After a bad start to my day, my H sent me an email in reply to the one I sent him a week ago saying I was letting go. First he thanked me for the email, then says he has "some severe regrets about ending the marriage" and then asked that we talk to work out the future for the kids. Not for our marriage, without saying it, he did strongly imply. I don't KNOW what to do int the future and I don't want him to dictate it for me. And I am also not eady to talk about divorce. I am still too raw. <P>What do people discuss in such a situation...I have a vague idea money and financial things will come up, but I don't know what he should be doing for us. I don't know if I can keep my LB's under control and I just don't want to divorce him or him me. I am really, really needing help today!

Nina,<P>I haven't followed your story so I really don't know where your at. I do know the feeling of not being able to talk about the divorce. My divorce is actually final and I still don't like to talk about issue's. We have to talk in mediation on Wednesday to go over custody & financial issues and I just know that's going to be rough. But reality of the matter is that if it's going to happen then you need to prepare. You have your interests and the interests of your children to worry about.<P>Remember that which doesn't kill us, makes us stronger.<P>Hugs, Thoughts, & Prayers<P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

Thanks Bill. My H is Bill, too. <P>I really don't know where to begin. If I go back to Australia, I will be without a job, so for a while at least totally dependant on him. I made a list of all expenses likely to incur and it was so frightening....to live over there at the same standard as here (South Africa) would probably take most of his salary. I feel that he hasn't thought of this much at this stage, but also at this stage it isn't going to make much difference. I am so scared to go back there alone. It has only been two weeks since we separated. I know all you guys here have had to make the same step, but it is just so hard. I fel like he left me, but also he's booting me out. And now it seems he can't wait for us to go. Such rejection.<P>I had a bad bad day and the kids picked it up. Not one of the three ate supper, and two have tummy problems. How do you survive, when you know every emotion you feel is going to get picked up by the kids?<P>I am so flat and have such a really worthless feeling. I knew there were issues in our marriage, but I didn't know the depth because he never spoke about it. I feel really cheated now that he just says I've had enough of trying, and it's the end. What was so bad that he couldn't talk to me about it?

Thanks Bill. My H is Bill, too. <P>I really don't know where to begin. If I go back to Australia, I will be without a job, so for a while at least totally dependant on him. I made a list of all expenses likely to incur and it was so frightening....to live over there at the same standard as here (South Africa) would probably take most of his salary. I feel that he hasn't thought of this much at this stage, but also at this stage it isn't going to make much difference. I am so scared to go back there alone. It has only been two weeks since we separated. I know all you guys here have had to make the same step, but it is just so hard. I fel like he left me, but also he's booting me out. And now it seems he can't wait for us to go. Such rejection.<P>I had a bad bad day and the kids picked it up. Not one of the three ate supper, and two have tummy problems. How do you survive, when you know every emotion you feel is going to get picked up by the kids?<P>I am so flat and have such a really worthless feeling. I knew there were issues in our marriage, but I didn't know the depth because he never spoke about it. I feel really cheated now that he just says I've had enough of trying, and it's the end. What was so bad that he couldn't talk to me about it?

((((Nina))))<P>Geez, I wish I could offer more advise but this is just a terrible situation for any one to be in. In regards to the children, I just don't know. I chose to mask my pain, for the most part, in front of the children. Sure we had crying sessions together, but that was on their issues with the divorce not mine. I think during this time of despair in their lives, they need to see you as a strong person and get the reassurance that they need to heel and go through their own grieing process from you. <P>I know that this is one of those things that is easier said than done but I assure you that it can be done. I am probably one of the most emotional men on this planet and managed to do it. Further more, by continually wearing my mask in front of the children, my healing process rapidly advanced. I made time to grieve with friends or by myself but not with my girls. The children have their own cross to bear during the divorce and they should not be forced to bear our cross as well.<P>In the face of this adversity I am asking you to be strong for the children.<P>Take care and I truly feel sorry for you pain.<P>Hugs, Prayers, & Thoughts from Kansas<P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

