I'll try to make it as short as poss.--<BR>I'm 28/F married 4 years now. I left a 1 1/2 yr relationship for my husband. It had turned abusive. Prior to that one, I was married for 3 (yrs)and had 2 kids. Try not to get confused K? I now have 2 kids with new H and a ton of issues to resolve. First is that I keep having affairs with my ex. At first, I still was in love, but now, it's just a scapegoat. Also I had my first kid at 19, so you can see where I'm going. I have been so bogged down with responsibility since day one. I never got to live the "roaring 20's" going out, meeting people, just that time where you're supposed to figure out what you want from life. (If that's even true) Anyway, I don't feel I was ever in love with my H, how could I be if I keep seeing my ex?? And my H knows about all the affairs, and we've talked and seen counsel ect.. ect.. Yet I keep doing it, and he (My H) keeps letting me back in and wanting to work it out. Of course I say I want to work it out, cause I have kids. I've never been on my own, I always depend on a man to help me (like my mother did). I really feel like there is not much left to work on all the flames of love and passion are gone. Talk only turns to anger and leads no where. I am borderline on leaving. I can't go cause I don't want to divorce twice, and I worry bout the kids.....But am severly depressed now, and this doesn't even mention other things that we all know are part of it like finances, ect... I think about working it out, but don't imagine how could I work on something I don't have to begin with?? It's all jumbled up in my head. I read a lot of the articles and posts here and there is good info. Some of it helps me to understand more of what I'm wanting or expecting from marriage/ life in general too. I know a big issue for me is affection. My H and I almost never have good conversation. Well, that said go from there. I mean that is the basis right? how do you possibly hold down a relationship if you can't communicate???

Well I know where you are coming from here. I to have not had in love feelings for hubby for awhile now. I am like you stay for kids sake and because scared.<BR> Afraid of making wrong decision here also. I am at a loss in my life and have been for over a year now. I feel I need to let him go for his sake and mine. I have tryed to restore the feelings I once had for him but I cannot find them. I have been reading these posts for sometime now. And I see alot of other men and women are in the same boat as I am. My feelings for you are if you keep going back to ex he is filling a need you do not find with hubby. In my case its like we are two different people and we just drifted apart. They say you can get that spark back but its hard to get back when your not sure if it was ever really there. I believe in my heart couples do change and drift apart. No matter how hard they try you cannot force feelings that just are not there. I don't know if this is helping you at all. But when I read your post I saw myself in certain ways. I am glad of one thing to know I am not alone in whats going on in my married life. I just take it one day at a time knowing it will come to me one day. I know in time what I have to do to make myself happy again. Thanks for listening.

sunshine,<P>The roaring twenties are highly overrated. My thirties have been much more exciting (good and bad). I'm really looking forward to my forties, and I'll be complaining about how boring the "seventies" were when I'm 85.<P>I'm guessing that you had enough love for your husband at one time to marry him. Some of that probably was "circumstances". Love is a conditional response. You've changed now, and you're not in love with your husband because he hasn't changed with you. But he can---you just have to do it together.<P>You've found good information in this site. Great. I'd also recommend that you buy the books "Surviving an Affair" and "Give and Take" from this site. You've begun to identify needs that your husband isn't meeting. That's part of the process. But it's a bit further down the road than where you are now.<P>First thing you must do is eliminate your ex from your life. As long as you keep having affairs, you're destroying any chance your husband and you have for happiness. It's going to be tough with the kids, but he can be involved in their lives while having nothing to do with you. You have to make it that way.<P>The next thing is that you and your husband need to learn the skills for a sucessful marriage. The Rule of Protection (eliminate lovebusters), Rule of Care (meet needs), Rule of Time (quality time with each other), and Rule of Honesty (complete honesty) cover this. They're on this site, and it's covered in Dr. Harley's books in more detail. I'm sure that if you and your husband were dedicated to learning these skills over a year or so period, you would have a marriage that you never dreamed possible. It takes time and effort, but the results are worth it. This I have experienced first-hand.<P>I'd suggest that you try phone-counseling through Marriage Builders. It's apparent to me that your counseling hasn't been successful at all, and you need to try a different approach. Steve Harley is the counselor at MB, and he's done an excellent job with me and my marriage. I think that your marital problems are too serious to fix on your own. Sunshine, it appears to me that most of your marital problems center around a lack of "skills" at what it takes to be in a successful marriage. It's not that your husband is "the wrong guy". Its that you (and he) don't know how to make a marriage work. If you don't learn that, every marriage that you have down the line will fail too. You might as well start working on this one---it'll be the most important thing that you can do for yourself, and your children. <p>[This message has been edited by K (edited April 29, 1999).]

