The verbal abuse is worse!!<P>I asked my ex one time to just hit me and get it over with. I would rather be hit than told how worthless, fat (I'm not), lazy, and stupid I am...over and over and over! <P>Yeah, the punches and slaps that he gave hurt. But eventually the bruising went away and that hurt stopped. The pain and insecurities that the verbal abuse caused will probably never completely go away. I can sit and say that I've accomplished a lot but that doesn't mean that I believe it deep down inside. I still have doubts about myself as a woman and mother. <P>Good luck to you CC!<P>Mitzi

T-L-C, I sure know what you mean when you say that it's hard for you to accept compliments. I know that I have accomplished a great deal in my life and have overcome obstacles that are not for the faint of heart. I have many wonderful talents and on the surface, I recognize all of this but underneath, it all seems like a lie somehow. It's almost as if it wasn't really me who did all of these things. No, I'm not schizophrenic but it's almost like there are two people inside. There's the vibrant, happy, go-getter with enthusiasm for nearly everything and everyone. She is a dynamo, intellectual, caring, and very creative and resourceful. Then there is the other one who is too careful, afraid of risk, scared to death of abandonment, self-conscious to the core about a multitude of things, and with the attitude that since she's made so many mistakes, how does she know if she's right this time? It actually doesn't surprise me that I chose this husband of mine. He's funny, charming, out-going, and people like him in spite of the fact that he tells some pretty big whoppers! He has had an abusive childhood which I relate to very well, and I see BIG signs of co-dependency here. I believe I have analized our situation fairly well and I have done exhaustive research to try to figure out just what the heck was going on here. The two answers that keep coming up are this: He will never change because to do so would involve more effort than he is willing to put forth and if I continue to live with the circumstances as they are, I will die an unsightly emotional death and will lose all opportunities for growth, harmony, and peace in my life. HOWEVER, I do love this man deeply even though I get so angry with him that I would like to slam the door in his face and never see him again. I somehow manage to allow him to control me and I don't know how to stop letting him do that. I'm toying with the idea of separate households as a way to keep him distanced enough from me to be sane but I don't think that would work either. I know that if we divorce, he will be devastated and I will lose what little help physically and financially that I currently enjoy along with the good times when they are present. In the past, he always promises to change and it does for awhile but then it's right back to the same old thing and usually worse. I think I'm beating a dead horse and yet somehow I KNOW it's still alive. Like member LetSTry, I think part of the reason it gets worse is that I am 7 years older than he is, my sex drive is zero now and I'm starting to have health problems so it's scaring him to death that I will die and leave him. He may be practicing distancing himself from me by the increase in all of his abuse. It may be that he can see how unhappy I've become and he knows that I won't tolerate all of this much longer. There just has to be an answer somewhere.

CC,<BR> Perhaps it might help then to learn to separate his behavior from him. We all have the ability to behave in ways that deny our true nature. I believe that we are basically inclined to be good people, but our inner issues often get in the way.<P>Once you are able to do that, he might be able to do the same. An angry man will do little that he is told, or asked. This is one of those self-discovery issues. Among other things, I think that your prayers ought to take on the dimension of a request that he be granted some peace, and that his heart be softened.<P>In my original post, I had asked you about what you thought his core issue is in this. I cannot believe that it is you, or what you do, or don't do, but I could support a theory that it was how he <B>perceived</B> things, or you, and your behavior. For example, the sex issue illustrates the 180 degree shift between your perceived realities. You state that it is more or less driven by physical/emotional symptoms in you. He sees it as you withholding something from him, and providing what he feels is his to someone else. Time, his anger, and your passivity have caused you both to 'dig in', and that is not going to solve anything. I am not saying that you have to blame per se, just that you do have the power to change the interaction in some respect.<P>I do hope that you do not continue to withdraw as a result. That will make things worse. He sees that as a weakness, and submission to his anger, That will only exacerbate the situation.<P>Do you ever talk calmly about sex, and power struggles? They are pretty much the same issue to him. In fact, I feel that the sex is the main issue for him, the money follows right behind.<P>I will repeat my question from above...what is the status of his career...is it fulfilling to him? If you are bringing in less than $30k, you are living below the national poverty level if there are more than 3 people living there. Since you work as well, he is threatened in his role as provider. That drives it for him.<P>The childhood issues are severe, but the career thing is much more severe, IMHO. His self-esteem issues are HUGE, that is why he attempts to foist them upon you.<P>Ladies, I am sorry to have to disagree with you on this, but since I am a man with anger management/self-esteem issues, I will tell you that this is a major source of it. I would ask you to stop for a moment, and reread your posts. Do any of you feel that you successfully addressed the issues (Did anything that you did work?) I don't know any of these men, and I'm not sure that I would want to given their present states of mind, but I have commiserated with these types before, and it is my opinion (and my status at this time) that their own sense of failure, and emasculation is caused by the fact that they are unable to provide a stable environment for their families. It is listed in ENs for women (remember that Dr. Harley says that all 10 are needed by both spouses, just that the relative importance is different.) Should it be surprising to discover that it is a basic need for a man to provide this for a woman? Or that he will get frustrated when he can't? Or, that he might come to blame her when she steps in to help? I know that proper motivation is there, but that will make zero difference to him. It is more basic to his nature than that.<P>You have been concentrating your efforts on what his anger does to CC, not to what its cause is. The mistake (harsh word...too strong, I am not saying that any of you are wrong.) in that is that it doesn't solve the problem, and simply blaming him does nothing to explain the cause.<P>Please do not misunderstand me...its great to help fix the damage to the wronged. I'm all for that. Being a man, I want it fixed for them both. Being women, you want to explore how she feels. All well and good, but why not go a step further, and examine why this happens, and how to prevent it.<P>I know that I have generalized, it is not my intent to pigeon-hole any of us, but I thought that a fresh perspective might be in order. I apologize to anyone I have offended. -Mike<p>[This message has been edited by waiting_for_her (edited July 15, 2001).]