Thanks Bill,<P>Well, it's not like I vent the dirty laundry in front of the kids....they just pick up on when I'm down. It hurts like hell because I can see them feeling it, and believe me I DO try not to show it. I know they are going through their own issues with this. <P>I know I have to be strong for the children (8, 5 and 3) But did you have an overwhelming anger towards your spouse because they weren't there all the time, and didn't have to try ALL THE TIME? He comes here and is Mr Wonderful, but I get the "I want Daddy to come home" and when I have to reprimand them "I don't love you...I wish Daddy was here." And the worst of it is I can't tell him how they miss him because he would see it as a manipulation. I am so alone with this paritcular issue.<P>Jacky

{{{{{ Jacky }}}}}<P>I actually believe that you need to let the kids see your pain, and also your strength, and resolve. We can't step into a phone booth, and put on red and blue underwear, this is the real world. What they need to see is that you are hurt, but that you are still functioning, and working at a resolution to things. If they think that this does not affect you, then they will resent you.<P>I am having trouble with this, too. My marriage had some problems, but they hardly required what has transpired in my life in the past 4 months. That is beside the point.<P>Things will get better, you must believe that. Try to find some positives about the possible move...there just has to be something good in there...keep looking. I know its hard, believe me...I know. You can do this. -Mike

Thanks Mike,<P>I have read a lot of your advice to lots of others by now, and it's always good. I know I will do what I have to do, and I can see that there are a lot of positives for all of us; they will see their grandparents and cousins, and we will not feel so cut off from our family (I really have only one really good friend here...I never made the effort to make more because we were supposed to go back to Mozambique in January, where I have a lot of friends, and I was keeping myself busy enough. The friend here did point out that, for the kids' peace of mind, it is better that their father can't see them because of distance, rather than won't see them because of choice. The kids seem to have already accepted that we will go back to Australia, but the youngest two, of course, don't realise that it will be without their dad.<P>It's jut that I am in a state of disbelief...it's only been two weeks since he left, and I keep hoping things will change. But I also know him, and if he has really made up his mind, then I have to go. I'm in such a mess.....help!

Please don't think I've lost interest or anything, but I have to go to bed...there is a time lapse here, South Africa versus America. Please reply and I will get back to you tomorrow. I really need it!

Mike, how did you know I wore red and blue underwear????? ....HMMMM......<P>“”Well, it’s not like I vent the dirty laundry…….””” That was the real point that I trying to make. That and do not rely on your children as a crutch. Sure, as Mike said, it is OK for your children to see a certain amount of pain. But continued exposure to our pain could affect their grieving process and could put them in the position where they feel that “they need to take of you”, which I hope that we could all agree that at their ages that would not be in their best interests.<P>And yes, Nina, I do have overwhelming anger towards my x about her parenting style and life style choices. Though the children are at her house a lot, she is never there with them. The children need to vent this and I am there to listen, biting my tongue. I am very careful not to say anything negative to my children or within ear shot of my children about their mother. That is an opinion that I want them to form on their own and believe me they are starting to form that opinion.<P>My two penny’s worth<BR><P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

Thanks Bill,<P>Yes, I do the samewith my kids because I am the product of an unhappy marriage and well I remember my mother venting about my father on us kids. I definitely don't want that to happen. <P>But can anyone out there give me advice on this first "atrangements" meeting I am supposed to have with my H? I am trying to put an emotional wall between us, (bcause of perceived manipulation tactics) but I don't think I can just sit there and discuss these things without breaking down. It is killing me that I will have to sit with him and talk about practicalities when all I want to do is change his mind. What do I say/do/act like???? Oh, help!!!