Thanks K for all your insight. I just wanted to correct you on the part about my ex. He is not the father of my first 2 children, either way you are right that I need to cut him out. He does fill a void for me, I've always known that. My H and I had a good talk this morning. I had told him it's obvious we can't work this out on our own. Each time this situation arises, we go about trying to solve it the same way we did before. Which gets us nowhere. I feel strongly though that I am not "in love" I wonder If I ever was. This is so very tough, some days it is overwhelming me. I can't imagine how or why someone would want to put out so much effort to make it work, if they were not happy there to begin with? I know my H loves me very much and wants more than anything to keep it together. Believe me I do too, but I want to do it for the RIGHT reasons. Not only because I am scared to be on my own or cause of how it affects the kids. Look at the post by confused58 titled "not in love" his wife waited 20 years to tell him this. I don't know all the details of his life, but I know that I don't want to spend my lifetime being "cordial" to my H. When I went through this exact thing with my first H, I had the same feelings and it was always cause of the kids that I stayed. One day I just decided if I am not happy how can I make them happy? How can I teach them whats right? I don't believe in a right or wrong answer. Just what you feel in your heart. And unfortunatly my heart doesn't feel for my H. My biggest mistake after my first marriage, was getting involved too quickly in another relationship. If I decide to go this time, I will know what I need to do differently. Thanks for listening.

Sunshine,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I know my H loves me very much and wants more than anything to keep it together. Believe me I do too, but I want to do it for the RIGHT reasons. Not only because I am scared to be on my own or cause of how it affects the kids. Look at the post by confused58 titled "not in love" his wife waited 20 years to tell him this. I don't know all the details of his life, but I know that I don't want to spend my lifetime being "cordial" to my H. When I went through this exact thing with my first H, I had the same feelings and it was always cause of the kids that I stayed. One day I just decided if I am not happy how can I make them happy? How can I teach them whats right? I don't believe in a right or wrong answer. Just what you feel in your heart. And unfortunatly my heart doesn't feel for my H. My biggest mistake after my first marriage, was getting involved too quickly in another relationship. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>What if I told you that you don't need to worry about all the stuff you're worrying about? If you just "do like I say", you won't feel this way in a year. You'll be in love with your husband!<P>I was in a similar situation with my wife. She fell out of love with me---partly because I wasn't meeting her needs, and partly becuase I was using "lovebusters" in an attempt to get my needs met. She found herself in an affair---she "realized" that she had married me for the wrong reasons. She never loved me "passionately". She didn't know why she was with me. She loved what the OM was doing for her.<P>We went through "hell". I immediately used the counseling here (a TREMENDOUS HELP). I changed my ways---but my wife couldn't end the affair. I separated from her and my children for a few months. I moved back home after she became pregnant by the OM. I took care of her and the kids while she "made" the decision to stay with me. Not because she loved me---but because that was her DECISION (the OM started to show his "true" colors too). That decision was based on family and kids. <P>That child was born 4 months ago. We've been working on our marriage---"us" for the last 9 months, and me for the last 18. Guess what---although our marriage isn't a "10" yet, it's a "9". My wife loves me. Deeply.<P>You two can do the same, Sunshine. The right reason to do this is because of your kids, and your marriage vows. That doesn't mean that you should live in a "barely surviving" marriage with no passion. Not at all. You need to learn the skills to find that love and passion again. This isn't a "one-in-a-million" kind of thing: the two of you have the capacity to do this for each other. You have the capacity to be each other's greatest source of happiness. You also have the ability to be each other's greatest source of pain.<P>Choose the happiness. Learn these skills. Get the help you need to do it---there are lots of great resources available. The first step for you is to completely terminate the affair---it was the first for my wife. No matter how "perfect" a husband I was, I wasn't able to have a big effect on her until the affair was over. It took her 9 months, a separation, a pregnancy to make that decision---things I couldn't have ever imagined going through. But even through all that, we've been successful. You can too.

Wow K I have to give you a big round of applause!! That is more than I ever care to go through. But why should it be that I expell all that effort to make it work. I thought love was natural. If I felt like I needed to work at it, then I almost would say I feel forced to do something I'm not happy doing. I don't know what the right answer is and that's why I posted here. Not to find answers either, but to talk out my emotions.

sunshine,<P>whether you decide to stay with your husband or not, one thing you must eventually come to grips with is that making love last does take work. Falling "in love" does seem easy and natural, staying "in love" and allowing love to grow and deepen takes work and committment, through the good times and the bad. If you want real, deep, comfortable, ever-after love, you and whoever your partner ends up to be will have to want it and "work" at it together. This is a concept I truly wish my husband could understand, it's a concept I didn't fully appreciate in my "20's".<P>Good luck and God Bless.