<BR>Mike-<P>No offense taken here. My STBX's job history has been a MAJOR factor. His father is a provider -- his mom stayed home with the two kids and hasn't worked since he was a baby. His ideal is the man works and makes good money and the wife/servant stays home, cooks, cleans, raises the kids, doesn't question the master, etc.<P>He had a job when we met that he kept for many years, but was very unhappy there. Didn't make the money he felt he should be making. When he lost that job due to his attitude and tardiness, he blamed ME and didn't work for months. Since then he's worked around a dozen different poorly paying jobs, none for more than a year. Always MY fault he got fired. We had an income of less than $20,000 a year and two kids. It was hard to get by. On top of this, he would not ask for help or accept state assistance (called me all sorts of names for getting on WIC when our 2nd was born) -- AND had a SPENDING problem!! He'd waste hundreds of dollars we didn't have on JUNK he bought online -- while our debt climbed and credit crashed. And it was MY fault the bills didn't get paid, even though he had spent his paycheck!<P>In the meantime, I'd take on 2 or 3 part-time jobs, sometimes work I could do from home, and use that money to pay the electric bill and get food. I was accused of squandering the money, working jobs that weren't really WORK, he'd get furious that the housework wasn't getting done because I was PLAYING (so sorry for doing jobs I LIKED!!), etc.<P>Money and sex were definitely the two biggest issues, probably followed closely by my lack of domestic skills. Oh yes, HE couldn't get a good job because too many women were working instead of in the kitchen where we belong ... *sigh* ... angry white male doesn't BEGIN to describe him ...<P>

To Waiting for Her: The only reason I still love this man is because I can, at times, separate his behaviour from him. It is impossible to do on a daily basis or even an every few days basis when someone you love is calling you hurtful names and accusing you of things you never even thought of doing, checking the drive-way for tire-tracks, searching through your mail and computer, taking money from your purse that you were going to use to pay bills, sabotaging efforts for a better job, and the list goes on. I don't think you had a chance to go to the link that I posted above at <A HREF="http://abuse101.com/leaving1.html" TARGET=_blank>http://abuse101.com/leaving1.html</A> and read through the information there which is exactly what I'm going through. I fully recognize the fact that he is not a bad person but that he has psychological problems that are beyond my ability to help him with and he refuses to recognize or acknowledge them. There is no such thing as speaking to him rationally or sitting down with him and having a calm conversation about sex or power struggles. He is right and he knows he's right, just ask him! He can't get past the idea that there doesn't have to be someone to blame for everything. He has abdicated all responsibility and chooses to blame me for everything. Nothing is ever even partially his fault. As for his career, he's really quite happy with what he is doing and his salary is in range for the area we live in. He would like to be paid more but wouldn't we all? There is just the two of us and my brother lives here but is self-supporting. On finances, I think the problem is more that he thinks he should not have to pay bills at all, that this should be a free ride in life simply because we exist. Rationalizing about his career and the issues of sex will not change the fact that he will continue to be abusive and he will continue to feel that he "owns" me and therefore he owns the right to have sex with me whether I want to or not. He needs a wake-up call before he can even come to grips with the idea that maybe he should consider some counseling, but you know, I don't think that will happen. I think he will continue to believe that I'm the one at fault, that he is an innocent victim who had no part in alienating me from him. He will blame non-existent lovers, family, and whomever else he can. He will fail to see that his words have hurt me beyond fixing although being a survivor, I think the hurt will lessen in time. I honestly do appreciate your input though and I believe that you are partially right about some things but I don't know how to get past that.