If you find it out let me know quickly. I have to sit down in two days with the woman that I truly still love and try to come to an agreement on custody. I know that I will be an emotional wreck.<P>Unfortunately, most of my emotion will be anger because I truly believe that what she wants to do with our children is not in anyway in their best interest. Furthermore, I believe that it will have an extremely negative affect on the emotional well-being of my girls (11, 9, 6).<P>So what do we say/do/act?<P>In my case, I'm just going to say what I believe is best for my children. I'm going to do/act as I always do. If I cry like a baby, so be it.<P>Now get some sleep, there is always tomorrow.<P>Hugs, Thoughts, & Prayers<P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

Thanks Bill, I'm going to bed right now...really!!! Though I will probably read myself to sleep into unreality.<P>Take care yourself and I really hope your meeting goes well, for your kids' sake as well as yours.<P>You know, I grew up with my dad's favourite saying "When the going gets tough, the tough get going." I hope it is true for your sake, my sake and for all here.<P>I'll catch up tomorrow. This site is such a support for me.

He just called me to see if I got his email. Spoke in a very flat voice throughout. He said we have to talk about things and I said okay when. He said well, he's really busy, work and the show (he's in an amateur theatre group, so was I until this), how about next week some time. I said okay. He then tried to make conversation, asked about what I'm doing and stuff. So then I asked him how his show was going and he said was I going to come and watch. I said I didn't think he'd want me to and he said that he didn't mind if I was there. So maybe I will go, because the people there are my friends, too, and I am interested in how his play is going because everyone says he is very good (he'd never acted before, that's been MY passion; he only got into the group as part of our Plan A stuff). But then I would feel awkward too, with everyone watching us if we talk there. Seemed to be lots of conflicting signals there today.<P>What do you think is going through his head????<BR>

Nina,<P>I'm probably not the best person to answer this but I'll give you my opinion. Your husband is going through an internal struggle, just as you are. I'm quite sure that he misses the children and the whole family. I also believe that him starting conversation, keeping you on the phone, basically inviting you to the play, is probably him speaking through a moment of guilt. <P>These are all good signs but please do not read too much into them at this point. Many time through our ending, my x-wife's head would come down out of the fog long enough for a kind word or act, but again in my opinion it was her guilt speaking and giving her ego a stroke. <P>Continue your Plan 'A' for you and the possibility of saving your marriage but mainly for YOU. Again, especially through these tough times, please don't place all your hopes or expectations upon a single conversatioin. I did this a few times only to get my bubble bursted.<P>Take care.<P>Hugs, Thoughts, & Prayers<P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

Do you know what the last thing is that goes through a bug's mind when it hits your windshield?<P>I'd say go...your hesitation involves pride...I've got a thing about being humble...so pride is my cross...maybe not yours, but we are all very wounded, and these public 'performances' are something that we avoid...to avoid embarassment. Realize that this is <B>actually</B> your thing, not his. I think he may assume that you will not go...a victory of sorts for him...not in your best interests at all.<P>These 'games' are really childish, and there are always three ways to handle them. My XW goes out to a local bar every night that they are open (3 nights a week)...she hardly ever went there before when I would go. (I used to record the live music, and burn CDs for people. It was a good thing, and we all enjoyed it immensely.) Now, she is basically daring me to go there...I have not. I know that is pride standing in my way. I'm going there on Thursday, and we will see how my XW...the OM (who I know will be writhing in agony), and OM's sisters hold up. I said that there are three ways to react...one=avoidance...two=well, go, but be either pi$$y, or pathetic...take your pick. Three is more ambivalent. Its an acting assignment...a tough one, too. I hate it, its phony...but it is a required response, I'm afraid. Personally, I'd rather move on, but this is a very small town...where my children live, and my so-called friends have not contacted me at all sine the D two months ago. Pathetic on their part. If they approach me, I'm going to tell them (nicely) that they needn't bother wasting any time talking to me...I don't want their friendship in this way.<P>Its a tough call...like I said, I really want to tell then all that they have contributed to ruining my life, they have not supported me at all, and that they are not true friends at all...but, I can't. Hell, I coached their kids in soccer while they stayed home hungover, for heaven's sake. Honestly, it is exasperating. OM's sister 'forgot' to pick her own D up from practive a week before the D, and was resting up so she could go out drinking with my XW, and her brother...the OM. Okay...I guess.<P>Enough of my woes...let him go to Aussie Land if that is his desire...its a big, lonely country...and what will the kids think two months into that? Maybe you could return to Mozambique then, and get some support, and have your own life get better? -Mike

