Well after last weekend's semi-nervous breakdown, I am more confused than ever. I think perhaps you guys have all been so helpful that I am overwhelmed with "self-help" theories and I can't tell black from white right now. <P>I hate this feeling of not knowing what to say or what not to say. I have always shared everything with my H, even if he didn't care and now I'm 2nd guessing everything I say.<BR>TOO MUCH IN MY HEAD!!!! YIKES. <P>This AM for example, I tell H in midst of normal conversation that I cleaned out the rest of his dresser drawers and he is welcome to take the stuff with him if he wants but not to take the rubbermaid tub thingee. I didn't say it with any kind of attitude or for any reason other than I needed the drawer space so I cleaned them out. Now I've worried all morning about whether that was a LB or not. I've been told to be nice but do what I want. I wanted his stuff out of my room. However, I also have read that while in Plan A I should concentrate really hard on not love busting. <P>As I have no idea what he is thinking, and really don't care(it's stupid laundry for goodness sakes). So why am I so worried about it? It seems I can't do anything or say anything with confidence anymore. I have lost my sense of identity. It is really hard to work on myself when I don't even know who I am. <P>I was telling him too that I would be taking some of the kids old riding toys, barbie jeep, etc to Goodwill while I had my mom's truck and he looked at me like I was asking him to help. I wasn't even thinking that, I was just running my mouth as usual about what I was doing and I get this reaction like he is afraid to come around for fear I'll put him to work or something. Who really cares? I guess I do or it wouldn't bug me. I'm trying not to appear desparate and clingly but also not to be headstrong and ambivilent. (sp?) I AM GOING NUTS!!! Why do I have to pretend my heart isn't broken??? I guess I should mention that my H was also my best friend and I really have no one other than you guys to "talk" too. <P>I know this entire topic is really lame. I just wanted to let you all know I was really confused and that I was gonna take a few days off to regroup and digest all I've learned. I'll check back in a few days if I find myself. <P>I am so pathetic. L

This is not lame, I think they are normal feelings for what you are going through and I sence a bit of anger also underneath what you are saying and you have a right to be angry with your situation. None of us want to be here but we were given no choice. Take the time and reflect on who you are and what you want in life. <P>

Hi PP,<P>go, go and find yourself. Spend some time thinking about what it is YOU want. And NEVER EVER think you are pathetic. You have been placed in this horrible situation that you must know navigate your way out of. You didn't choose to be here.<P>Take all the time you want - you're in there somewhere you know!!!!!<P>Come back and talk soon<P>hugs to you<P>Jo

Yes, I know what you mean...questioning thoughts and feelings, statements made, and not made...your very existence, and purpose...all too familiar to me, too.<P>First...feelings are not subject to that, IMHO. The representations, and internal programs that lead to the feelings, perhaps...but that is unimportant <B>while</B> you are feeling that way. If I might be so bold as to make an assumption...before you said those things, you internally concluded the negative outcome, and he just responded 'as you knew he would', hence your feeling bad about it...or, he really didn't take it that way, and you are simply assuming he did.<P>Now, you know that every question you ask seems 'loaded' to him, he assumes that you are going to make this as hard on him as (he deserves!) you can. He is looking for an LB in everything, it justifies his actions! You can't do much there, just try not to take it all to heart...which is damned near impossible, but you've got to try, if for no other reason than to keep a shred of sanity throughout this transition...speaking of which...this is a transition...you are moving through this state, its not like you are going to take up permanent residence here.<P>Lynn, I have the same wish that you said to me yeterday...I wish I could make things better for you, but I can't...that is up to you. This is like some sadistic buffet where someone else keeps piling your plate full of stuff that you don't like...Too much brussel sprouts, not enough dessert. Remember what you told me...this is for a reason, and you will come out on the other side a very blessed, strong, capable woman...who will make someone extremely lucky and blessed some day...whether it is him, or not...remains to be seen...not under your control...but you know that God and I are rooting for you! Here is a hug, and a big Tomahawk chop! -Mike