waiting_for_her,<P>I know w/ my stbxh..his problems have to do w/ himself..<BR>I know his core issues are fear of abandonment, not being able to provide for his family..that scares him..and I know this..he makes pretty good money..but he's never home..his<BR>job takes him away to where he's only home 1 weekend a month..(if that) just so he can provide financially for his family..and I respect that he has that work ethic, and I respect that he wants to provide financially..(and I've told him that) but I don't like him being gone all the time..I don't like his drinking..I don't like when he gets verbally abusive towards me..I hate his actions..but I know that his actions and his words don't match up.."his fear" of not being able to provide financially is stronger than his actually wanting to be with his family..and I know this stems from his childhood, of being poor..his dad was an alcoholic and worked to buy booze, he'd buy booze before he bought food..or paid the rent, there were seven of them living in a one bedroom home at one point..and I know these things..but "I" can't help him to see this.."I" can't help him to not be afraid..that is something he has to learn on his own...I've tried to talk to him about these things..and all he says is.."Your not an f*n counselor what the f do you know?" "Stop trying to analyze me" "what happened in my past is the past, it has nothing to do with who I am now" <BR>We went to see a counselor together last year, she was asking us both questions..about our childhoods, and ourselves, about our FOO, all that..I answered her honestly..he kept telling her that his childhood was fine..<BR>was normal..and for him..he's right..it was normal..and when she asked if he would have considered his dad an alcoholic at first he said no, he just drank alot..then in delving further he finally admitted that yes..HIS dad was an alcholic..(when she'd asked me if I thought his dad was an alcoholic I'd said yes, same w/ my own) his drinking caused him to lose many jobs, it caused him to lose many homes..he bought booze before he bought food..my stbxh didn't think that was alcoholism..she asked HIM to come back..he went back to see her three more times..and quit going because all she wanted to do was "talk about his past, and not about the marriage" he doesn't see that in many ways he's just like his dad..no he doesn't buy his booze before he gives us money...which I honestly believe is why he took the job he did..he gets a subsitance for being gone..on top of his regular salary..he sent his paycheck home..and he keeps the subsistance..he would use his subsistance to buy his booze..<BR>and for him to live on..but hey he is supporting his family..even if he's off in another town/state drinking every night..he's financially supporting his family..but the rest of the support isn't there..and it got to the point where he was spending all his subsistance and calling me for money because he couldn't afford to pay his rent..because he'd spent all his money on booze..and he'd get mad if I didn't have any to send him..he'd be drunk and calling me asking me for money saying he didn't have any money to pay his rent and he'd have to sleep in his truck..and I'd feel guilty and send him money..and not pay bills that needed to be paid here..because I wasn't going to let him have to face the consquences of his actions..because then I'd be the "b*tch" that he kept saying I was..the unsupportive wife..and if I didn't give him money then I must be "sleeping" with someone else..and I became the "sl*t, and wh*re" after all it was HIS money...He worked for it..I was "just" a stay at home mom..and didn't help bring any money into the household..and when I tried to save anything..our house "needs" new carpet..and has needed it for a long time..I'd tried and save for it..and he knew this..but in his "drunk" mind I was saving for a divorce..and not for new carpet..and so if there is ANY F*n money in savings I'd better send it to him NOW because HE WAS BROKE!!! it was so<BR>bad at one point I was wondering if he was doing drugs other than just drinking..he was working out of town and staying<BR>with my brother and his wife..paying them so much a month for rent, and food..and such..he has a company vehical, a company gas card, (so he doesn't have to worry about paying for vehical repairs or gas) the only real bill he had was the phone that he'd had installed..he ate w/ my brother and sister-in-law, she did the cooking and shopping..and he'd still call me asking for money..because he was broke..my brother told me all he did was smoke/and drink..he'd come home and go out by the pool and sit and smoke/and drink till it was time to eat..then he'd eat..and go out and sit at the pool and smoke/and drink some more and then go to bed..he'd tell me he had friends from work who would ask him to go out fishing, or sailing, and boating, and what have you..but he wouldn't do it..I'd try and encourage him to go out and do things w/ his friends..and he would say.."Why, so that you can go off with your friends and meet other men?" "You just want to be single, thats all" yet, when he was working in other places and not living w/ my brother I'd call him and he wouldn't be around..when he got a company cell phone and told me to call him on that so I wouldn't have the long distance bills, when I'd call him he'd get mad..and tell me it was for business only..(then he'd call me drunk..using this same phone) I'd called him a few times on the cell phone and he was at a bar and someone else answered the phone..and he'd get mad at me for calling his cell phone.. <BR>And if I didn't call him..he'd get mad and say I didn't call because I was out w/ someone else..and again "I" just want to be single because I didn't call him..<P>When I'd said I wanted to go back to college his response was "why? your just a stay home mom, you don't need an education for that, or is it so that you can meet some other man?, you just want to be single" that has always been his response..I know thats an insecurity problem..and it doesn't matter how many times I'd tell him "no, thats not why", and try and reassure him..it didn't matter..he'd just drink more..and call me cussing and calling me names..and then hang up on me..then when he'd come home..for the one weekend a month..visit..he'd expect me to be all lovey dovey on him..and rush to meet him at the door, like nothing had been said..like he'd never called me all these names..or accused me of having an affair..and I'd have sex w/ him...just to shut him up..and yes..I began to resent him..and I felt used..that he didn't want anything to do w/ me but sex..<BR>he wanted to be in a relationship with no real responsibilities so that he didn't have to date..didn't have to go out and meet someone and didn't have to worry about getting some disease..but he didn't want the day to day responsibilities of being a husband and father...<P>I think after nine years of my asking him to find another job..and him promising me that he would take two weeks vacation after this job..and after this job..and after this job...and him asking me to type up his resume' after every job so that he could go out and look for another job (and me doing it, and my even sending the resume' out for him at his request) and him never calling these people back when they did call..and then this past year, I told him either find another job or find someplace else to stay when he's town..and him taking two weeks vacation to find an apartment..and not look for another job..it finally sunk into me that he's the one who doesn't want to be married..<BR>even if his words say he does..his actions don't...he's the one filing for divorce..all the while saying "it's what 'you' want, your the one who wants to be single" and all I wanted was for him to find another job and be home..and be a part of this family, and be here emotionally and physically and not drinking..no matter how many times I've told him this..he doesn't believe it..and nothing I could do can make him believe it..<BR>