Thanks for the latest replies Mike and Bill.<P>Bill - I know not to hope for the impossible, he has really made up his mind on this, but I guess that it is human nature. I also know WHY he wants to speak to me and it isn't to reconcile.<P>By the way, I have read some of your previous joke threads and you have a great sense of humour. I have actually LOL<BR>and I can say I haven't at any other times in the last two weeks. Thanks for the smiles.<P>Mike - Slight mix-up. He wants ME to go back to Australia, his job will be in Mozambique next year. If nothing happens soon I have to make plans to go to Australia because I am not prepared to go and sit in a third world country and wait for him to visit the kids. It's not practical or fair for him to expect that, and he knows it.<P>I think I will go and watch the show because my good friend whom I have mentioned before is part of that group, and on other occasions she has said she will stick by me and shield me from the nosey ones in the group. Also I WAS co-directing one of the plays but my marriage blew up right in the middle of all of this, and I would like to see how it utrned out.<P>I am sorry your friends have abandoned you, I have lived in a small town and I know that it can be very hard at times like this. Are there bigger towns nearby where you could maybe become involved in something. By the way I know I am biased, but amateur theatre groups (especially musical ones)are a LOT of fun. I am still doing a small thing at another place now...once again my good friend persuaded me to go.<P>I wish you luck for Thursday. Let me know how it goes because you will do the deed before I will!<P>Oh by the way you asked me on another post if my keyboard was detached or something. No, it's just getting old and the keys stick sometimes.

Sorry for the mix up...my bad...just watch out for the funnel web spiders...I saw a show on Sunday that said that they are the deadliest spiders on the planet...yow!<P>My keys keep moving on me! I also have some sort of typing dyslexia, too!<P>I played Cyrano de Bergerac to rave reviews in 10th grade, but I have no desire for theater at this point in life. There is way too much drama in my life already, but thanks for the suggestion. Yes, there is a fairly large metropolitan area 12 miles south of here, but I see little there of interest to me. I like this quiet little town. I did not know any of these people two years ago, and I had been her for five years prior to that, so I am not overly concerned about it. I still have at least 4 decent friends at last count, and some in the 'big city' as well. I hace hobbies that interest me, and once I get my bankruptcy out of the way, and get working again, I will be fine...as I can be, anyway.<P>Yes, I agree that it is unreasonable for him to expect you to tag along as the XW, and sit waiting for him to grace you all with his presence...that's a mighty thick fog he's in...zero visibility!<P>What do <B>you</B> think about returning to Australia? Is that your home land? What about the kids...they seem amenable to it? -Mike

No REALLY!!!! The keyboard is old!!!!Promise!!!!<P>To tell the truth Mike, it scares me to go back to Australia. It is our homeland, and I have family and friends spread over a very large area of Victoria (the state at east and the bottom of the map, not that little islandy thing.) <P>What scares me, apart from the fact that I will be raising the kids alone, dependant on him sending money, finding a place to live, getting a job, logistics of transporting kids when I will be working and changing my entire life (and I know everyone else here feels all of these things) is that once I go, it is admitting defeat (and I'm an Aries - I hate losing) and also it is pretty hard to Plan A over such a distance. <P>The kids don't seem to realise what is going on. When I talk of going to Australia, I believe they think I mean a holiday. I have tried to explain it to the 8 year old, but his concerns are that he won't see his friends in Mozambique, and that we would move back to the town we came from (we were never going back there anyway).<P>I am glad you have some friends who have stuck by you. I myself am scared of the sympathetic looks and hugs I have been getting, concern in close proximity has always made me feel uncomfortable. But I also know that to reach out little is good for the soul. I also have a few people who have been just great.<P>I also agree H is in a huge fog. I said in earlier posts that I thought it was either a nervous breakdown, or a mid-life crisis. Anyone who knows him and us just can't believe what he's doing. But I guess that's the same story as many here. Still it helps to have someone to talk to.<P>By the way, Cyrano, do you have a big nose???