I am feeling so a lone and I am wondering whether I am making a mistake. H has not phoned since he received the summons last Wednesday. That night I got a lot of threatening phone calls from H. I know that he was in pain that night, and I did feel for him. But he was also very nasty and called me terrible names and even said that he’d wanted to break up with me when we were going out. That hurt because he has never said that before. He put the phone down before I could say anything back. He called after that too. When he phoned I knew it was because he may have some connection to me and now he is totally silent. He has a new cell so I don’t have his number. The last time he was in OW’s bed so soon after we separated that I wonder now if he has already slept with someone else or even her again. This is eating me that I meant so little to him that it so easy to get into bed with someone else. I keep telling myself that it does not have much to do with who I am but more to do with him. I would love to have someone hold me and love me, but I know that I am not ready to be with anyone else. I need to get over the hurt that I’m experiencing now. The tragedy of a failed marriage, the loss of the idea that we were going to start a family soon. The knowledge that I was not what he wanted. The knowledge that he will no longer be available for me. That I have a lost a friend. When I am over those things maybe I will be available for someone else and until then I will be on my own. I had such a strong urge to phone him yesterday and this morning and then I have to remind myself why I am doing this. Because he keeps on disappointing me, by drinking and deserting me. By showing little respect for me and my feelings. By being emotionally unavailable. Do I want someone like this in my life? Is this a true friend? Is this what I want out of a friend? I guess its not enough for me.

Pantha,<P>It sounds like you are really hurting now. I don't have much to say that might help except that it WILL get better. From your description of him, he doesn't sound like much of a loss, but you still FEEL very painfully the loss. Thats, unfortunately, the way it works. When my W left, I felt totally hopeless - really for the first and only time in my life. It pretty quickly became better. Its a process of grief - grieving the loss of the relationship. In my case, it looks like we may be getting back together. In your case, since there are no children involved, maybe you are better off without him. Still, I know it hurts, and I'm sorry for your pain.<P>-AD<P>

Yes, Pantha..its quite the cycle, isn't it? Obsess about the OP...obsess about the S, obsess about our failings...back to square one to repeat. The real challenge is to be able to stop doing that.<P>The OW should be the easiest. She does not know him, or you very well, despite the fact that he replaced you with her. Understand that that says more about his lack of character than yours. Its a fairly sensless exercise to do any sort of comparison there. (You will either end up berating yourself without justification, or be back on the revenge circuit. Neither of which is good, or even right.) In other words, she is a non-factor.<P>He is in the fog, to be sure. His actions have no integrity, and to take any of it to heart is yet another useless exercise in self-degradation. Everything else being equal, its not a good idea to see his actions as having anything to do with you at this point. They actually don't. Its all about him right now, and you honestly don't figure into any of his 'calculations'. That might hurt, but its true, nonetheless. Take for example the fact that he has only contacted you to further 'beat you down' <B>after</B> he received the summons. He did not feel it necessary to share this little tidbit about your past before...now what's up with that? Probably something in the summons itself...you wouldn't happen to be trying to get a fair shake, would you? He sees this as you trying to limit him...its more his selfishness, and less about your character. There is probably some guilt in there, as well.<P>On to you...that's the real toughie. All I can say is that there was a time when he wouldn't have said those things, in fact he'd likely have ranted at anyone that would even imply that you had flaws. I don't believe that you have changed that much. Our core behaviors don't move all that much in our lifetimes, without major stress to change. (Like at times such as these.) Pantha, we only get a glimpse at people here, but we do get the opportunity to 'see' each other bare naked emotionally. I'd go so far as to say that in posting here, we reveal more than we do to those around us. What I 'see' in you is someone who is very hurt, but <B>still</B> acting with integrity, not lashing out. I'm sorry that he can't see that, but that's the fog. His anger is actually with himself, but that damned fog is very thick.<P>I feel that WAS are so delusional that they blame BS for all of their ills. Before my D, when I was desperately trying to stop it, I wanted to shift some of the focus on to my XW, try to get her to realize that I wasn't the ultimate bad guy, so I was trying to get an apology out of her for anything from the 18 year marriage...stupid of me, but I think you know that I wasn't thinking right at that point. She actually said, 'I wasn't this way before I met you.' So, even her failings were my fault. Then, she told our Priest that she apologized, looked at me, and said, 'I guess that's another thing that you didn't hear.' What I heard then, and before that was that this is all my fault, not hers, and she didn't take any responsibility for anything wrong in the marriage. Its the same song and dance that her OM and his sisters sing all day long.<P>I'm not sure that they think at all about what they are doing...it's simple survival at the expense of another. They know that they can do it because we truly love them, and we will take their burdens because of who we are. Its somewhat pathetic of them to do that, and despite appearances, they are the weak ones, Pantha...not us. I bear my burdens with humility...not shame. I urge you to do the same. God bless you, Pantha. You are a wonderful person to take all of this up, and he will realize that once the fog lifts. Be strong, and take care. -Mike<BR>

