This is my first visit to the MB BB. Seeking the insight/input of others in a similar situation (past or present) to myself.<P>My husband and I will be married 18 years in another month. We have 3 great teenagers who we are both very proud of. We have been blessed with good health, good friends, good jobs/incomes, a beautiful home, etc. In December 2000, he told me "I'm not happy" and "I don't know if we an work things out." I was totally and completely surprised/shocked. 3 weeks prior to this we had taken a 5 day trip to Las Vegas and Palm Springs-just the two of us. Nice, romantic vacation,or so I thought. Went to counseling 6 times, but "John" refused to go after 6 visits. Currently we are living in the same house, co-existing and living pretty much separate lives.<P>Currently, "John" says he's not happy, but doesn't know why, doesn't know what he needs or wants to be happy, refuses to seek counseling individually or jointly, refuses to attend any type of seminar (such as Dr. Harley's), refuses to listen to any tapes, view the MB website or read any books. Really just doesn't want to do anything to try and work on the relationship in any way. He says "let's just give it time and see if things get better." This isn't going to happen without some work/effort on both our parts. <P>There was no major precipitating event to any of this. I am as sure as I can be that he isn't having any affair. Mostly, he is a workaholic and derives all self-esteem and self-identity from his work. He is "The boss" at work, in charge of the entire company. "John" comes from a highly dysfunctional family. Father was a recovering alcoholic, 2 brothers are currently actively drinking alcoholics and there is much family turmoil in other ways. "John's" father died 4/00, sister comitted suicide in 9/00 and sister-in-law also hung herself the day before Christmas. <P>In my opinion "John" is in a mid-life crisis. Of course,he denies this, denies he could possibly be depressed, says he knows that he has some habits he could change (like constantly interrupting me during coversations for our entire 19 yr relationship) but refuses to even try to stop because "He doesn't want to." <P>I am not sure I even want to continue to try to resolve our problems and work toward a reconciliation, but even if I do,<BR>I am the only partner in the marriage interested in trying. we have discussed divorce as a possibility and frankly, I am leaning towards this as an option because I just can't live like this anymore. Being single the rest of my life would be better than this.<P>Any thoughts/comments/advice? I deeply appreciate anyone's input. Thanks for listening.

First off, welcome to the site. There are a lot of really good friends here who will give you honest opinions and advice. <P>Frankly I’m disappointed that you see divorce as an option at this point. That truly is sad and I’m quite sure that it would be devastating on your children. I wise person once told me the “Happiness is not a by-product of divorce”. As someone who recently got a divorce against my will, I can tell you that person was so right on.<P>Mid-Life crisis, depression, or whatever he is still the man who you said you’d love, honor, for better, for worse, in sickness, and in health until death us do part. I respectfully, disagree that if you’re the only one trying that your marriage can’t work. Read through these pages and implement a “Plan A”. You can only control yourself but you can influence others around you with your behavior and attitude.<P>Take things real slow before you make any decision that you may regret later. I’m telling the Legacy of Divorce is one that hurts so many people needlessly.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

Ditto what Bill said. Go to counseling alone if you must, to learn how to deal with your emotions and help you cope.<P>Even though you don't think there is an affair, this is always a possibility. Many people (myself included) had no idea our spouses were having affairs. Our spouses insisted that there was no one else, and many did not find out until later that there had been, indeed, another person. Affairs and mid-life crisis often go together. The fact that he has no interest whatsoever, and says that nothing will make things better would lead me to strongly suspect that he has formed another relationship. Be alert and watch for further signs. And keep posting here. There are so many wonderful people here who have been through this terrible thing called divorce, and would like to see others avoid it, if possible.<P>Best Wishes and Prayers - Lady M

Hi NurseBo,<BR> <BR> I have to agree withLady M. The things he is saying, especially out of the blue are big red flags....and those having an affair can be expert at hiding things.<P>Look very closely, since there are so many of us that have been blindsided....I can't think of one case where there wasn't someone else....(not to say it couldn't be)....Keep posting.....maybe someone else has a differnt idea....LU<P><BR>

