I'd like to tell my story. It is quite long and convoluted, so I will try to highlight the main points briefly.<BR>My husband is a hot-shot respiratory therapy supervisor in a large medical center. He works the night shift. I used to work there too doing the same thing. Later, I went back to college and became a special ed. teacher.<P>In Nov., 1998, my husband had an affair with a lab tech girl. It started out emotional, then got sexual. They got off work early one night and rendezvous'd, and also one morning a few days later. <P>In March, 1999, I sought help for a drinking problem and my mounting emotional difficulties. I was successful, but barely. My husband was very defiant and hostile at my requests for him to quit drinking in the house and leaving alcohol in the refrigerator and cabinet. It was awful. "This is my damn house, and I will do whatever I want in it." You know the drill. He openly drank in front of me and hotly denied he had a drinking problem himself. If you believe that, I have some cheap land for sale in the Everglades. <P>The summer of 1999 I caught my husband hanging out in gay and bisexual chat rooms on my computer. There was evidence of much pornography on my hard drive, and my son and I sometimes accidentally found lewd pictures of men and women, occasionally nude. I had had the computer only a short time and was pretty inexperienced. I confronted my husband and he said he was just messing around and he would stop. He started it back up a couple of months later, so I installed SpectorSoft. I recorded his liasons and even contacted him from my friend's computer, posing as a bi-male he'd met in a room. The emotional devastation I experienced was truly profound. These chat rooms were based in our town, like melbournem4m, m4mcocoabeach, bicuriousmarried, bimarriedhomealone, etc. One cybersex scene he posed as a female.<P>In Nov., 1999, this knowledge peaked at the same time I was experiencing severe difficulty in my career. I had been assigned 63 resource students with learning disabilities, and was being disciplined for not seeing them all consistently. I was overwhelmed and drowning. I had gone to admin. several times for help, but they passed the buck so much I gave up. With my marriage and my job crumbling to pieces, I lost it (my composure), big-time.<P>I went on LOA from work and kicked my husband out of the house. I was being treated for major depression at the time, and didn't know I was bipolar. I went into one mother of a crisis. I was offered hospitalization, yet I declined. I was afraid I would lose my son. I appeared to have paranoid schizophrenia. I am not exaggerating. Two more times I was offered admission, once by my internist. I declined, but I really needed to go. I tolerated three weeks of this and begged my husband to come home. My counselor was disappointed, but I truly thought I was going to die. <P>After that, things were OK for a while in 2000. I received the right diagnosis and proper medication for my condition, but I felt so traumatized by my experience, I did not think I could go back to work at school. I could not even drive by, let alone step foot on campus. PTSD. I didn't know what to do. I began writing on the Internet and earned a little bit of money freelancing. I did other odd jobs like working temporarily for UPS during Christmas.<P>Our marital problems mounted, and once again I asked my husband to leave last July. I told him I would only take him back if he quit drinking, because there were too many severe issues to just Al-Anon it. Nope. Not gonna do it. Well, I decided I'm not backing down either. I didn't know how my life was going to turn out, but I only saw more of the same with this man who now claims to be miraculously "changed." I thought he had some serious sexual issues and was a control freak. He is extremely pompous at times, "entitled" to have whatever he wants to have. He's also quite abusive--verbally, emotionally, physically, and sexually. Yep, he hit 'em all. The verbal and emotional were peaking to horrendous heights that I knew I was going to get clobbered instead of just pushed or whacked hard on the a$$ like I sometimes got. The sexual abuse was battery, not very severe.<P>We never could come to any agreement, and therapy did not work. Manipulations and hidden agendas abounded in counseling. I tried to tell one counselor about our domestic violence, and she claimed they were my "issues." I felt very cheated even there. My personal therapist was aghast at her biased reaction. I told my husband one day that I didn't think we'd work out, that my needs weren't being met and his probably weren't either. He thought we were doing great and was hoping to move back in before his lease ran out. I had told him what I needed, and he was not willing to do that. So, he started his exit affair.<P>He still came by the house every 2 weeks and had dinner with us and stayed. We went places together as a family. I noticed he was acting strangely. Soon, I received a spate of hate mail, castigating me and my "ocean of needs" he would never meet no matter what he did. He broke our marriage off with me by email, like we were going steady. I was astonished. He refused to see me or call me or to have any contact whatsoever. He said horrible things in his email, once sneering how I was so pure I should marry a "man of the cloth." He ripped apart my religion, my medical needs, and accused me of refusing to work (I worked 7 jobs last year and quit asking for extra money in October when he threatened to take our son away from me). I begged him to please talk to me, to please help me through this abrupt and dramatic decision. I asked him if we could divorce together. He kept me at bay. His rejection tore my heart out.<P>Whenever I talked to him, he treated me as though I had leprosy. Just arrogant and annoyed and full of hate. He always seemed to end up screaming at me. I started to notice he was losing weight, had new clothes, and was sporting a buff tan. He denied any girlfriend, just "I'm going out with a couple of people, no unrealistic expectations, no problems, and it FEELS GOOD!" I was dumbfounded. When he was calm, I asked him to meet me to discuss the divorce and how we would do it. He said OK. The day he was to call came and went, and 3 days later I sat in my lawyer's office uttering, "File."<P>Then I hired a P.I. and found out he must be seeing double, because he's seeing only one woman--a nurse from the hospital. She is me from several years ago. Long blonde hair, cute, petite (but I'm tall). She drives a nice car like I once did before he got hold of it. I see he's driving hers now, so I guess she can kiss that puppy good bye. She lives in a house worth twice what ours is, and it's in a nicer part of town. How I have begged to move. Looks like his chance to step up.<P>I guess he didn't want me finding out about the OW so I wouldn't blow his chances of moving in with her. He hasn't yet. I'm sure he is being very, very quiet about this affair at work. "Appearance is everything," he's said to me. He's not even talking about our divorce, I found out. What's up with that? I worked there for 16 years, and I know all the old timers in the department. I feel mortified that my old cronies will learn of our divorce and his new gal-pal after the fact, maybe ever after I'm gone. Whatever looks acceptable to him. <P>I write this now because I can find no dignity. I am stripped clean of my self-esteem, and it's so hard to replace. I thought my husband loved me. He says, "I'll always love you. You're my best friend." But look how he acts. It's too confusing. I cut all contact off from him. Our son would have to be dying before I call him, and he ain't busting no phone lines to get to me either.<P>So, I'm alone. No family here to help me. Crawling my way out of the well of codependency. Staying true to sobriety and medical treatment--for as long as I have insurance. Gosh, I used to be the successful one. I made all the money. I had the nice car and big apartment and all the furniture. He was living with his mother, going to school when we met. I have to get this all back.<P>I feel I need to leave. I should live closer to my family in NC. I have to find a low-stress job I can manage with benefits. I have applied to Social Security for help, but you know how long red tape can last. I'm afraid to be without health insurance. I also have to find a place to move into for my son and me. Such a tall order right now. So hard to focus on my future without being drawn back to themes of betrayal and lies. What kind of person gives up his/her family for their "right" to consume liquor? In the P.I. video, that's all he and his g/f do--go to bars, buy wine, and rent movies. Sometimes H has 2 drinks in front of him. <P>I'm looking at east Tennessee to relocate. That's close to home, but not too close. I have a former professor/friend who teaches at ETSU. I hope I can pull this off. This process is going so slow. Should I be glad or impatient? So much on my plate right now. If you made it this far, thanks for reading. I just needed to vent. Again. For the Nth time.<P>Blue Nell <P>P.S. All my notes, transcripts, and other evidence is organized in 5 giant notebooks at my lawyer's office. That's the outline for my memoirs, <I>Diary of an Even Madder Housewife.</I> <P><P>------------------<BR>One faces the future with one's past.<BR>--Pearl S. Buck

