indefinitely, that's probably just fine with him. Until he's ready to end things definitively with the OW, commit to doing what's necessary to restore trust, and gratefully attempt to understand and meet your emotional needs, there is no basis to hope for marital recovery.<P>I think you should continue doing what you've been doing. If you want a divorce, you push it through. If you're not sure, continue to move on with your life until you are sure. After this much time, odds decrease of him coming back. More importantly, you have to ask yourself why you would even want him back. It was a major turning point in my own life when I started looking at my husband and saw nothing at all redeeming in him. It took about two years to drain my lovebank, but once it was depleted, there was no bringing it back.<P>Sorry for the monologue. It just touched a nerve.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by emptyheart:<BR><B>We haven't even discussed reconciling. I'm not even sure I want to anymore. And then the question is if we do talk about it, should I tell him what I've been doing? I don't know whether I would.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is a tough one and confusing all at the same time. What confuses me the most is that if the two of you are not discussing reconciling AND your husband is still with the OW, then why in the world has he stopped the divorce? I know you don't have an answer for that one either, but that just does not make sense. It sounds like your life is a bit in limbo at the moment which would absolutely drive me insane! I feel for you.<P>If you do talk about reconciling, then I feel that you would have to be honest with your husband and let him know that you have had relations elsewhere during your time apart. You shouldn't have to disclose everything about your life over the past year or so, but your "new" marriage should not be based on lies either. If you don't tell him about the relationships in the beginning, they will come back to bite you down the road. They always do.<P>Coming out here and posting about this subject was a risky thing for you to do. Although we all mean well out here, talks surrounding the moral aspects of infidelity generally are not received well and some of the discussions tend to get "heated" to say the least. Thanks for not getting overly defensive when you are told something that you don't necessarily agree with. <P>I'm sorry you are here, but welcome aboard <P>

Distressed,<P>Thanks for your post. Yes we are in similar situations and yet neither one of us can concretely give a reason why the divorce has been going so slow. I will probably push forward with the divorce but for myself, I want to take a little time to make sure that I'm all for this, like you said. I thought I was until my h halted it, that got me thinking a little. However, the fact that he hasn't left the ow or even talked about reconciling brings up warning signs again.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jayhawk 93:<BR><B> If you do talk about reconciling, then I feel that you would have to be honest with your husband and let him know that you have had relations elsewhere during your time apart. </B><P>This one is truly a difficult one for me. I agree with your point but I just don't know. I guess I'll cross the bridge when I come to it.<P><B>Thanks for not getting overly defensive when you are told something that you don't necessarily agree with. </B><P>That's how you learn about life, asking questions from others and making your own opinions from that. <P>

Aside from moral or religious theories, the law says it is adultery... so technically it is just that.<BR>My H and I separated and he IMMEDIATELY decided he should be "dating" (having sex with) other women and on my divorce papers to him, adultery was one of the many charges because of his choice, even if it did occur after separation. <P>Now that we are attempting reconciliation it's a battle of semantics. He thinks he is fully justified of his actions... while I disagree. It's become a major issue hindering intimacy since I don't know who he's been with, how many, or even if it still continues. (He travels extensively) I have too many unanswered questions for intimacy to be resumed, so the wall stays up for now. <P>

This is one of those topics I should avoid, but I have pretty strong feelings about it, so....<P>The persons opinion you should worry about most, is your's. If you are comfortable with what you are doing and where you are at in this process, then it's right for you. Only you can decide that.<P>There are some here who would categorize your behavior as the same as the WS. That's the one that torches me most.<P>Technically, yep it's cheating. But, it's not the same as running around on your unsuspecting spouse. And that's an important distinction, to me.<P>Take care & remember, opinions vary. Pay heed to yours first and foremost, 'cause in the final analysis, it's the one that matters.<P><nick pulls on his asbestos underwear in anticipation of the sanctimonious flames ><BR><P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

<BR>Here is my gut feeling.<P>He was not having any problems with getting on with HIS life. He figured you would be there to fall back on if things with OW didn't work out.<P>Chances are he's seen that you are moving on with your life, content without him, and that's a threat to his backup plan.<P>I wouldn't entertain any of his ideas about not going through with the divorce unless he gives you solid plans re: counseling, reconciliation, severing all ties with OW, etc. You both need to put down on the table what your needs are.<P>My STBX and I were past the point of no return, separated and papers filed before I became intimate with someone else, but since we are not legally divorced, yes I'm cheating - committing adultery - whatever you want to call it - and yes I've had some interesting conversations with God about all this. Over the past year I've questioned this path He seems to have in place before me, and asked Him if I'm taking the right turns at times.<P>When it comes down to it, what matters is how YOU feel about the choices you are making. I've been wrestling with myself for months.

Yeah- I'd call it "cheating" (adultery), since legally and biblically it is (I’m assuming “intimate” means “having sex”). Even if you feel like the marriage is over, it’s fornication, which isn’t too good either. I’m not a saint- I’ve dealt with issues like this myself, but I try to think about “doing the right thing”. Complications such as this are why God intended sexual relations to be within a marriage. I know- he did it first, and I’m sure there are many other issues.<BR>Is it really over? You both seem to have doubts, and now some additional issues. <BR>I’d be suspect of the men that would be sexually intimate with you while you were still married, regardless of whether you’re technically or almost divorced. I would have more respect for you than that.<BR>I’m a divorced guy, and personally, I would never even THINK about getting involved with a separated woman, if for this reason alone.<BR>I give you credit for hanging in there as long as you did.<BR>Take what you like...<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T-L-C:<BR><B>My STBX and I were past the point of no return, separated and papers filed before I became intimate with someone else, but since we are not legally divorced, yes I'm cheating - committing adultery - whatever you want to call it - and yes I've had some interesting conversations with God about all this. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>TLC,<P>So where are you in the process? Are you still with your STBX and does he know about your OP?<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by emptyheart:<BR><B> <BR>TLC,<BR>So where are you in the process? Are you still with your STBX and does he know about your OP?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Haven't been 'with' my STBX since I left his abusive @$$ back in December. I moved out and he filed the next day. He knows about the OM because he and his mommy interrogate the children during his parenting time. <P>Yes, I break another one of the 'rules' most of the people here agree on, and let the kids see me with the OM. They NEVER take second place to him, I ask THEM if they want to see him before I make any plans. (They adore him.) Also, he has a daughter who is close to their age, and we spend time together when we can. His daughter likes me too. I'm not sure what she thinks about our relationship, although I found out she told her mom that her dad and I were going to get married! (No, we don't have wedding plans. We are taking things very slow.)<P>Between December and May, the kids only saw me with friends, male and female. Although young, they needed time to adjust to the fact that mommy and daddy were NOT going to get back together, and that mommy DID have friends (although daddy never wanted me to spend any time with my friends) and was happy for the first time in years.<P>BUT, there was never an inkling of a chance that my STBX and I would reconcile. I may be in the wrong for being hard-hearted towards him, but living with years of abuse and hearing "I'll NEVER do it again" over and over, I had ENOUGH.<P>I didn't plan on getting involved with someone so soon. I had wanted to wait until the divorce was final at least. But God brings people into your life at times you don't expect.<BR>

JW,<P>Thanks for your input. Again, I've had a 50/50 response rate on this and it boils down to what I believe. Like I said earlier, if I would have known that there would be a chance, I wouldn't have done anything.