How <B>exactly</B> is that supposed to help?<P>The things you say have some merit...but we are talking about an extremely fragile situation here, that will not be served in a positive way by that.<P>This is what I was referring to above. No, that is not Christian at all, not even close! Agape love is love <B>without</B> expectation. None of us here are at the point that <B>insisting</B> on things like that will work. I'm not saying to let him back with all of his baggage...its his job to talk about/fix that. The attitude I'm seeing on this board att is one of pushing all of it back on the WAS...do you really think that is realistic? It sounds like self delusion to me...absolutely not Christian in any way.<P>I am not judging anyone...but I've been here long enough to know that that will drive him right back out, most likely for good. What are we working for? Are we considering the WAS at all? Would any of us be able to accept that if the roles were reversed?<P>This is just sad. -Mike

Mike,Started DK thread so everyone else could skip over it. Also, didn't want to interfere with this thread as it is important to me to get your input and others about my situation. Forgive me ladies but sometimes I would much rather "see" things from a male point of view. I generally connect better that way. <P>Laura, I agree with part of what you said in that I know my H and I must both agree to work on things and the solutions should be mutually beneficial. However, I have asked WITFM? and my answer was clear: the continuation of my marriage. When I let anger and resentment rule my life, I was not proud of who I was. This had nothing to do with him but all with me and how I react to conflict. For many years I have struggled with finding a cure for my "doormat syndrome". God truly works in mysterious ways. Tonight I decided to clean out a junk cabinet in the kitchen as it was pouring rain outside. In this cabinet, I find the Boundaries book and workbook that other threads mentioned. I simply said, ok God I'm listening. I cannot allow myself to become selfish and blame everything on my H. I have played the emotional blame game too much lately. The fact is I love my husband and will try whatever it takes to be patient until he can come to terms with the effort having a marriage and family is. That way I have no regrets. I told him in a letter that I would love him and emotionally support him if he needed but I would no longer pressure him. If our marriage is to have a chance, I have to know he has decided to work on it for the right reasons, not because I made him feel guilty or pressured him to do it. I need honesty and openness more than any other EN at this time. Of course a little SF wouldn't be bad either but that will have to wait......<BR>L

You know, part of my ruminating about what kind of man I am involves the 'sacred nature' of the bathroom...what's up with that? I never understood it!<P>H will return to a place that he considers 'safe'.<P>Maybe, you put a magazine rack in the bathroom...subscribe to a couple of his favorite mags (in his name), and leave the current issues in there...and wait until he has a 'need'. It would be interesting to note his reaction! -Mike

<small>[ August 06, 2004, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: laura_lee ]</small>

Well, I guess I have to say it again, then....agape love is without expectation...anger and boundaries are different issues altogether...if you withhold love based on that...there is no point in continuing. Separate the realtionship proper from the behavior of the individuals...and yes, Jesus said, and meant just that.<BR>You are confusing other types of love with agape love...remember that there are 5 types.<BR>You are also getting into abuse topics...which I have sworn off discussing because I know of no one that has been on the receiving end of that able to look at it in a constructive manner. That's not a slam...just that it is too close to the core for people to get any kind of perspective on. -Mike<p>[This message has been edited by waiting_for_her (edited July 21, 2001).]

Yo Mike!<P>I like your mag idea. <P>Love,<P>Laura

LL...thanks...no, I mean <B>thanks</B>.

Mike, if you are still logged on, please read my new post. It is long but I need some help. You seem to always set me straight. I promise I'm not getting too dependent on you but I've had a bad bad bad day. L

Mike,<P>I just read your response to SBALLPLYR and it could have easily been written for me. Please pray for me too as I attempt to let go and let God. I am truly sorry I am so needy but then again, if someone wasn't a basketcase from time to time, great and supportive people like you would have little use for your people skills. God has truly blessed you with the gift of encouragement. Simply put, you are an amazing person who brings great joy and comfort to hurting souls. The most amazing thing is that you always remind us to turn back to God and allow Him to carry these burdens. I thank God for you and for all the others here in the place. I think I can rest now. L