Nell, Sorry to see you here, but from your recent post on GQII, I figured you might be soon. Alcohol and drugs really seem to change everything. <P>I understand your mortification. Everyone in the small town I live in seems to already know my situation. Because of our business all 30 of our employees know and know the OW who used to work for us. Yesterday I ran into our old bookkeeper. She hasn't worked for us for about 2 years, but she asked how I was doing all alone in the house. Embarassing.<P>And I understand feeling stripped of self-esteem. I've been reading an Al-Anon book called "In All Our Affairs: Making crises work for you." It's not about infidelity, but it says that "infidelity often [goes} along with the disease of alcoholism." The part I'm struggling with is this: "I began to understand that his being involved with anyone else really had nothing to with me. I stopped feeling like such an undesirable loser." I'm not there yet.<P>And the cybersex. My H had just gotten into it. From the ones he bookmarked, it seemed he was more interested in videotaping the OW and putting her on the internet (that would at least be good for some laughs), but if he'd known about those sites your H goes to, he'd definitely be interested since he bragged that OW is bisexual and told the kids that he wanted to have sex with OW and 2 other men (he graphically described what each would be doing to her, what a great dad to share this with teenagers! He also asked my son's girlfriend where he could buy some cocaine because he had a girl who wanted to rub it all over his body).<P>I know you said you have "too many severe issues to just Al-Anon it." But, do you go to Al-Anon? It doesn't replace counseling, but it's amazingly helpful when dealing with alcoholism and it's free.