w_f_h/Mike,<P>I adore ya, you know that. B-b-but, respectfully, I think that although your heart is in the right place in regard to making us understand the head/heart/soul of a verbal abuser, it is somehow putting the onus on the VICTIM.<P>Yeah, my ex has self-esteem issues. It might be one of the reasons he sought out many women to make him feel better about himself. <P>Okay, I feel bad about that.<P>But not **that** bad.<P>Not bad enough to excuse what he did to me -- which I DID NOT deserve, no matter what.<P>Picture Columbine, or another one of those school shootings, where the kids who did the shootings were outcasts, ostracized by their peers, teased, had finally had enough -- certainly, kids with self-esteem problems. Does that "explain" their actions? Perhaps... but... the danger... still real. Still VERY REAL. An explanation, but not a good enough reason.<P>Verbal abuse is REAL and causes a kind of damage that you will never understand unless you've been on the receiving end of it. <P>Try laying in the fetal position on the floor, in tears, while your 6'2" husband yells at the top of his lungs, watching you squirm, knowing he has the advantage, you trying to pull away but being too weak form hours of being told that you're worthless and a whore... or try walking into a market after a generally decent afternoon together, you reaching out your hand to him, and he slapping it away - no explanation... or being told that you're a horrible mother, that everyone thinks so, in front of your children, by the father of those children, and what can you say? Because it's been said before, and you're beginning to believe it.<P>I could go on and on.<P>Abuse is abuse is abuse. <P>It is real.<P>There is NEVER a "good enough" reason. <P>EVER.<BR>