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BrambleRose:<BR><B>Hi peoplepleaser:<P>I am going to be rather strong in my opinions right now. I don't want you to take it as a personal attack ok? Take what you like, leave the rest!!!!<P>As I read your post, the first thing that went through my head is that you</B> are responsible for the problems that you are experiencing right now.<P> Yes, you need to get into counseling to determine how to draw boundaries that are to protect yourself, rather than to manipulate or control your H. It's very hard to learn how to do this, thats why I suggest counseling. When I first learned to draw boundaries, I did them all wrong. I used boundaries to try to force outcomes and reactions. I used them to manipulate others into doing what I wanted. <P>Instead, you need to learn how to let go of other people, and protect yourself. You need to learn how to fill YOUR OWN needs first, before you can expect or ask your H to start filling them.<P>Your H isn't going to "fight" for you or your marriage. Why should he? For years, you've been running your marriage, and his life. He hasn't been forced to deal with life on life's terms, you've protected him from it all. As a result, he hasn't had to "grow up". He's a little kid that wants what he wants and isn't interested in responsiblity. Why would he fight for something that you have already given him? It's your fears that are ruling your decision making. Your fear of being abandoned is causing you to give him all of the benefits of marriage without requiring that he do the work first!<P>You can't fix your H right now. The best thing you can do for your marriage is to work on your issues. You have quite a few. I can't imagine that your H would be interested in working on the marriage with you acting the way you are. Let him go, focus on you.<P>((((hugs))))<P><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Boy, have I heard this one before BR. People pleaser....you know what? I believe it was BR who wrote me almost the very same, perceptive post when I was at the throes of rejection as you are now.<P>She was right.<P>Dead on.<P>I havent read throught the entirety of this post, so please forgive me if your situation has changed.<P>It took me what, maybe 3-4 months of coming here and getting my head pounded into reality to "get it".<P>We will love you and support you even when you will feel their is no one else.<P>PLEASE!!!!<P>Dont 'weed out' the sugestions to get your man back. Its not a game. Its ALL about you. Promise. NOTHING would change my dear H mind about leaving me. Not even his mom. I plan A'd. At first with my own altenative motives.<P>Honey, it was ONLy when I began to change for MYSELF did he take notice.<P>Guess what? He gave up OW, recommitted himself to me, and I would venture to say albeit the painful memories, we are happier now.<P>Think about it. <P>this site isnt here just to shoot the crap. we all have some very hard-earned wisdom to share. Focus, as hard as it is to, and apply the wisdom shared here to yourself. (Not your marraige)<P>We are all rooting for ya.<P>Dara

Well...shame on me for reading top to bottom! Its in your newer thread.<P>BTW, now I am tired again! You really did a lot of yardwork, there!<P>Last night I went to visit my friends that own a restaurant/bar in town. I got my XW to agree (she actually had other plans) not to go there, and OM wasn't there, either, so I was able to just visit for a while. They gave me an excellent prime rib dinner...I was stuffed! I came home, and just slept....a lot! I made a few mistakes, but generally speaking, I got it right! We talked some about general things, but we also talked about my XW, and her new friends. They seem to think that it is starting to come home a little to her...she is respecting boundaries much better now, and admits that she is not treating me fairly, but only when I point it out...which I need to stop doing.<P>Its a little odd, but I saw lots to be encouraged about in your posts in the other thread. Working together, and eating together is a good way to make Love Bank deposits, I sure wish I had the same opportunity with my XW. I did offer to let her dry her clothes here, which she is going to take me up on. Now, I have to power clean my basement, because it is a major LB for her going into my workshop...very messy, and disorganized....that must change.<P>You seem to be very detail oriented, and observant. You also have the ability to surmise that which you do not know...That is, you have the ability to draw conclusions based on incomplete information. That's great, until you use it to infer negative outcomes....that's the birth of those self-fulfilling prophecies I yak about all the time. (Like the Waffle House, I'm pretty sure that's what happened there.) I know...I did the very same thing at my last job, which hurt me in a lot of ways, not the least of which was that internal....'see, I <B>knew</B> that would happen! dialog. Yes, it hurts to be right there, but I had a major hand in it before and after the fact.<P>As stupid as it may sound, the prostrating myself on the floor, and giving it to God thing is a really effective tool in that.<P>I have said this before, but I will say it again...thinking about making it my signature...<BR>I'd rather be positive and wrong, than negative and right.<P>I am busy programming the forms for my bankruptcy, and getting ready to post them up to my website for people in my situation...no money to pay a lawyer to fill them out! ($800 BTW....if I had that, I'd pay my electric bill...hello?)<P>Take care...I will be back later tonight...and I am praying for you. -Mike