Mike,<P>I see why you can make such lovely shutters. You must be a great carpenter because continually "hit the nail on the head" where I am concerned. I think you were exactly right that I was pre-conceiving what my H's response would be. Thanks as always for the words of wisdom. By the way, I've read your models post about 3 times and my feeble brain is still digesting. Food for thought, definately.<P>Hello all,<BR>Yes, I'm back to posting. (Who won the pool on how long I could stay quiet???) My 2 days off really haven't been very productive. It has rained and rained and rained and that always dampens my spirits a bit. Also, I am still riding that "rollercoaster" that is so familiar to all. It has, however, gone around the bend and started climbing up hill again. <P>Last night I came to the realization that I was losing all the respect I had for my husband. For some reason, his moving out didn't do this because I used his depression, job change situation,etc as an excuse for his behavior. I wanted what was best for him. As someone else said here, what about me? Now simple things such as knowing he has called his mom last night but did not call to speak to the kids are really making me doubt that I could ever truly trust or care about his man so deeply again. (I have callerid and she doesn't so he can call her but not us ). <P>Heck, I have been depressed, I have suffered major job shake ups, I have felt abandoned and negleted by my friends, I have "felt bad", I have done all these things but I have NEVER abandoned my children. <P>I cannot think of anything that could be so bad that I could turn my back on them. I don't understand how a man who couldn't stand to take vacations without the kids could just ignore the fact he has them now. He has taken them to school everyday this week(first time he has seen them 4 days in a row since he left) but his "15 minutes" in the mornings is not being involved in their lives. I still lay out their clothes, get them dressed, get their breakfast, pack their lunch, make sure they have field trip money, the right shirt, suntan lotion, etc, etc, etc. He has collectively spent less than 2 hours alone with them in 6 weeks. It makes me sick. Not for me but for them. I have made excuses for him long enough. He is a cold-hearted son-of-my-dog and I cannot and should not have to pretend that he is not. Sure, this isn't the man I married but where is he??? Will he ever come back? Do I really want him back? Couldn't I trade him in for an upgraded model? Perhaps one with a better ability to communicate his emotions. He looks at me like he has a deep desire to spill his guts but he doesn't have the balls to do it. <P>Unless he makes significant changes in his life, which I KNOW I have no control over, I can't see my marriage working. Well enough about him, I can't do anything about that anyway.<P>I have decided that if the PI comes back with solid evidence for me, I will file some legal paperwork to protect myself financially. If he is out on his own, trying to find himself, do some soul searching, etc, I can be pretty tolerant. But I draw the line at thoughts of our kids having to do without or my inability to pay a bill he helped make, just so he can spend his paycheck on some other women or her kids. NO WAY! <P>I really hope my H and his new friend don't have access to this forum. He never did much on computer at home. Hell, he never did much at home, what am I talking about? <P>I had to drive to Athens GA (for Clemson gals like me, that's enemy territory) and back today and I've had no caffeine all day. Yikes! I have a screaming headache and I think I'll turn in early. May get up and join ya'll later on. <P>Just checking in for now. W-F-H How was the movie? L<BR>

Well, now I guess that I have to say...go Tigers!<P>Never saw the movie...after the truck broke down, and I couldn't get the check cashed, I decided to crawl back home, and play DK64 with Sam. I gave Teri the check...of course, she had no problem getting it cashed! We will likely go on Saturday...if a giant hole doesn't open up, and swallow me first, that is.<P>The Models thing is necessarily written in my over the top technical style....you see, this is all cognitive stuff, as opposed to emotional...plus, its written by a male...a techie, at that...and so it suffers from not being written in a style that you can relate to without some serious effort...which is actually a plus, I <B>feel</B>.<P>More to come later...I've gotta go...might 'catch' the OM at the bar...I want to be a little more 'obvious' in ignoring him...face-to-face as it were! -Mike<p>[This message has been edited by waiting_for_her (edited July 26, 2001).]

Hey, someone who knows the ACC... I had temp forgotten you were a VA native. Yeah, sometimes it's been hard to find things to be proud of in ol' SC with all the video poker wars, confederate flag riots, and lottery hoopla, BUT I am pretty proud of my Tigers. <P>Sorry you didn't catch the movie but hopefully you have 100+ golden bananas by now. OOOHHH, BANANA!<P>I wanted to say thanks for the tip on the IRS check. I also had my H to sign mine(ours, heck, MINE) and tried to deposit it into my new account. Last week I was going to close out our old checking account and party hard on the $7.18 that was the balance but I waited because of the problem you had with it not being a joint account. I encountered the exact same problem and since I didn't close out the joint account, I deposited check there with no problem and now I just have to wait til it clears then I can transfer into my own account. I would have been really pissed had you not posted the potential problem so thanks, your black cloud held a silver lining for me.<P>BTW, I told my H I would offer to split the check with him but I was applying his $300 towards the $600 to date he owes me for medical coverage on the kids. (when he changed jobs, I had to pick up their med cov). It might have been a LB but I really didn't care, we are talking cold hard cash now, not emotions or feelings. He didn't have any objection but I was pleased to get a chance to remind him he isn't being financially supportive of the kids. Of course I was all sweet and dripping sugar when I said it but I felt I should let him know I was using the $ for the kids. Supposely he is working 7 days a week now so he and "her" are making out pretty well anyhow, I suppose. <P>Sorry about all this boring stuff. I just spent all day in the car and haven't had a conversation with a grown up today. I know this forum should be used for more therapeutic topics but I hope everyone will understand that just the release of "talking" here makes a world of difference to me. <P>I am doing somewhat better but the weekend is rolling around again and "if" H doesn't have to work, he told kids "we" would all go camping/fishing. I'm not sure I'm in the "WE" but I don't go, there will be no one to set up the tent Maybe I should say no, I can't go but deep down I really want to. Which Lynn do I listen to? The one that says, don't go, you will only feel worse if you do.. OR the one that says, heck a little fooling around in the woods never hurt anybody? Don't know yet. I feel much like the other poster here that doesn't know how to act around her ex. I'm really scared.<P>L<P><BR>