Sheryl,<P>Ya know what? I love ya! You put things into words so much better! <P>Sadly, you understand all too well how it feels to be abused. And the way you write it, makes it so much more clear. <P>No offense to you Mike, but we could sit here and tell you over and over how it feels and you would probably never understand. Not your fault cause you've never been thru it. My own mother STILL questions me about it and just can't comprehend it. <P>There is no good reason to abuse someone. NONE. My ex doesn't see it as a problem so there was no reasoning with him to get him help. He is the type of man who felt powerful when he did the horrible things to me. He is one who will never, EVER understand that what he did is wrong!!<P>Love and Hugs!<BR>Mitzi

Mike, In my H's case I believe the cause of his abusive behavior is clear. The number 1 cause is drugs and alcohol and the number 2 cause is the OW - maybe guilt, maybe just preferring her and seeing me as the stumbling block to his happiness. My H would probably agree with you. But the facts don't support it.<P>My H began the verbal abuse about 6 months after we moved in together. I immediately called friends to help me pack up and leave. He begged me to return and promised to change. I gave in. I loved him, he'd never treated me this way before... The behavior repeated several months later and I was too embarassed to ask for help. Again he apologized, etc., etc. <P>After a few episodes, I drew the connection that whenever he raged at me, he was drunk. I'd heard about AA and called them and they steered me to Al-Anon. For years I used Al-Anon as a crutch whenever I needed a place to vent when my friends were just too burned out to listen anymore. <P>Finally, I started attending Al-Anon in earnest, learned to detach with love, realized I could not stay in such an abusive environment, and finally moved out for good, I thought. By then, my H had lost his professional license and his job, but was doing a telephone scam to get enough money each day to buy beer and heroin. When I left, he went to treatment.<P>After treatment, and 6 months in a 1/2-way house, we got back together. With sobriety there was no verbal abuse. My H has always been a volatile person, yelling at other drivers in traffic when he's upset, or when he lost his keys or his wallet, which he does frequently, etc. But there was none of the demeaning, hateful, shaming abuse directed at me. He still had no license and no job but seemed happy as a clam about not working. I encouraged, and probably nagged, him about getting a job - one of the AA traditions, referring to groups, also applies to individuals. It states that we should be self-supporting by our own contributions. I was jealous of his carefree existence and didn't want to support him anymore.<P>Eventually we moved, built a house, built a business, built another house closer to the business, and both of us drifted from our programs. We were "cured." NOT. I got breast cancer, my H stopped having sex with me and turned to OW for support (and more I'm sure now). Somewhere along the line he began drinking beer again, then smoking pot with OW (apparently her drug of choice), then smoking crank with OW, and finally shooting crank and drinking hard liquor, which is where he's at now. <P>I let my H be in charge of everything financial in the business and in our home. I had always done it during the drinking years and believed, like you've said, that H's self-esteem depended on me trusting him to be the bread winner and him feeling that he could provide for his family.<P>But the abuse started last summer after I seduced him in the hot tub after going 2 years without sex. Two years during which I had a mastectomy, chemotherapy, radiation, and painful reconstructive surgery when not having sex was not the biggest issue in my life. The verbal abuse started the very next day. Apparently he thought I was having an affair (projected guilt?) and read my journals (I've kept a journal since I was 18). Since I wasn't but he was sure it was something to do with another man, he blamed it on an old boyfriend that I'd written about very passionately during our relationship 25 years earlier and had mentioned more recently when I was missing sex in my current relationship (but just to say that he never stopped wanting me like my H had as a way to reassure myself that I might not be totally undesirable). <P>Our sex life continued sporadically from that point, at H's whim, until he kicked me out 2 months ago. The verbal abuse never stopped since it began suddenly last August. Meanwhile the drinking, drug abuse, and the A have all progressed. Now he has no job, I'm supporting him, and he's telling the few people that will listen that he's permanently disabled from an old injury and plans to live on the beach with the OW while I support him.<P>Sorry for the length of this response. You obviously hit a nerve with all of us. We, as women, are not ignorant of our H's need to support and protect their families. It is not the only factor at work here. I am trying, like we all are, to see my part in all this, but I bent over backwards to allow my H to be the breadwinner to the point that he tells everyone HE built our business, HE built our home for ME (but adds that I'm so greedy and selfish I don't even appreciate it!). It made running the business alone difficult at first because he'd kept me so thoroughly out of the financial end (to the point where I didn't realize that almost everything we own is in my name as "a married woman, her sole and separate property" - don't know what difference that really makes in a community property state, but interesting that I'm the one with the credit).<P>Abuse has to do with childhood issues, not with adult male issues except as they tie into these childhood issues, IMHO.

