I just found out over the weekend that my sister and her husband are seperating. I feel so terrible and want to do something to help. <P>The thing is I'm both incredibly angry with them. After ten years and two children later they are just tossing it away. Neither of them are going to counseling. I don't think either of them are having or have had an affair, from what I understand this is typical marriage stuff that they can't get past..like taking each other for granted..never going out anymore that type of thing that happens often after a few years. <P>I truly do not want this to happen, and I know that if they have their hearts set on this then there is nothing I can really do. But is there any way of talking sense into either of them. My sister is moving out with the kids to another apartment down the road, and this week they are going to the bank to split there retirement funds and joint accounts...doesn't sound very temporary to me....<P>If they are truly miserable then I can not really blame them..everyone deserves happiness, but I think they can still have happiness together...<P>Help...<P>TorGirl

TorGirl,<BR> Now, this is interesting to me...you seem to care more about their marriage than they do. Tell me more about them, their situation, how you figure into their relationship, etc.<P> Separation loos like divorce, TG...that is its function: to show what the D would 'look' like. Unfortunately, many people start to date in that time frame, which is a no-no in my book. My XW lied about the separation to get the D quicker...there was a friend of mine 'in the wings'...the EA had been going on for a while. Long story, won't bore you with the sorted details.<BR> Your efforts are laudable, but perhaps a little misguided. Don't get me wrong, here...marriage should be a life long committment...it is a life long committment, but they both think the grass is greener...I used to think that, too. Why not let them both come here, and read what this process does to people? It has totally destroyed me, and my family. It has put a strain on other families, too. I have lost many friends in the process, they just don't call, or come around anymore. I have not plagued them at all, nor have I mentioned the affair to anyone, except one friend who is still there for me, but fairly unaccessible to me. The point is, that the bad far outweighs the good for me, but I did not want the D. I did at first, but that thought left me rather quickly after looking at it for a while. Too late.<p>[This message has been edited by waiting_for_her (edited July 09, 2001).]

Hmm how I figure into their relationship...well she's my sister and he's like the brother I never had. I care about them both very deeply. <P>I myself have been through a divorce so I know the pain that it brings not to just the couple, but their children, extended family and even friends. Now if either had an affair or there was abuse..verbal, metal or otherwise I could totally understand the need to the seperation. But from everything I've heard, alot, if not all is about not having variuos emotional needs met. And I think it is a big mistake on their part to not even try counselling before the decide its over. <P>Now, of course I know I can't make them stay, but I do hope I can find away to make them reconsider such drastic action. Last night I was told that they had thought of seperating 5 years ago so all of this should come as no surprise, but that just frustrated me further knowing that they were well aware they had some serious problems and just sat on them for the last half decade.<P>I can't go into specific detail because I don't know all of the details and it would take about three days to write down the ones I know..lol. <P>I think when you've been together as long as they have, and you have children together and you started in a very loving caring relationship you should at the very least try and repair the damage done over the years not just say [censored] it and leave.<P>From my own experience I think there is a time in some marriages that you just know that it can't be resolved and the best thing to do for all involved is to let it go, and if that is the case here I can accept that, it makes me sad but hey everyone deserves happiness. <P>But I sure don't think anyone has the right to give up so easily..how can a person justify ripping a family apart like that? What.."we were happy but its not as easy as it was and we actually have to work at it now so I don't want to bother"??? Ya ask me thats a load of crap. But then thats just my opinion.<P>Anyhow, thanks for taking the time to read my posts, and I appreciate any advice you may have. <P>Thanks<BR>TorGirl

Yes, that's pretty much what I thought about how you figured into the mix. That is a great gift...to be able to care that much for the relationship.<P>We agree on the salient points. The 'throwing in the towel' attitude is very prevalent, I had NO IDEA of the magnitude of the problem until my D loomed on the horizon. I was also naive enough to think I had 'a good bead on things' and what was <B><I>required</I></B> of me. I knew next to nothing, save for the things I <B><I>expected</I></B>. That is how you go even an entire decade with the same problems in commmunication. Eventually, one concludes the it wasn't right in the first place, and history gets rewritten.<P>People don't feel <I>compelled</I> to work at it as much. I think that we are getting too lazy in our world of <I>instant gratification</I>. I thought about it when I was thinking about my kids, and especially my six year old. He plays way too much video games, and watches way too much TV. On top of that, they all get codes to make the actual playing of the game easy. There are many more examples that I thought of that leave him with no tools for practicing true patience. It comes out in other areas. I'm busy telling them to be patient and do the right thing...all they see is go for it, make yourself happy, etc. When they grow up, they will have the same lack of committment. Its sad, but I can make it different for them, if I can restore some authority in what is left of my house. That is a ton of work for me!<P>There are several books that come to mind for them. Can you get her to work some? Or him? Who is the more likely to be willing to just try some things honestly? They are just small changes, and no real work. The 'work' is putting the axe down. It takes a humble person, and they are being proud, and angry. It is always the same. People used to call it pig-headed, or stubborn. It is pride: nothing more, nothing less. What is being said is not 'I want to be happy', its 'I am too proud to put another's needs before mine.' If they both say that, then there is literally nothing to be done at that point. Their eyes will be opened, or they will not. You have to open your eyes, then your heart. Look at yourself critically, look at your mate lovingly. Those are open eyes. Let your mate influence you, attempt to agree with your mate. That is an open heart. Those statements will likely draw a lengthy tirade and defensive responses from them. Again, there is the pride thing. We are charged equally in marriage by our Creator; the keeper of the blood covenant, to love one another <B>without</B> expectation. (In other words love them without expecting <B>anything</B> in return.) When the other takes advantage of that, they are making their mate a 'doormat'. I think we err when we point that out to someone who understands what they are doing. This is like Plan A, where that type of love is emphasized over any other. Now, in Plan B, the fraternal love is more emphasized in anticipation, I think, of having them long for the agape love of Plan A. That is why you implement Plan A first, and follow it with Plan B. It is a complete process, not an a la carte menu system. You are a doormat if you continue Plan A when you should be in Plan B. I found that out the hard way!<P>Anyway, let me know who you think will be more likely to do a small amount of work to see if there is anything left to save.<P>Finally, I am praying for their vision, and for some strength, and peace for you. Remember to be content, even if you are not happy. God bless you. -Mike<BR><p>[This message has been edited by waiting_for_her (edited July 10, 2001).]