Thanks for your comfort, LetSTry. <P>What I meant about my Al-Anon remark was, if all I was dealing with was a straight forward, loving alcoholic, I would have relaxed my standards about the alcohol and adjusted my coping skills accordingly. Because so much abuse, manipulation, and sexual issues (probably the most concerning) existed, it would take a lot more than Al-Anon to make our marriage effective.<P>In Al-Anon, the focus seemed to be on the alcoholic. There were so many people in crisis there who needed to vent about their loved one. Being an emotional "sponge," I often left more upset than when I arrived. AA seemed much more supportive of me and my efforts to detach from my spouse, though they can be at times hypercritical. I think Al-Anon has been a godsend to many, and I have a lot of their literature, but I didn't feel I got much out of it. Maybe I need to give it another chance; I'm willing to try, sure. Perhaps my perspective has changed enough to where I could find value in a meeting. I'll just have to keep an eye on my sad-o-meter. <P>Nell <P>------------------<BR>One faces the future with one's past.<BR>--Pearl S. Buck

Nell...I don't know what to say, except that there is no need for you to carry <B>that</B> cross anymore. He is pushing his lack of self-esteem onto you...and you don't need that.<P>I am really getting pi$$ed these days...men...who needs'em? Oh, wait a minute, I'm a man...last time I checked, anyway...hang on a minute....yep! And wait a minute....he isn't...no need to check there.<P>Nell, I am concerned about the lack of a positive male role model in your son's life. I'm sorry to put something else on your plate...here, have some desert, too.<P>Oh, you need a friend now, dear. This medium is not enough, is it? I am praying that God send you some relief, and support...anything else in particular while I'm asking?<P>BTW, I have never viewed a naked anything on a computer, it seems ludicrous to me. Don't get me wrong...I am a healthy heterosexual male, I'd just rather it be a live, willing, loved and loving female, thank you. That is sick! Don't even get me started on the bi stuff I think it is likely that most of the people in there are 14 year old boys with nothing better to do, and not enough talent to hack!<P>Your H has taken you into the land of the morally reprehensible, and your skin is crawling. I don't blame you. What does that say about you? Not one bad thing, Nell, not one.<P>I have enjoyed your posts a great deal, you have a beautiful soul. I had wondered about your story...I don't venture outside here much...too busy running off at the mouth. Now that I have heard it, I have a newfound respect for your strength of character, your ability to find things unacceptable to you and about you, and your ability to enact positive, sustained changes. Most of all, I want to remind you that you are bigger than your problems, most of which are his problems.<P>I'd say that you could be both glad, and anxious, although I never like attaching negatives to positives...it doesn't work for me that way...how about glad and anticipating?<P>East Tennessee...they have electricity there, don't they? Oh, yeah...they do!<P>(((((((((((((( NELL )))))))))))), I wish that I could help you today, I really do. Read Psalms in its entirety, there are only 150 of them! Selah! God bless you dear lady....may your life bring you joy. -Mike

