My MB friends<P>I have come across a point of contention. My W, who is the BS in our relationship, has been personally emailing male friends through a site like this one. She has many friends on this site both male and female. However the problem is that she has sent gifts to one male friend for a special event he finished (divorce being final - I was told). <P>The problem is that I didn't know about the gift sending and seem to have a problem with her emailing male friends on the site. When I questioned her about it (the way I found out is through an open communication she and I had whereby I was given permission to see her emails) she got mad and said that they were friends (he does live in another state). And as it seems more common, that fight grew and grew and grew.<P>Now a bit of history: I was the WS and as of a couple of months ago, I have tried (and failed sometimes) to dedicate my life to regaining her trust and love. She did have an EN affair with someone from the site in January and went on a weekend getaway (left on Friday-called in sick to work and came back Sunday nite) and didn't tell anyone.<P>So, my friends, please help me with some wise counsel. Am I wrong for being upset about the personal email to male friends and about the gifts or should I just blow it off for the bigger cause.<P>Thanks for reading.

I think you two need to get a trained third party (like one of the Harleys) in the middle of this muddle. A lot of bad things have gone on. You and she need to talk them to death (not yell them to death).

Yep, I'd say you are wrong. <P>Trust is a two way street. You say she has allowed you to read her e-mail (very Trusting) and when you find something that may be JUST WHAT SHE SAID IT WAS/IS. You bust her chops and get into an argument. <P>Sorry partner, ther is only one kind of trust and that the universal kind. One size fits all. Its not your mode of trust or her kind of trust. There is just TRUST. <P>You say "I have tried (and failed sometimes) to dedicate my life to regaining her trust and love."<P>Well, start doing it..<P>Tex. <P><BR>

Well, it does seem to me that gift sending to a member of the opposite sex is a tad inappropriate. Maybe that's just me though.<P>I've had male friends throughout my marriage - I occaisionally meet those friends for lunch, or exchanged phone calls and emails - but never without my H's knowledge and agreement and sometimes involvement (he'd join us for lunch!).<P>If you are both on this site though....do you have a POJA going on? <P>I think the idea of getting the Harley's involved is a good idea.<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

Trying to qualify a response to a wrong is a fruitless exercise...what do you hope to gain by doing that? What you are seeing here is a little glimpse of what you did to her...not pretty is it?<P>I agree with AGMIT...this is simply coming back at you, that's it, plain and simple. Don't deny it, or try to hide from it. Call it karma, or whatever you like...its not good that you are still only seeing your end of things...I'm not sure your fog has completely lifted here.<P>I'm not judging you friend, I'm trying to tell you that you have an opportunity here to try and even things up, and get your marriage back on track. An honest appraisal of what you did, and how that hurt her is in order. I'd write it all down in a letter, and give it to her...then I would leave her alone. Your WAS episode should give you insight into how you <I>should not act</I> (i.e. the way she likely did, and how she feels now (likely how you felt then)...its like you two are passing each other, just barely failing to connect, and that's just sad to me. -Mike

As I don't know anything about you or your wife, it is hard to know how to react. I wouldn't worry too much about the gift but the personal visit seems a bit much if it is the same guy. I am a peoplepleaser, hince the name. I have always bought gifts, sent cards, etc whenever someone I knew had a big event or needed encouragement or just simply I wanted to say thanks for thier help. I don't know if your wife has the same type tendencies. For example, I had knee surgery in 99 twice. I did my rehab with the same phyisical therapist both times. I came to "love" him. I don't mean anything physical, emotional etc. It was just a deep appreciation for all he had done for me. He kept my sprirts up, pushed me to do my best and listened to me when I needed it. I grew very close to him. At the time, I was happily married(I thought) and so was he. There was never any sexual tension or even thoughts of it. He became my friend and God says it's ok to love your neighbor. ( not literally as some WS's in this post have) By neighbor, I think the Bible means all those we come in contact with who help and support us in our daily lives are our neighbors. I may see things through rose-colored glasses but I didn't think twice about giving him a gift at the end of my therapy. It was just a George Brett figurine and a shirt with his fav football team's logo. My mom owns an embroidery plant so I had all of $10 invested in the whole thing. That wasn't the point. The point was I appreciated what he did for me and wanted to show my thanks. <P>Maybe your wife formed an emotional bond with this person who was there for her when you had hurt her. It is funny how you are getting a dose of what it feels like to be thinking about your spouse with someone else. I don't condone it and never think that a BS having an affair would even the score. It just doesn't make sense, knowing how badly it hurts the ones we love. <P>Anyway, I think it is good that your wife knows you are a tad bit jealous because it shows you care. However, you cannot be angry, yell, accuse, or any similar LB. Keep it to yourself. She opened her heart to you by letting you have access to her e-mail. Even though I haven't said anything in these forums that was not true, it would be hard for me to know he was able to read my thoughts. Just be appreciative that the person on the other end was able to provide the support she needed when you were not there for her. As a female it is easy to come to depend on these emotional outlets, I know I am already somewhat dependent on this forum just to express my pain. <P>I wish you and your wife the best with your marriage. Praise God in everything you do.

HowlingAlone,<P>You have a bit of a point about wanting to be told about when your spouse is sending a card, gift or present to a member of the opposite gender. That seems like common courtesy to me. However, it sounds to me as if the way you presented your request to know about these things in the future was probably pretty harsh and demanding. Come on, be honest--was your response assuming her guilt or innocence? Was your response a respectful persuasion, a discussion about a POJA, or a disrespectful judgement and an angry outburst?<P>Another thing I was wondering, do you know what it's like to have someone be a really good friend to you? Someone who likes you because you are a nice, friendly, decent person and doesn't want anything or have any ulterior motives other than being a friend? The reason I ask is that maybe you have a problem with her friendships because you don't understand it yourself. Maybe it seems more threatening than it actually is, because you have only had one kind of relationship with folks of the opposite gender: a sexual one. I'd just give a thought to the idea that it is conceivable that someone was a nice, decent, friendly person to her and she appreciated that kindness--like peoplepleaser said. If that's the case, the sad part is that that means your W got grief for being a thoughtful person. <P>Anyway, my opinion is that letting you see all of her personal email was a very open, trusting act, and your reaction was a very UNtrusting response, and this made her feel like she had to defend herself. I bet she felt vulnerable and then you attacked her. The sad thing is that you say you have tried and failed to regain her trust and love, and yet she WAS trusting you and you hurt her. Get it? When you had your affair, it hurt her, and now when you yell at her in a fight--you continue to do what you did to her back then. Get it? <P>I have to agree with waiting_for_her: it doesn't sound like you are entirely out of the fog yet, because you see things almost exclusively from ONLY your own point of view. Have you done the honest appraisal thing? Not the pity party or the martyrdom, but honestly putting yourself in her shoes and letting yourself see what you did to her from HER point of view? I bet it's too scary to think about, and it hurts to much to let yourself think of that; yet I would also bet that that is one of the big stumbling blocks in the trust between you two. <P>Well, just think about it. I'm pretty sure your W loves you and has no desire to be the WS. Here's a radical thought: maybe she just has a pal, buddy, companion, comrade, ally, supporter, and helper--all synonyms for "friend" (just like she said). <P>CJ<P><P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.