Hi,<P>Welcome to the MB... I am a junior member too. I also have a John who sounds almost like your John. <P>After reading your post I must say that divorce is not an easy way out as the members have iterated. It hurts everyone and it will not necessarily make you happy. Divorce is a terrible option and should definately not be your first option.<P>I know from experience that you can not make "John" do anything he does not want to do. Am I right?<P>Trying to make him seek counseling or read books or this web site will not do anything but make him feel more pressured. I would like to suggest you read the posting, "Excerpt from Love Must be Tough". It's under your posting. <P>I think it might be a good idea for you to take a step back and work on yourself. This is the advise I was given on numerous occasions, but I insisted that I could change my John. NOT!!!<P>1Peter talks about a wife winning her husband over by her chase behavior. Also, you "can" work on the realtionship by yourself. Because you and God are a majority and He can do anything but fail. I know you must know that. But you can't force anybody really. If you force and they comply, they are complying under duress. Then that makes a person bitter and resentful. <P>I am currently having counseling for myself. I am here in this forum. I counsel with many in hopes that I will not completely loose my husband. He has filed for divorce and the papers have been signed. It will be approximatley 8 weeks before I am no longer his wife. It is devastating. I have been with my h for 21 years. We would have been married 16 years in October 2001. But I won't get to celebrate my 16th wedding anniversary. How sad.<P>There are many more options to consider at this stage. Look into them. Listen to wise counsel, and take the "positive" steps suggested to you to save your marriage. Not only for you, but for everyone this could touch emotionally. <P>Also, I would like to suggest that if you don't think your h is having an affair, don't toy with the notion. Affairs are real, but concentrating on wheter or not he is having an affair will not help you in the least. It will just cause you to focus on him and not you...<P>

Nursebo,<P>I'm one of the "oldies" from this board, having been here about a year. First, let me say "welcome" - second, sorry you're here.<P>Third, the words "my husband/wife said, 'I'm just not happy'" have been typed on more introductory posts since I've been here than I can count. I can think of three people on this forum right off the bat (me included) who said those very words...my point is <B>you are not alone</B>.<P>Separation/divorce follow some very predictable patterns unfortunately...often times it is an affair (as many posters before me suggested) - but that is not always the case. Depression also is a huge factor because the one who is suffering it often doesn't/can't see it. 3 deaths in your H's family in one year? Duh! I believe it was a similar situation that triggered my exH's midlife meltdown.<P>Do some reading on the informational side of the website...educate yourself...get counseling to decide exactly what it is you want/need and <B>then</B> start making decisions about what to do.<P>There is a lot of wise counsel on this forum...listen to it and take advantage of it.<P>Good luck and keep us posted.<P>Lisa

Hello All:<p>It has been 10 months since I posted my original letter here. This was my original and only posting. I'm back because I need support and advice. I hope someone can give me some feedback.<p>My situation is not improved. "John" and I are still living separate lives while residing in the same house. (He sleeps on the couch-for about a year now.) "John" spends more time at work than ever. His perspective is "There's nothing to be at home for so why not go to work, it keeps my mind occupied." Since my original posting I have attended a divorce support group at a church. The program is called "Divorce Care" and I would highly recommend it to anyone involved in a divorce. It is a national program that individual churches can impelement.<p>I have sought individual counseling at my church and the counselor even said "There's nothing else you can do or try."<p>I still don't know if I really want my marriage to work. "John" says he doesn't unless I will "accept him as he is" I'm so frustrated from hearing that statement!<p>"Accepting him as he is" means accepting the fact that he does not want a close, intimate marriage but rather a "superficial" one. (These are his words.) "John" has explained to me that he does not need the amount and degree of intimacy (emotional, psychological, spiritual, recreational and physical) that I need. If I accepted these terms of the relationship I would be miserable. <p>"Accepting him as he is" also means he absolutely sill not talk about certain issues with me and that he will decide what the "certain issues" are. The "certain issues" are subjects that he is not comfortable discussing. At the top of the non-discussable issues list is Christianity/spirituality. I am a serious believer (basic Christian, no denomination) and "John" is Catholic. I would enjoy being able to talk about our respective faiths, opinions, beliefs, etc. His reply to me is "My religion is none of your business, it's between me and God and I'm not going to discuss it with you." <p>There are many other issues that are off limits as well. I'm a very verbal person and enjoy conversation. My husband is the oppostite. I need intimacy of all kinds, and "John" doesn't. I know I cannot change him, but am so unhappy living like this. Well-meaning and caring family and friends have advised me to move on. They say "He's never going to change." "John" himself says "I'm never going to change. Either accept me as I am or forget it."<p>"John" is beginning to drink more and more and this scares me given the fact that he has two brothers who are actively drinking alcoholics and his dad was alcoholic as well (dad went through treatment 7 or 8 times and spent several months in jail before he was willing to stop.) <p>I know I am not without responsibility to some degree, but I believe (and "John" agrees) that our differences and problems stem from the fact we are VERY different kinds of people with vey different backgrounds, families of origin, desires/wants/needs/expectations. Overall, I have been a good and loving wife and tried to make the best of things. I have tried and tried to reach "John" by talking. We have agreed to divorce and he says "That's fine with me." <p>I don't want to spend the rest of my life with a man who doesn't want to be close to me, listen to me, share life with me, works 60 hours a week, etc. I belive the time has come that I must make a decision and I don't see any hope that he will ever be interested in caring about me or meeting any of my needs. <p>Again, I sincerely appreciate any thoughts, opinions, ideas or advice. Thank you.<p>Met 7/8/82
Married 8/12/83
3 kids: 18 yo son, 16 and 14 yo daughters
Living separate lives in the same house but emotionally divorced