Hey Nell,<P>From what you describe, it sure sounds to me like your H has a sexual addiction. I can relate because my H has it too. Amazingly, he even admitted it to me the last time I saw him but I think he's still in denial. He doesn't see it as a problem. I've read that the disease (just like alcoholism) is progressive. The beginning signs are very subtle, then progress to riskier and riskier behavior. My H's verbal interaction (with nearly everyone) was always peppered with suggestive inuendos hidden under a mask of humor. Then it was X-rated movies-- he bought enough of them that we could have opened our own porno rental store. I didn't object because I thought he only watched them with me. Now, I'm not so sure. When I bought the PC, it didn't take him long to figure out how to get into the porno sites. In retrospect I was so dumb and naive. I thought that everyone with an internet address received mail from porno sites! Then when we got the satellite dish, he was purchasing X-rated movies while I was at work. I really wouldn't be surprised to learn that he's also involved in bi-sexual stuff. One day he was pacing the livingroom muttering to himself, "I'm gay, I'm gay". Finally, he had the affair. One thing that really haunts me is that OW has two pre-adolescent boys. My H was molested by a pedophile when he was a pre-adolescent.<P>Rest assured that you did not cause your H's problems, nor can you fix them. Have you read any books on co-dependancy? There's a good one called, "Co-dependant No More" by Melody Beattie. Also, there are support groups for people who's lives have been touched by sexual addiction. It's called COSA. You might want to look into that, instead of Alanon. And, there are some good books on sexual addiction. One that's been recommended is called, "Out of the Shadows" although I haven't read it. <P>Most of all, just know that you're not alone in this. I know it can feel humiliating. But, it's HIS problem, not yours. You said, <P>"I used to be the successful one. I made all the money. I had the nice car and big apartment and all the furniture".<P>Well, you can definitely do it again. You did it before, you can do it again. If you have no friends or family where you now live that can give you support, then moving closer to family just might be the best thing for you right now. Just don't view it as running from your problems. Look at it was moving towards something healthy and positive.<P>By the way, my H has always contended that "I'm his best friend". But, it's irrelevant because his actions contradict his words. He says he loves me but I think it's more an issue of need than anything else.<P>You CAN pull yourself out of that hole. You've already begun. Just keep the momentum going even if it's only baby steps right now. Oh, one last book that I'm finding very helpful-- Rebuilding When Your Relationship Ends by Bruce Fisher. Excellent! Can you tell I like to read?

Sidney, thanks for the info on sexual addictions. I never thought my H might have a sexual addiction until recently. He came home after 4 mos. with OW and stayed for 1.5 months, though continued to see her. He was obsessed with fantasies about me having sex with multiple partners, videotaping my "p****" for the internet, not kissing during sex, not taking his clothes off during sex, and anal sex (the same fantasies in which the OW was obviously a MUCH more willing participant). <P>I agree with w_f_h, I wanted sex to deepen the connection between me and my H, but to him it was all pornography. He'd talk through sex about what he was fantasizing other men were doing to me. NOT a turn on. After a while I couldn't even get aroused during sex and he got angry and started referring to me as "frigid." He kicked me out and moved OW in. <P>Nell, sorry to horn in on your thread, but this is something I never really considered before and so your post has been very enlightening to me. BTW, some Al-Anon meetings focus on the PROBLEM but a good Al-Anon meeting focuses on the SOLUTION by encouraging people to share what works, not just about their misery. If AA is enough, that's great. There are several AA members who regularly attend the Al-Anon meetings I go to because of relationship problems they ran into in sobriety. I always appreciate their perspective - kind of like the WS's here...

{{{{{sidney}}}}}<BR>{{{{{LetSTry}}}}}<P>I realized, <I>really</I> realized my H was a sex addict when I started coming here just a few months ago. I read Dr. Harley's words that affairs are often the result of sexual addictions, and it seems to fit my husband's case well. Years before we were married, he was getting into threesomes and group sex. He even wrote about it in his journal how I would never understand these desires he has for "exotic" sex, pornography, and erotica. I would understand them, but I would not understand wanting to continue their practice. He was not all that imaginative in the sack, so I never had a clue of his propensities. Bisexuality, group sex, adult movies, porn, is soooo not me. I don't judge anyone else for their behavior, but I never imagined my H was so inclined until a few years ago. Wanting to participate in this instantaneously made us incompatible in my book, and I let him know as much. I had suspected he was going out with some of the local bi's he'd met on the Net, even wondered if he was engaging in group sex/threesomes. I really took it all personally, and he even said he strayed because I was not meeting his needs (let's see, I wasn't meeting his needs because he wasn't meeting my needs...).<P>I've read Melody Beatty's two books and "Men Who Hate Women and the Women Who Love Them" (forget the author). I've read most of the AA "Big Book" and the Al-Anon book. I have reams of articles I've copied off the Internet and filed, so yeah, I've done some diversified reading. But I'll be honest, I have not kept up the support group scene. For 2 1/2 years I was 12-Stepped to death along with weekly, sometimes biweekly individual counseling sessions. I had marriage counseling up the wazoo that had no impact on my situation. I see a psychiatrist every month, and I take my son to see his (he gets counseling, too). I know it's not good to be isolated like I am now. I have not had the drive to go to a support group. Sometimes I wonder what good they have been for me, because my life continued to worsen while I attended. I didn't feel a great sense of improved coping abilities and felt I was working at maximum capacity. It seemed to me that everyone wanted to tell their story, and it was usually a doozie. I guess I tend to hyperfocus on tragedy, and before long I'm a sniveling mess, all absorbed in their world and mine. So, I stopped going to them. My counselor wasn't concerned, and she's an alcohol specialist. My doctor wants me to go to a divorce group, and I have been avoiding that. I will see her on Monday, so I will go ahead and give that group a go. What is going to be the most significant in my life is becoming self-supporting again. I have feelers out for jobs and housing near my folks' home, but I haven't come up with anything solid yet, and I'm getting nervous. School will start soon, and I was hoping I'd be further along in my quest by now.<P>You guys are the best. Thanks for responding to my plea for attention. This group is one of my main resources. <P>Nell <P>------------------<BR>One faces the future with one's past.<BR>--Pearl S. Buck