Hi, I just wanted to say thank you to all of you have added your support to my Mom CoffeeCake. I know that she is right in this matter and I , as always, have been supportive to her, but sometimes you need a non-bias opinion to confirm what you believe to already be true! Love you Mom and Remember this: I will always support you. And thanks again to all of you!

CC,<P>I read your webpage..WOW..that says it all..My stbxh<BR>wasn't the natural charmer and out going person..<BR>Though he was wonderful to my daughter (as I was a single parent) and he showed this side to EVERYONE..to the<BR>point my family was telling me "you'll never find anyone<BR>who loves your daughter the way he does, as his own"<BR>to where they pushed for us to marry..even though I had my own doubts about it..I didn't trust my own instincts<BR>and I should have..

Here's another wonderful verbal abuse site, with a list of "symptoms" --> <A HREF="http://www.drirene.com/verbal1.htm" TARGET=_blank>Click Here For Signs of Verbal Abuse</A>.<P>Also, on Emotional Needs, we discussed abuse... A LOT... please click <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum8/HTML/004776.html" TARGET=_blank>Here</A> to read that thread.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Nyneve (edited July 15, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by waiting_for_her:<BR>Do you ever talk calmly about sex, and power struggles? They are pretty much the same issue to him. In fact, I feel that the sex is the main issue for him, the money follows right behind.<P>....Do any of you feel that you successfully addressed the issues (Did anything that you did work?) I don't know any of these men, and I'm not sure that I would want to given their present states of mind, but I have commiserated with these types before, and it is my opinion (and my status at this time) that their own sense of failure, and emasculation is caused by the fact that they are unable to provide a stable environment for their families. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Mike, you're a brave man to participate in this discussion! I disagree with most of what you said, but I'll give you credit for trying. Now, a calm discussion about power struggles with a verbal abuser??? Well, actually, I can think of one... where my H made a commitment which he didn't honor. All the other times? He's like a verbal shredding machine. I am currently in a state in withdrawal, primarily to protect myself from shredding. As long as I have no complaints, no expectations, and no requests, well, we get along just fine. <P>I keep thinking that I can improve my communication skills so that we <I>could</I> have a calm discussion about something more significant than what's for dinner. The frequency of that thought is diminishing and being replaced with the belief that I will have to exit the marriage to remove this behavior from my life. Staying carries a high price, and so does leaving. <P>CC, I hope things get better for you.

<BR>Bringing this back up ... wondering if anyone has heard from coffeecake??<P>

<small>[ August 08, 2004, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: laura_lee ]</small>

<small>[ August 08, 2004, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: laura_lee ]</small>

T-L-C and all of you:<P>Thank you for your concern. It has been horrible here and even though I have tried everything I can think of and have scoured the postings here over and over for alternatives, I just can't find any. The abuse has worsened if anything. I came home from work one night and he had disassembled the bed and took it out to the garage. He said it was to keep me from "f**king some other guy in his bed. I've been sleeping on the couch since then. <P>I started a new job and have had strange hours because we must have coverage from 8 in the morning until 8 in the evening. He did not believe I was working those hours and said that he came by my work but my car wasn't there. I'm sure he just didn't see it as we must double park behind one another in the back of the building. Again, I was accused of doing things I have never even considered.<P>He says this is all my fault and that if I hadn't done what I did, (which was nothing) he wouldn't be leaving. He told me he wanted a divorce and that all I had done was use him. He's been drinking every night and trying to find every way he can to manipulate me into feeling guilty over stuff that never even happened. <P>Last night, I had enough. I told him to get out and that I never wanted to see him again. He's packing his stuff as I write this. I no longer feel remorse and sadness over this. I'm angry as I've ever been in my whole life and maybe the sadness will follow. Right now, I just don't care what he does as long as he leaves me alone.<P>Thank you all again for your kindness.<BR>I'll be back.<BR>

CC,<BR>Has your H ever been physically abusive? I'm concerned for your safety.

He has not been physically abusive although he has threatened me on many occasions. I don't worry so much about what he will do to me as I do about him destroying property, being mean to the dog, and stuff like that. It's also crossed my mind that he might be capable of harm in a less direct manner like cutting my brake lines or something. He does scare me a little but then, I don't think he would really do any of that stuff unless he was drinking. I wouldn't be too sure if that was the case and he's drinking a lot now. I think that many of his threats are just for show as a way to manipulate me. My family is expressing the same concern though so I've put an escape plan into place just in case I need to use it.