Sunshine:<P>When you first fall in love, it is "natural". What you've done is through "dumb luck" found someone who's meeting your needs. You like that, and you reciprocate. Love blossoms. That's the beginning part of a relationship.<P>What happens with marriage is that you start getting real responsibilities. Kids, finances, jobs, all the "real world" stuff. You change. Your spouse changes.<P>If you don't "put the effort" into learning these skills and learning to love your husbnad, what's going to happen to you? You'll find a guy, fall in love, and then get divorced in a few years. Again. And again. Until you finally figure this out. You be setting an example for your children that hopping in and out of marriage is "OK"---this will be a pattern that they will likely repeat. You're here, and you're discussing this, so that's a very encouraging step. <P>These behaviors that you (and your husband) need to develop will seem like "work". They'll seem "forced" at first. But within 6-9 months, they'll become part of a new, better you. And they'll enhance your marriage in ways that you didn't think possible. And they'll keep your family intact. Your children will experience what a responsible, loving marriage should be like. And you'll find yourself "happy"---it will be a deeper, more meaningful happiness, because it won't be centered solely around your needs.<P>It's not hard to accomplish this at all, and it's truly worth the effort. And you should make that effort now, with your husband. I bet you can make this marriage great---but even if you don't and you end up divorcing him, you'll end up better for having gone through this process.

Sunshine,<P> I have been reading the posts that have come back since I wrote mine. I am like you I feel that if you love someone you should not have to find it. You should be able to feel it. I have been married for almost 15 years now. We drifted apart over a year ago. Like I said earlier you cannot force feelings that are just not there. I forgot in this time what feeling in love really felt like. I went into depression after awhile with all this also. It did help me come do grips with resentment feelings I had for hubby but had them more for myself for letting things go on for so long. I kept my mouth shut for years and swept things under the rug so to speak. I feel I am in black hole and I want to see the light at the end of it. I don't know if ya understand what I am saying here or not but thought ya might feel the same in some ways. I did not get married as young as you did . But at times I wonder if I married for all the right reasons. I agree with what you said about if your not happy your kids see that. So I say make yourself happy because I intend to real soon. I know that my feelings cannot change . Gosh knows I have tryed. They all say go with your heart. So in time I will. Good Luck

sunshine, you've been given a lot of good advice in the responses to your post. i want to add some of my thoughts. i was married the first time at 19 and my w had just turned 16. as a matter of fact, she was 15 when we applied for our license. but the marriage lasted 6 years. in retrospect i'm inclined to say there should be a law against that sort of thing but then again i don't believe we should legislate morality. it was my decision and that's that. two months after she and i broke up, i met my current wife. i lived alone, outside of my parents house only 2 months. my current w and her two children then moved in with me. we had just began to be intimate, she lost her job and suggested she move in with me. i couldn't say no. i wish i had. after living together for 2 years, she started pressing me to either marry her or she was moving out. i didn't want to marry her but felt bad about breaking off the relationship. i don't know where my reluctance to break off the relationship came from. maybe it was fear of being alone, hurting someone who clearly loved me, or a fear i couldn't find anyone that would love me more. it didn't occur to me how important it was for me to love that person. i can recall asking my friend what i should do. he advised me i needed to make a commetment. so i did. for 26 years i've marveled at our marriage and how good it looked. i've also had that constant craving to have the right one to love. i never fell in love with my w. there was never a time when i woke up thinking of her. we got married out of convinence. my w, on the other hand has always said that after divorcing her first husband she would never marry another man unless she loved him, regardless of what he did or who he was. so she fell in love with me. and now, here we are. my marriage is probably an example of what you are now trying to excape and avoid. one thing is certain. you should live alone at least 2 years before getting into any kind of serious relationship. you need to get to know yourself as an individual and learn to enjoy you our company before taking on a serious relationship. i suspect you need to grow up individually and emotionally. i hope you know i mean this constructivly. good luck and keep posting.

Frankie,<P> I just read your response to this post. I feel pretty much what you are saying about being in love. I to lived with spouse before marriage for 2 years. This is true about living alone before marriage. I now also regret not being on my own before hand. I also don't wake up thinking about my spouse. We are civil to each other but we live like roommates not husband and wife.I am not saying thats bad being civil but life is to short to not be in love. I want to feel alive again. My husband tells me he still loves me but I to wonder. He also admitted he forgot what it felt like to be in love. So how can he still say he loves me. I know we cannot go back and try to realize if we made the right decision on who we married but I know at times its hard not to wonder. I know what I want and am praying I hope I get that someday. I am a very giving person it would be nice to get that same kind of giving back for once. I don't know if you understand any of this but I had to respond because I know where you are coming from. Good luck to all of us.