OK Nell,<BR>First things first- <B> YES </B> East Tennessee DOES HAVE ELECTRICITY!! We have some (not like California) and it's cheap here too! Do you hear me Mike? Yall just come un down and I'll take youuns on up to see Good Ol Dolly Parton. Seriously, I'm a Knoxville, Tn girl (it's about an hour from ETSU} and this is a good place to live. If you decide to move in this direction, just give me a call. My sister is also a special ed teacher and I know how demanding that job can be under the best of circumstances. I think Mike is right, having a support system is soo important. My family is here and I don't know what I would do without them. And my Dad and Brother-in-Law provide some Male point of view for my teenage son. One of the things that has been hardest for me is that the couples we ran around with were my STBXH's co-workers. So when he walked out I also lost people that I thought were my friends and my social life. So besides going through all this other crap, it's lonely too. You know what I mean? Not a great esteem builder. <P>I know you said that your self esteem is not so hot right now. I understand how you feel. Getting rejected by someone is the pits! Especially when they promised to love you before God through the good and the not so good. I have been stuggling with this also. The weird thing is I'm not sure why it hurts so bad. If I was just meeting my H now, he would not be someone that I would admire or really care if he thought highly of me. He is not the person I used to know, love and admire. So why do I care so much what he thinks of me and that he cast me aside? I wonder if it isn't just pride and the worry that if someone in his sad state doesn't want me, will anyone else ever? It appears that your H has some SERIOUS sexual issues he needs to deal with. I doubt he will quit drinking as long as he has not addressed these. YOU HAVE been trying to address your issues. And that shows dignity in my book. So what do you think? Could we both be wanting approval from men that just aren't worth it - at least right now? Apparently entirely too much of my self confidence is wrapped around his feelings of and for me. I've begun to suspect that this is a byproduct of long term marriages. Is that how you feel? Instead of just saying "He's turned into someone I wouldn't want to be around - so what do I care if he is not interested in me" to wanting to try to fix their pain. Sidney is right. You didn't cause his problems and you can't fix them. <P>You are getting a handle on getting your life to a better place, but Sidney is right, your H hasen't even driven to the parking lot, much less entered the building. <P>Well, I'm writing a book here. Take heart. It sounds like you are making headway to more joy and peace in your life. And we are here for you to vent to. ((((((Nell)))))))<P>And if you decide on East Tennessee, you get in touch with me, OK.<P>See Ya,<BR>Lisa<P><P>------------------<BR>Character is determined by what you do when no one is watching.

{{{{{Lisa}}}}}<P>Cool beans! I have another friend from my bipolar group who is from Knoxville! And she is a scream, let me tell you!<P>I think you described the codependent state very well. I HATE that my feelings of self-worth are not auto-generated, but derived by the feelings I receive from my H. Probably how I got hooked so long ago.<P>I've been subbing in adult ed. for a friend on vacation. I've been doing this for a while, and I love it. I have been all over TN's department of education trying to find out how to apply for a position like that. Found some names of directors I emailed, but I haven't heard back. Can you ask your sis if she knows anything about it/who to contact, etc? My email is BelleNelle@aol.com<P>Thanks for the uplifting post! I feel a little energy coming on! Maybe I'll...go wash the dishes. <P>Nell <P>------------------<BR>One faces the future with one's past.<BR>--Pearl S. Buck