Sorry for your troubles.<p>From a guy that has been there, sort of - your John is in crisis whether he wants to admit it or not. The crisis apears to be depression. There are a couple great books on male depression, one I recently saw at a local Christian book store. One I bought from Amazon called Behind the mask of male depression (I believe) I do not believe in MLC. From the events you speak of he sounds like he is having a hard time dealing with things in his life and is isolating himself from everything in an effort to cope. <p>I will give you my own perspective based on what I wish my WW would have done. Recognize the symptoms, read about it and understand it. Committ yourself to helping him through it rather than throwing in the towel and the M.<p>I am scared for your H. And my heart hurts for how this has affected you. But, in my humble opinion you have a choice to make. As a Christian, you have made a committment. You can realize that there may be reasons for his behavior that you do not understand (and that he does not understand) and committ yourself to do everything possible that you can to save things. <p>If I am being preachy, I am sorry I do not mean to. This is a difficult time, but it is a cross road. Will you fight or will you flee. The enemy is trying hard to take what he can. <p>It is also possible that your H has become involved, but I suspect he is primarily having a hard time dealing with life. You also need to Guard your heart at this time and not be tempted. Remember, "God hates divorce". <p>I really wish my WW would have understood and tried rather than becoming involved outside our M. It is hard to committ yourself to someone who has hurt you. But what is the right thing? Please pray about it and talk to others like your pastor. You may also want to read Love must be tough by Dobson. But seriously, get a book on male depression.<p>I will pray for you!<p>WWJD<p>John

NurseBo,<p>Sorry that you have felt the need to come back---that things haven't improved. I know it's disheartening; I've been there.<p>I would disagree with what Lost Husband said last year to an extent. Just getting a divorce does not make you happy---it's very sad for all of us---but if you just cannot work it out, divorce does open the door for you to stop being miserable and to pursue the dream of happiness.<p>I was married 18 years the first time, too and I know how hard it is to even think of all the changes you'll be making. But my xh hurt me so many times in so many lovely ways--example-we went to counseling and the counselor said for me to tell me about xh. I said he's a good father, hard worker, honest,--a couple of other things. Then it was his turn. Counselor said tell me one good thing about your w. X said 'there's nothing.' Do you hear the sound of a nail being hammered into the marriage coffin?--my x slept on the couch for the last 7 years we were married. He very much liked living single in a family environment. He felt like he could do as he pleased and still have his little family waiting at home. NOT!!! Never, ever, ever told me he loved me. Never valued me in anyway...in fact, his pet name for me was "She-Devil". Isn't that nice? And like your husband, flat out told me he didn't think HE needed to change anything....I was the one with the problems.
So, I divorced him and met a man who tells me everyday that he loves me. On the rare occasions we been apart for a night, told me he missed me. Pays me compliments all the time. Buys me flowers. Spoils my little brat girl. Asks me to sit with him to watch tv rather than moves away when I sit next to him like x did. Smokes outside to prevent me and daughter having to breathe it---her own father won't do that for her even after the doctor asked him to many times. Gad, x is such a jerk. <p>Alas, I never learned anything about marriage and good communication and still had a big chip on my shoulder from the first marriage and the second one suffered from my ignorance to the point of both h and I having affairs and coming to the brink of divorce many times.<p>Divorce is never easy but sometimes it is the only thing.<p>I think your husband is depressed and in denial over the losses he has suffered. I know you want to help but sometimes people just won't let us. I think at this point, if you still think you can save it, you have to Plan A---work on yourself, make yourself happy, be kind to him and work on bettering the marriage...that's what I did and before long my husband (the new one) began to respond in kind. He never came to MB or went to MC but he has changed all the same.<p>If this still doesn't work, then maybe it will be time to think of what you need to do to make your life a 'life' and not just an existence.<p>[ May 28, 2002: Message edited by: franklymydears ]</p>