I am glad that you were able to get some good out of that day...because I got little from it, other than practice being patient, and perhaps some insight into the process that I go through to get into a totally helpless state. That will come in handy later, once I can break it down, and find out where to apply the changes.<P>Sam accidentally deleted his saved game, and had to start pretty much all over. He was very calm about the whole thing, because I do know how <I>he</I> goes <I>there</I>. In fact, we were able to break several of his automatic responses down, and make substatial changes. He made good progress, and I found the DK guide for $10. Not the wisest investment I ever made, but like I said, we are using the game as a metaphor for general problem-solving with excellent results. He applied it to a problem that he had playing with some older kids tonight, and I was pretty impressed with his handling of it. I actually got a little impatient with him at one point. I told him that he was getting distracted, and not following his plan. He said, 'Yes, Dad, but I am following most of it.' I had to stop right there, and acknowledge that. He came over to me, and hugged me at that point...the student becomes the teacher!<P>I'd listen to the Lynn that wants to go...provided that the 'we' does include you. Lots of opportunity to Plan A there, and it is a good respite, if you can limit your expectations in that respect. God is really easy to see in nature, and unless you LB bigtime, it will likely result in some Love Bank deposits with little effort on your part.<P>The practical things...if they cause LBs would pretty much be on him. Its not an LB unless you are unreasonable, selfish, or any of the other LB buzzwords. There are practical considerations in this. Teri actually was somewhat surprised when I offered to split it...I owe her money for child support, but that is not what I meant by giving her the $300. Honestly, it was a bad call financially, as I need to pay the electric company $235 by the end of business on Monday...which I will have to borrow from my 15 year old...talk about humbling!<P>I hope that you have a wonderful weekend no matter what you end up doing...I'm still putting things together for the Chapter 7...it is gruelling, and humbling. I am also going to ask a former employer for my job back, and I really don't enjoy the work, or working for him, either...but he pays 14.50/hour, which pays my budget with some room to save, too. So, I am going to have to rewrite that little internal program, as well.<P>Tomorrow night, I am supposed to go to a party that XW/OM are going to. This is the suggestion of a female friend who is nearly a WAS herself. Her H actually said that we should imply that we are there on a date...this is supposed to do <I>something</I> to Teri and OM...what exactly, I do not know...the whole thing seems like juggling nitroglycerine to me...I know that she is attracted to me, and they are both good friends...I want to bow out of it sooo badly, but they were absolutely insistent that we do this. Yuck! This stuff is damned ugly, and I don't see this helping anything, just creating another bigtime set of problems.<P>Anyway....take care, I am really praying hard tonight, for a lot of things in my life, and yours, too. -Mike

W-F-H<P>I don't have but a minute this AM but I just had to check to see if you had responded. No, I'm not a dependent psychopath but for some reason you were on my mind all day yesterday. I suppose God was just telling me you needed a few extra prayers yesterday which I gladly provided. I see from your response and your NLP post that you have been doing some serious reading. I am very interested in examining these theories but my Attention Deficiet Disorder usully takes over and I can't concentrate long enough to really absorb and interpret. <P>As for this party, I hope you have a good time because you deserve to have some fun. However, remember what this site's main advice theme is and "don't do it to try to get a reaction out of her" While it might bother her to think you were there with someone, I agree that the current "pretending" plan has disaster all over it. Now if you had a female friend who wasn't married, that might be beneficial all around. Just have fun at the party and be yourself. Previous posts lead me to beleive your ex may be seeing you are not such a bad guy, afterall. <P>I also have a party to go to tonight that I tried to get out of. A BBQ will a whole bunch of happily married couples just doesn't seem like my scene these days. <P>Can't wait to see how it goes. BE TRUE TO GOD AND YOURSELF AND HAVE FUN!!!!<P>L

L -<P>I too am in SC and am a Clemson girl (in spite of my user name). Where are you in SC? My H is lurking so I cannot say much but i'd love to hear from you - somehow it just makes me feel better to know there are others out there going through the same things -<P>You will be in my prayers . . .