Hi Nell,<P>I just spent about 45 minutes responding to you, and the %^&*^%$^&*& computer knocked me off and didn't sent it, so here goes again.<P>I will be glad to ask my sister about who to call. She will probably only know about Knoxville though. Do you have an education degree? I'm asking because there is also a community college in Knoxville that offers both credit and noncredit courses. Of course I don't think that you need an education degree for the noncredit courses. Even if they can't help you, they also may be able to point you in the right direction. Their E-mail address is <A HREF="http://www.pstcc.cc.tn.us/bcs." TARGET=_blank>www.pstcc.cc.tn.us/bcs.</A> And their phone number is (865) 694-6663. My e-mail address is L2Lisa59@aol.com <BR>I'm going to go ahead and send this and check to make sure the other post did not go through and I'm duplicating myself. I'll be back in a minute.<P>Lisa <P>------------------<BR>Character is determined by what you do when no one is watching.

<BR>Nell,<P>I am going to have to throw my computer against the wall now. I have tried to send this post 4 times and AOL keeps knocking me off. So if I repeat myself, I apologize. I can't remember what I have written now.<P>I wanted to ask how your son is doing with all this. I cannot remember if you said how old he is and if he lives with you or not. My children are teenagers so I don't have to worry about the custody stuff. My H has not spoken to them in 6 months, so I guess I won't have to share Oh well, his loss. He actually told me that he had not bothered to contact them at all because he is afraid of rejection. OK - so he rejected 2 children just in case they might reject him...Who is the grown-up here!!!!! If I met him today for the first time, I would not be very impressed. I think that is why I am mystified that his rejection of me bothers me. He is not someone I would want to hang around with.<P>My husband was also into pornography. I am not a prude and I LIKE SEX, but he could not understand that I felt pornography erodes the intimacy of sex. I guess that is the difference between men and women, I don't know. Or maybe it's just me. And if my H talked about other men in bed, that sure would not light my fire!!! It's embarrassing, but I worry that my sex life is over. I'm 40 and this is supposed to be my time DOGGONE IT!!!! I just hope that I haven't taken my last romantic vacation, you know what I mean?<P>Nell, you should be proud of how you have handled improving your life so far. I think it takes courage and character to acknowledge weaknesses and address them. Sounds like dignity to me. Maybe that is why your H is behaving to badly right now. It is hard to see someone behaving with courage when you have none. So you hang in there girl. I guess God is just taking us down a new, scary and interesting road. Have you read AGoodManInTexas's post titled "Words that get me through all this"? I printed it and get it out when all this stuff overwhelms me.<P>Well, I am going to try AGAIN to submit this. If it does not go through I am going to have to force down a whole batch of chocolate chip cookies!! <P>If my sister learns anything helpful I'll let you know. Keep in touch!<P>See Ya,<BR>Lisa<P>------------------<BR>Character is determined by what you do when no one is watching.

Nell,<BR> Sounds like you are getting it all out...that is soooo good. Am I correct in assuming that you were a little overwhelmed with all the various counselings, and such? Sometimes, I come to the realization that I just need to shut up, sit down, and let it out whatever (non-violent) way it comes...except that I give in to my tongue's desire to rage, and its a little like having temporary Turrets' Syndrome (sp?)! I just make sure that I am in the 'Cone of Silence' then ...I'd rather it come out in that way, than at my XW, or the OM.<P>Yes, Lisa...I was trying to draw you out...like I needed to! Truth is, I am from the Shenandoah Vally in Va originally...so I am the hick here, thank y'all very much! TVA is alive and well, and I am sorry to have insulted you'uns, too! Yeeehaw! -Mike

<BR>Hey Mike,<BR>I wasen't insulted, I just couldn't resist teasing you!! Shenandoah Valley you say. Beautiful country! We are a little "country" down this way but if it's good enough for Faith Hill, I guess it's good enough for me! In my high school our school nick name was the "Farragut Farmers", so what can I say other than "pass me the pole beans Maw" before I head out to feed the pigs. HeeHeeHee<BR>As long as the politicians can keep from passing a state income tax I'll be happy. <P>Nell,<BR>How are you doing today? I was about ready to murder my computer last night. I really don't have anything interesting to say, I just couldn't resist responding to Mike - that silly man! <BR>I am going to see my sister tonight for dinner so I will let you know if she can give me any information on the job front.<BR>Got to go work out my computer aggressions on the tread mill. See Ya,<P>Lisa <P>------------------<BR>Character is determined by what you do when no one is watching.