Thanks AD for feeling for me.<BR>Thank you Mike. Thanks for saying all those nice things about me, but I feel like a fake. Like maybe what you are saying about me I don't deserve. I am starting to question myself and who I am. When I was saying all that he had done to me and that he doesn't deserve anything he says 'like everyone says you're forever the angel and can't do anything wrong..' By saying that 'everyone says', he makes me question myself. I know that I have done wrong and I have explicitly asked for his forgiveness. I know I make mistakes, but I try not to repeat them. He just keeps on making the same mistakes. <P>I got a letter from his lawyer and he wants to take anything of value from me. His lawyer is writing on pure speculation of what is outstanding on the bond and not what is actually outstanding. H has manipulated words into lies. But what can you expect from a liar but lies?<P>Why do I hurt so badly? Why can't I not feel this pain? I don't want to hurt like this. I can't talk to my mom or family about how this makes me feel. It feels like they don't understand the pain involved. And through the pain I have to deal with the fight to get what is rightfully mine materially. I feel like giving up. But that is not fair to me - is it?<P>I will see my lawyer tomorrow at 9am. Hopefully he can give me decent advice or I think I might have to change lawyers. It just feels like he gets to do as he pleases and has done since being married and doesn't get to pay the price. I got a statement on his bank account (I still have power of attorney on it, I doubt he will remember to take it off), and he has no money left. He had R24000, R10000 which he put in his credit card and the rest? Gone. Drawing amounts of R500 up to 3 or 4 times a day. Probably gambling and whore houses. <P>How did I misjudge someone so badly? During the first separation he told me has been hiding who he really is and pretending to be someone that he is not. I didn't want to believe it and fought that statement. But unfortunately that is the only truth he has ever spoken to me. I wonder if I will ever gain confidence in my ability to judge people again. Right now I don't have any confidence or self esteem left.<P>Maybe some time I will pick myself up and dust myself off and think of all of this as a bad dream. I hope to find the person that I once was. I feel as I look at myself, who the hell are you. Are you really this bitter? Do you really not have any love to give anymore? Where are you - is what I'm asking myself right now. I want to be the girl I once was.<BR>