Hey GatorGirl, GO TIGERS!!! Class of 88 myself. I also don't want to say too much as I don't know if H or OW may be lurking around either. I'm in upstate SC if that helps any. I'm extremely exhausted tonight. Too much yard work again this weekend but it really is starting to look good. <P>I didn't hear from H all weekend which is unusual. I think he has been here every Sat AM for the past 2 months and I haven't heard a word from him since Thur AM. I guess I might be dealing with our separation a bit better these days because I haven't had a panic attack about something being wrong with him. Previously if I didn't see or hear from him for 2 days, I assumed something was wrong, he was hurt, sick, etc.... Now I'm starting to see he just doesn't care. That hurts so much. I know he loves his kids and even if he doesn't love me anymore, I would have bet my life that he would not have turned his back on the kids. I took a trip Thur. and for all he knows, I may never have made it back home. It really blows my mind that someone I thought I knew so well could change so much in such as short period of time. I have made every excuse in the book for him. Depression, job changes, winter blues, etc and it boils down to the fact that he just doesn't care.<P>I can't believe it but it is the reality I'm faced with. I do have to say I haven't cried as much this weekend, then again, I've sweated so much working in the yard, I doubt the ol' body had enough fluid to generate tears....... <P>Went to a party, actually a BBQ with sunday school class last night and spent almost the entire time down in their barn, talking to the horses, cats and their 14 year old son. It was just too hard to sit around in the house with 10 happily married couples. Did have a brief conversation with one lady who has been through some rough times but marriage counseling was successful. I just wish my H would consider it. Like so many others here in this forum, I read his actions(and lack of actions) load and clear. However when I look in his eyes, I see someone who is clearly in pain and very confused. I am starting to hate myself for loving him so much. I know I deserve better than what I'm getting currently from him but dang it, this is my life, not just some little detail. I know I'm not always the easiest person to live with because I'm hyper, talk way too much and too loud, and tend to not know when to keep the mouth shut. BUT I'm also a very giving person who loves to make others happy. I believe in doing what I call "random acts of kindness". I attend church somewhat faithfully and even though I don't give as much money as I would like to, I try to give of my time. I try to see the good in people and even though I often get taken advantage of for being the "go-to" gal, I truly enjoy helping people. I hate asking for help and I despise this current feeling of helplessness I'm suffering from.<P>I just can't understand what went wrong. I honestly never believed my H was unhappy with me. I just don't get it. I guess I'm not suppose to right now. I struggle everyday with turning my marriage over to God and then trying to help Him along a little. I often say Let Go and Let God but I have to agree with the other poster here that somedays it makes me want to scream because I don't know how to let go.<P>Just like dieting, I know exactly what I need to do and not do, I have enough knowledge to know the difference between good and bad choices, but for the life of me, I continually chose what is satisfying but completely unhealthy for me. I see my relationship with my H the same way. I know I shouldn't allow myself to get my hopes up. I should establish firm yet fair boundaries and I should have enough strength to let him go. I just continue to reach for the "cheesecake" instead of the "jello". <P>Just wanted to respond to your post and "talk" a bit. I was also hoping to see how W-F-H did at his party but I suppose it will wait till tomorrow. <P>Thanks for the prayers. I really believe in God's power and the gift of prayer is something I can't say thanks enough for. Maybe someday soon, you can fill me in on your story so I can pray for you more specifically. <P>Have a great night. L<BR>

W-F-H,<P>When you get back, please bring me some cheesecake. I'm getting really sick of all the brussel sprouts... <P>Hope things are as good as possible with you. I know you might not get this for a while but just wanted to let you know I was thinking about you. My ISP at work has gone bellyup and I may lose connectivity at work at anytime. It would have been nice if they had told someone. Talk about full fledge panic attack. I'm responsible for our DSL connection, all the Exchange services and various internet programs that will cripple our business if the service is yanked. They changed my DNS servers without telling me but I was able to redirect to a workable one. I hope it lasts long enough for Sprint to get the new T-1 installed. I'll be a nervous wreck until all this is put to bed. <P>Hey, did you get the ol' job back? Sorry to hear the guy is not so great but I hope you'll enjoy putting all your talents and brains to use, and get paid for it. Who wants to debug SQL for free??? I know you are in a really bad financial situation but I can't help but think you will find a way to turn it all around for the best. I will pray that this happens quickly for you. I did want to ask you if $75 an hour was reasonable for web site development? I think I remember you said you did some of this type work.<P>Just wanted to say hi for whenever you got back to this forum. I've missed "talking" to you. You won't beleive how much work I've got done in the yard in the past 8 days! It's amazing. <P>Keep in touch when you can but know I am still praying for you each day. Lynn <BR>