Nell, How are you? I don't mean to harp on the support group thing. I'm not really a group person myself, though I joined a cancer support group during treatment and in fact, I'm going to brunch with several friends from that group this morning. I like Al-Anon for the first time in a long time. I finally feel comfortable there. In the past I've gone like taking medicine. A counselor who I went to last year sent me to a divorce group and talk about depressing, I left after the first meeting! Every woman in there, and it was all women, was left by her H after he had an affair, and that coincidence was just glossed over. One woman just sat and cried and never spoke. How about your bipolar group? Is that an on-going thing? I think groups can be overdone, too, so if that one's enough just ignore me, ok?<P>Lisa, I have to agree:<P><<My husband was also into pornography. I am not a prude and I LIKE SEX, but he could not understand that I felt pornography erodes the intimacy of sex. I guess that is the difference between men and women, I don't know. Or maybe it's just me. And if my H talked about other men in bed, that sure would not light my fire!!!>><P>I was having a hard time getting turned on at all during sex while he was fantasizing about what other men were doing to me at the same time... So what did he do? Call me frigid and use it to prove I'm not attracted to him and don't love him.<P>I know what you mean about not liking him if you met today, though my H tends to pour on the charm at first and save the rest for later. My H avoided our teenagers for 4 months for fear of rejection and then when he briefly came home, gave them marijuana to get them to like him and at the same time talked about how close he'd become to OW's 4 year old D and how much he missed her. Then he threw them out of the house after throwing me out because they wouldn't "love" the OW like he did. Needless to say, he didn't make a great impression.<P>I wish I was only 40... I'm turning 50 in about 3 weeks and am in remission from breast cancer and I also feel sad about the thought of no more romantic weekends - though even when we went away together my H wouldn't have sex with me. BTW, I'm still reasonably attractive, for my age, petite, work out and although OW is less than 1/2 my age she is more than twice my weight and since moving in with my H, she has a butch haircut. But, she's into kinky sex...

Gosh, you guys are the best!<P>You asked, and I'm gonna tell ya, I don't feel fer chit today. My H has our son (who is 10, incidentally), and life just feels hopeless right now. I'll admit it--I still love my husband. I can see the irrationality in that to also say I wouldn't reconcile, even if he wanted me [weak smile]. This whole damm situation is because I won't take him back drinking. Period. I can forgive and negotiate everything else, but unless he gets sober, life is one giant smoke screen at our house. I have to remember the disrespectful ways he treated me the past several years. I worked on myself; I tried to become a better person. He didn't like the person I became, because I grew more honest and forthright. He wanted to continue life with his imaginary facades, ulterior motives, and selfish "needs." He joined me in none of my pursuits, which is perfectly OK according to support group dogma. I'm not talking about becoming a vegetarian and expecting him to stop eating meat. I'm talking about quitting the behaviors that support a dishonest, selfish lifestyle that almost killed me. He feels that taking his vices outside the home should be enough. Well, I tried that. I was completely left out of his social life, especially when he continued to work night shift and sleep during the day. What was I even around for? I'm giving you a simplistic view of what was going on around here. You'll have to trust me that I was involved in support groups, psychiatric care, counseling, reading--just everything I could involve myself in to save my marriage and my family. <P>Talk about codependent. Our marriage and family did not come first with my husband. These things came first: his night-shift job, his endeavors to become a music producer (including maintaining the recording studio he helped build in someone's garage and the recording equipment he uses at home), his mother's needs for monetary assistance no matter how strapped we are, his "right" to drink alcohol, his need to stay uninvolved in the church my son and I attend (he has direct access to God, you know), and his need to stay in Florida so he can accomplish all the above. He wrote all this down for me one day when we decided to exchange needs. These are non-negotiable. My importance follows this list. Gee, that felt good to write. I stopped crying. Whadda dipwad. My needs were considered if they feel between the levels of child care and laundry. <P>My son seems to be doing fine and is looking forward to a new life closer to my family. He has grandparents, cousins up there his own age and other young relatives. Down here, he has an 83 y.o. deaf grannie who can barely walk and "Uncle Bubba," another denizen from the Wonderful World of Alcoholics (grannie quit drinking a while back and grandpa kacked off a long time ago from alcoholic cirrhosis).<P>But, my husband can control his drinking, he says.<P>He is counter-suing me for custody, child support, and his lawyer's fees. He doesn't know I have a video of him cramming his tongue down his g/f's throat, and them drinking, drinking, drinking, spending our marital assets. Oh, and he drove her car after drinking. Oh, and he's had 2 DUI's a loooong time ago (one was changed to reckless). I have that report, too. Will the judge allow our son to be taken from his sole caregiver the past year to live in a home of questionable moral character, fraught with booze? Not in Florida. He's gotta prove me an unfit parent first. He's gonna play the bipolar card, but I'll haul that whole clinic in there first. I'm compliant and I keep my appointments. I'm stable, no thanks to him.<P>Vent, vent, vent. What else did you ask, Lisa? I'm glad your computer is still among the cyberlife. I have a BS degree in exceptional education (special ed. in TN), specific learning disabilities. I'll work in a laundromat before I go back into a public classroom, though. I can't take that stress. I'm not trying to be crude, but resussitating babies was easier than working in the public school system. I can handle adults. I'd love a job at the community college level, or even GED prep. I'm a whiz at teaching reading and writing. I'm subbing at the adult ed. center next week.<P>Mike, yeah the support groups grew emotionally heavy for me. Temporary Turret's, indeed! I suppose that's better than temporary insanity or demonic possession (was that an oxymoron?).<P>LetSTry, I'm right behind ya at 46. Right now, I think I lack the veneer for Al-Anon. Sponsees are not always treated with tact and kindness here, and I don't feel safe in those meetings. I've extended my soul only to be curtly judged how I "need" to be feeling and what I "need" to be doing for total, healthy detachment. I'm not up to that level, yet. Right now, I just go to 3 support groups online, but I know I need face-to-face interactions with friends.<P>And until then, you are my friends. <P>XXOOXXOO,<BR>Nell <P>------------------<BR>One faces the future with one's past.<BR>--Pearl S. Buck