First, you have to forgive yourself...that's key.<P>About people faking it, or being who they aren't...usually rubbish...you are who you are 24/7...ruminations to the contrary are either wishful thinking, self-judgement (very harsh), or merely misconceptions. Oddly enough, we often don't give ourselves permission to be who we 'really are'...marriage has a large component of self-denial, and a good dose of self-delusion, as well. Also, 'faking it' it an effective tool for self-change, too. Don't underestimate it...you will try anything to resist change, positive, or otherwise...habits are hard to break...in fact. most people fail at it...I know from whence you speak. Will power is a myth...just do it.<P>You are likely still that 'girl you used to be', but you have been subjugated by the codependent nature of marriage. Now that that is ending, you are 'lost'. Time, and introspection will heal that, but the grieving process will have to be gone through. The other side of this is real, just not visible to you now. Patience and persistence will pay off great dividends in the end.<P>The whole lawyer thing is a bunch of garbage to me. I don't really care for those red tape things...too often used to promote agendas...and campaigns against the other...like your STBX is now doing, with full bore legal support from his lawyer. Pathetic, and likely unethical as it is...I'm going to tell you like I did before...don't go there. Switch lawyers if you must...its obviously your call, but do so with a positive spirit...entering into a lawyer's office with hurt, and revenge on your mind will make the lawyers a lot more money, and hurt you in the process. You don't need that in addition to what you have already.<P>Take care, Pantha...you know that I am praying for you. -Mike<p>[This message has been edited by waiting_for_her (edited July 25, 2001).]

Thank you Mike.<P>Wow what a crappy night last was. He phoned on my cell as the battery died. So I left it, did not check to make sure who it was that called. Then the home phone rang. I asked my brother to get it and if it was H to say that I was not home yet. He called again. Same thing. Third time he tells my brother there is something wrong with his father and that I should phone him. I felt that I should be there for him because in a way I still care and still have feelings for him. So I phoned him and the phone went dead, my brother said that the connection kept breaking and that I should phone again. So I did. He then told me he feels because I am still his wife that he should tell me what happened. I said no, I want to be his friend and help him through whatever it is. He said I don't care because I only took his phone call after threatening my brother (his words). I told him I thought he wanted to talk about divorce and I didn't want to. He didn't want to believe me. He told his father has alzeimer's (spelling?) disease. And he was very upset. His father is only a shell of a man, he suffered kidney failure and after years his mother donated a kidney, this situation also put a lot of strain on our marriage as he was called to their assistance at awkward times. (complicated) I told him that he could come over, but he said he didn't want to. He said he would go get extremely drunk. I wonder if this was to upset me. I repeatedly told him I care as a friend and would like to comfort him as such. And he repeatedly refused. He said this should not cloud my judgement on the divorce settlement. I said it wouldn't. Anyway he kept getting nastier, so I put the phone down. He called an hour later on the home phone and there was music playing and then he put down. Then I unplugged the phone and put my cell on silent. Later as I was on my way to bed I saw my cell flashing its silent ring, so I answered it and he said 'now I know how you felt when you made that statement years ago',then he put the phone down again. I don't know what that was supposed to mean. There were two messages on my office phone this morning. The first one: Have you spoken to your lawyer yet? The second one: I'm sorry about last night I wasn't myself at all. Now I wonder was that supposed to mean that he is sorry he called or sorry for being and [censored]? I am choosing not to call him back. I am so lost...<P>I saw my lawyer and we are working on a settlement. I am just so tired of everything. <P>I thought maybe last night was a sign that we really should be together. But I was rejected again. I feel so bad inside, hurt and bruised.

Pantha,<P>I'm sorry for what you are going through. I know it's hard. It's hard to let go. My W has done similar things - seem to come closer and push away at the same times. Recently things are better, but I'm not sure why.<P>What I had to do was just decide that I can live without her. If she calls and says she's going to come over - and then talks herself out of it on the phone. I just say "OK". When she comes just before dinner and I cook or order something - then she says "I gotta go". I say "OK". I don't act like I have to have her. It helps. I feel better. She treats me better.<P>I know it hurts to get those mixed signals - but maybe the best way to look at it is that your H is confused. Part of him wants to reach out to you and part of him wants to push you away. In my case, I just try to accept my W for who she is - and wait for her to make up her mind.<P>Sometimes I hang up on her when she gets abusive or whatever on the phone. She usually calls back in an hour to say she's sorry and ask if I'm mad at her. I'm not giving you advice, Pantha, just telling you what works (maybe) for me.<P>You DO want him back - in some form under some conditions - right?<P>-AD