Today is my first day back on the BB as I have been pretty busy the past few days. Anyway I wanted to update. I went with my H to get the His Needs, Her Needs and also Divorce Busting which someone else mentioned in a different post. I am reading Divorce Busting, while the H reads Dr. Harley's book Reading the post from K, I believe (especially now after reading part of the book) that there is some truth to really having to work at marriage. I can't say however that I have immeadiatly changed my mind for the better, but I am looking at things differently. In DB, the opening chapter talks about how family's divorce, not just the husband and wife. A lot of what she writes makes sense to me, as I saw my mother in three marriages, and also by looking back at my first marriage. There was nothing wrong with my first H either. Well, of course there were things I thought were wrong, but not anything that we couldn't have worked on. Looking back, I don't regret my decision, but instead I realize that I was young, and I did lack the "skills" needed to be successful at marriage. And I can relate how I may end up in 5 more years if I decide to divorce this time around. So it's given me a lot to ponder on. It is still hard for me to think that it may take 6 months to a year before there is any real change. I don't know why this is so hard for me. I guess I've always been an "instant gratification" sort of person. One thing is for sure, I do not want to repeat any of these patterns as K mentioned. I suppose most of me would like to work this out and I pray that I can have a deep, loving marriage. I even invisioned renewing my marriage vows to my H. It just all seems so rough right now. And I think my worst fear is that I would try with all my might, and still end up feeling the same.

sunshine;<P>It's great to see you back with a renewed attitude. Remember, the "attitude" is 90% of the battle!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>And I think my worst fear is that I would try with all my might, and still end up feeling the same. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That might scare you, but it shouldn't. If you work very hard on this, you WILL learn the new skills. You'll "change" for the better. I doubt you'll end up feeling the same (it's very unlikely). And even if you do, you'll know that you've given it your best shot. And that will set a good example for your kids, your husband, and it will help your self-esteem too.<P>Give it some time. I also strongly recommend the counseling available through Marriage Builders. That will help facilitate the process. They can also recommend local "counselors" who are familiar with Dr. Harley's work. <P>

It's been since beggining of May since last post. I don't know if things are any better, but I can say that they are not worse. I've been reading Divorce Busters although I admitt I havn't read it as faithfully as I should be. I don't know that all the answers come from a book either, but I do believe they can help steer you in the right direction. But, what if I just can't go that direction? Or I don't know which direction IS right?? I called my ex today. After I blew him off three weeks ago thinking I was gonna make it work with dh, but the last week I've been thinking about him a lot. It is so hard to do this. It's the "you can't have your cake and eat it too" syndrome. Most often than not I want out of my marriage, but I stay because of the kids. I keep saying, who made this damn rule that you have to work on your marriage?? If someone wants out why can't they be free to go? I don't know, I mean life goes on you know. So much bad crap happens in America every day, divorce is hardly the worse that can happen to a person. Ok I know right now I sound stupid, but I just need to vent I have no clue where I am going with this, I just need to figure it out. I am off to a convention next week. 4 days In San Antonio. The very first time I've been away from my dh at ALL. I hope when I get back I'll feel better.

Sunshine,<P>I am 24. I don't belive in sowing your wild oats in your "roaring twenties". Although I think a person needs to do quite a bit of dating to figure out what they truly want in a relationship, I don't feel that you need to try every thing/ every person before deciding what kind of person you want to be and what you want from your life. I can look at people I admire and know that I don't have to go through everything they went through to see where they are coming from. <P>Why do you want to be with your ex? What need is he fulfilling? Is that need something your H can give you if you ask him?<P>Why did you get married to your H? Obviously you loved him at some point. It's easy to get distracted by little things that annoy you/ make you angry about your H, but look at why you married him in the first place. What if you had made a list of the reasons you married your H. Do any of those reasons still apply?<P>As to your comment about why work at a marriage...All relationships invovle work. If you divorce your H because you are looking for a relationship you don't have to work at, I'm afraid you'll be alone for a long time. Think about your relationship w/ your children. Do they make you happy all the time? Probably not. Do they make you angry sometimes? What about when they may say hurtful things to you in an arguement? Will you decide not to be their mother anymore? Or will you forgive them for their faults because you love them. If they tell you one day that you did something to hurt them, would you walk away? Or would you tell them you're sorry and put your arms around them and comfort them. <P>Maybe you'll decide that your relationship with your H isn't worth fighting for. Even so, please don't think you'll find a "perfect" mate where you'll never have to fight for your relationship. I'm not trying to scold. It's obvious that you are truly frustrated and you are trying to make things better, for yourself and your H. I applaud you for that! <P>I do recommend listening to Tori Amos' Little Earthquakes CD. I have often found enlightenment in her lyrics. "Sometimes, I said, sometimes I hear my voice and it's been, here, Silent All These Years."<P>Whatever happens, I hope you can find happiness.