Sorry that you are having it so rough. <P>Well. I am normally a lurker here but to see mention of ETSU I had to come out. East Tenn is a nice place to live. This is from someone who has 2 degrees from that institution. <P>Being close to your family will give you a much better support system to bothe deal with the divorce and with your alcohol problem. I do not know what I would have done without my family and friends<P>

Hi Nell... thanks for sharing your background. How difficult for you. I'm praying for God's peace and that He would bless or block your way into East Tennessee... Remember that if God says 'NO' He has a greater 'YES' waiting in the wings....<P>Thanks again for your comments that I've followed through out the post. Keep us posted on how things progress for you. Do what you need to do for you and for your child. God bless!<P>Nicole<P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17

Thanks so much everyone for your prayers and support. It really makes a difference knowing I have you to rely on for some comfort.<P>My son spent the weekend at his father's. Said H had papers strewn all over the bedroom floor, worse than I did last month! He is really behind getting his mandatory papers in--disclosures, interrogatories, affidavits, etc. I'm ready to roll here, been ready for several weeks. Son also said H asked him if I was still seeing a psychiatrist. Well, duuuuuh. Don't know if he's gonna go after me for going or not going. Maybe both. This is so cruel of him to pull the mental health card out over custody. I know I could squash that argument to pieces with IDEA behind my back. I might have problems, but I'm stable. I wonder how he'd like to hear the pdoc and therapist tell the judge how much my entire treatment protocol had to do with HIM. And you know, I just want a little help developing another career (at 46, my 3rd). I have SSI pending, but I don't really want that. I want to be self-sufficient and independent. The less I have to do with H the better, but he's always said, "You can't make it without me." Wonder how that happened. > <P>And I saw the pdoc today. She is lovely, so supportive of my son and me. She does NOT want my 10-year old son out of my custody. She was so worried about Cody last month (he gave his father money to help buy some trashy toy H could have bought himself) she ordered him into counseling, and he's not even her patient! Son is treated by another pdoc for ADHD. Anyway I'm stable, sad but stable. Said she would have the staff call me about an appropriate support group. My therapist called later and said she had a small women's support group, very uplifting, and some members were bipolar! My people! Cool beans. I wanna make some flesh and blood friends, I really do. They'd complement my cyber buddies. <P>You're the best,<BR>Nell