Ok, I feel kinda stupid and need to get some help with setting boundaries. It has occurred to me that I don't know how to do this. I'm also having trouble figuring out the difference between boundaries and qualifications. From everything I have read here and on verbal abuse sites, there isn't much hope of having a peaceful life with my husband unless he will agree to counseling and follow through with it. I cannot separate myself from him physically nor he from me due to lack of money so I'm thinking that an in-house separation is the only way to go right now. I have no idea how to handle that though. I tell him that he must get counseling or it is ended, right? Isn't that like an ultimatum though and aren't we not supposed to issue ultimatums? HELP!

Hi C-cake (mmm, sounds good)...<P>Anyway, do you have access to a library or to a bookstore... a book I highly, HIGHLY recommend is called <I>Should I Stay or Go: Controlled Separation</I>. So, please start this book and see if it has any ideas for you.<P>I've been going to be going through in-house separation for a while now and we're just moving into a duplex - an old house sub-divided. So, we'll see how this goes. It's my H's decision and for the kid's sake, I'm willing to go along with it.<P>Take care and please one step at a time. Get yourself equipped/prepared by reading up on this and trying to establish boundaries. I would lean away from ultimatums for now, until you've tried everything you can. In the meantime, work on what you need to do for yourself to preserve your sanity, and ANY love left that you might have for your H in order to deal sanely and even kindly with him over these next few months... it's a very rocky road.<P>Are you going to Church somewhere? Do you have a network of friends/family that you can do things with - just anything to take your mind off your situation albeit briefly?! That has been my blessing - friends just to go have a coffee with or a walk. Be careful though to whom you share your thoughts with... it can damage your relationship with that person as well as damage the reputation of your H in their eyes... this is not something God would have you do. You will need to process things just choose wisely to whom and what you share.<P>Blessings!<P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17

Who <I>doesn't</I> need help with boundaries? A dear sweet soul saw me posting in the Bible study forum last year. She could see how desperately I needed help and bought me a copy of Boundaries in Marriage by Townsend and Cloud. They also have an earlier book Boundaries. I still don't quite "get it". <P>Effective boundaries are not control over other people though. They are all about you. I too am at a point where I want to tell my H, get some professional help or I'm outta here. It's an ultimatum for sure. My counsellor said ultimatums have their place and time. She suggested to avoid ultimatums unless you're ready to enforce them immediately. Besides, it's not a proper boundary because it's about him, not me. I'm not at a point where I've figured out boundaries nor at a point where I can separate. Things are reallll quiet around here lately. <P>I started with Boundaries in Marriage book and am reading Boundaries right now. I highly recommend both. There's one part in Boundaries that I just simply don't know what to do (T&C make many biblical references btw). In James it says to tell each other our "lacks" so that we may heal and become whole, and we have a responsibility to confront evil behavior. Confronting my H about anything more substantial than what's for dinner usually ends up with me being put through a verbal shredding machine. In one way, I feel like I'm protecting myself from his harsh words by keeping quiet. But I also know I'm avoiding issues that need to be addressed. <P>There's a big thread about boundaries in the bible study section. I'll try to find it and bring it to the top.

Coffeecake, <P>I have experience with both verbal abuse and setting boundaries, so I'm going to take a stab at talking to ya.<P>In my situation, I have been married for 14 years, and for most of those years, my H was verbally abusive to me, I just didn't recognize it for what it was. That's because, when I was a kid, I was physically abused, and I suppose part of me thought, "At least I'm not being hit!" Anyway, it took a long time for me to accept the fact that I was not "to blame" or "responsible" when my H chose to rage, and it took even longer to accept the fact that I was worth too much to accept being raged at. Poor grammar, but you get the idea. <P>Anyway, I read the book called "Boundaries in Marriage" by Townsend and Cloud that lonesome heart told you about, and it opened my eyes to a couple of things. First, no matter how much I may try and want to, I can not change the way my H chooses to behave. What I mean is that, naturally, if I am b*tchy, it's more likely that he will be crabby too. BUT, just because I "follow his rules" or act or look or do things the way he wants, that does not "make" him love me nor "make" him mad at me. That would mean I have an AWFUL lot of control if it did! No, I may be perfect in every way, but he may still choose to be angry, verbally abusive and rage at me, because of something IN HIM. Now, I know your head will understand this, but getting your HEART to believe this is a whole 'nother deal. You can NOT "make" him do anything--including love you!!<P>Next, boundaries are NOT about making ultimatums and laying down rules that he has to live by. It is about discovering what YOUR boundaries are. For example, envision that you are discovering where the little fence around your heart lies. If the person in your life choses not to cross that fence, you are safe and relatively happy, but if they chose to cross that boundary, knowing that it is a boundary for you, then you are unsafe and probably afraid. <P>Let me give you a person example. One of my boundaries is that I am too valuable to be raged at--and if my H chooses to rage at me, then the consequence of this choice is that I will withdraw from him emotionally until he proves to me that it is safe to once again connect to him. Now, I am in no way telling my H that he "can not" rage against me, nor am I saying that I am going to "make" him speak kindly to me. Oh no!!! He is absolutely free to make any decision that he chooses. The difference is that there is a consequence to his actions.<P>Now, here is the tricky part. When you first start to discover what your boundaries are, and when you first start to share with your H what the consequences are, he will probably say something like, "You are punishing me. That is nothing but a list of punishments for misbehaving, as if I am a child." But, really, nothing could be further from the truth. The REAL truth is that for YEARS he has gotten away with poor behavior and poor choices, and he has not had to pay the consequences for his own choices. Either you came along and cleaned up after him -or- you never inflicted consequences. How many times has he been embarrassing to the waitress in a restaurant, and then you went and gave the waitress a little extra tip--or said, "I'm sorry he was such a jerk"?? See?? No consequences!! So by saying now that ABC are your boundaries, and XYZ are the consequences, this is not punishing. He is perfectly free to choose to NOT cross the boundaries. He absolutely has the right to choose to cross the boundaries, but FROM THIS MOMENT FORWARD, YOU WILL NOT LET HIM GET AWAY WITH IT FOR FREE. <P>I know this may sound harsh, and it probably sounds really hard to do. You have to have some courage and backbone to enforce those consequences and be consistent and fair, but here's the thing, coffeecake. It is a loving thing to let your H learn the lesssons that he should learn when he behaves poorly. I know it sounds a little backwards, but you are actualy being much more loving if you let him learn from his choices than if you just cover up for him. He will learn and grow and mature as a person--or else he will get a fractured skull from being hit on the head with a frying pan (haha). Either way, he will be a better man! And the MOST love we can show our spouses is to do what is in their best interests, whether they like it or not. <P>Well, good luck. If--well, not if, but when you have more questions, just write!! <P><BR>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

CJ - thanks for this. It was immensely useful and my food for thought all day.<P>Cheers!<P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17

Thank you all for your help and sorry I wasn't able to thank you earlier. New job and reprogramming the computer has kept me busy. I have a lot to think about and the books seem like a good way to get a grip on how to handle things. I'll keep in touch. God Bless!