Well, some of you know my story... My H wants a divorce... yet he wants a relationship with his kids virtually unchanged from an intact family... He asks if I'd be willing to live in one house - a duplex... because I'm still hoping for a relationship with him, and because I know this is best for the kids (I think anyway), I agree.<P>So, here we are in the Chicagoland area... I have very few friends...<P>We closed on the house last Friday and moved in over the weekend. Yesterday after the moving truck left and we were breaking down the big boxes - he said, "We need to think about how we're going to divide up the proceeds on this house for the future - and how we'll invest it." <P>WHAM! I'm hit again with the reality that all that he has wanted is what he gets. I just about lost it. Can't we just get moved in before we talk about how to split up the proceeds on the sale of this house after our divorce? I don't even know how I'm going to make my portion of the mortgage and bills due on the house. I moved in on faith... maybe hope. <P>I am really feeling like a martry here and it's just not satisfying at all! I don't want to feel this way. I want to REALLY take the high road and believe that I chose this because it's best for the kids...<P>Reality... I chose this because it's best for me. I was afraid of any other course of action. I knew that it would not be good for the kids and I am consistently hoping that my H will not go through with the divorce? I plan A - but like others have stated, it's Plan A with expectations. They KILL me. When will I get past this selfishness?!<P>My H is being kind, well, he is happy that he's upstairs and has gotten things so far the way he wants. How am I to be? Steve said, "Keep Plan Aing and if he continues with divorce proceedings you may have to design a modified Plan B." What? How? We're in the same house?<P>Anyway, maybe I'm just venting here... I need to get into counseling again as I'm going to wear on my friends if I don't have someone to talk to about this... WHAT CAN I DO TO HAVE THE RIGHT ATTITUDE? God, where are you? Why do I have these expectations that if I perform right or do the right things, things will turn out the way I hope? Is this selfishness? YES!!! What is going on here?!<P>I do not want to be a MARTYR! What steps can I take to make a life for myself now that I'm in this duplex (old home made into a duplex - upstairs downstairs) with my stbx-H!?! Thanks for your thoughts...<P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17

these are only suggestions:<P>1) take good physical care of yourself, talk to steve about what this should be for you.<P>2) take good emotional care of yourself, talk to steve about what this should be for you.<P>3) Start going out on group dates without him, ie: show your H that you are not dependent upon him for fun. . . his ego tells me that he gets everything he wants because you are doing a good job being supportive, so now he needs to check his ego because you are no longer just in waiting for him, talk to steve about what this should be for you.<P>4) make sure you have talked to a lawyer about your rights as far as the settlement. . . you can force him to sell the house, I believe. . . make sure you know everything, because he is just manipulating you into agreeing to stuff that lawyers should be involved in. . . that you don't have to ask steve about, but go ahead and do it anyway!!!<P>ok, how does that sound? keep working with steve on your plan a and boundaries. . . . oh, and no one that i know of that moves across countries and oceans knows anyone in the new town, (unless they worked with them) so you go out and meet them. <P>how does that sound?<P>WIFTTy

Nicole...now, you know that I rail just like that...there are a number of us here that do this...and I am feverishly studying, and I am getting some answers...be patient. (I'm also doing a Chapter 7 bankruptcy, watching Sam....you know how those kids can take up all of your time...)...anyway, the answers are in NLP...how to change those tired internal programs, how to rebuild rapport, in other words, how to win at life....you already have a goal...guess what...step one is complete! Now, that Models page is actually on my website, just not 'visible' with a link...I'm going to write more, but the ABCDE thing is a good start in 'thwarting' this automatic response...I spent an hour at the bookstore 'stealing' from the psychology section! Plus, I have two books on NLP, and a bunch more on similar topics...self-hypnosis, among other things. I have developed a system that will allow you to make your own tools to do this, unfortunately, it is in the pile of incomplete projects...(I'm ADD, in case you haven't already noticed that!)<P>I have come to the conclusion that this is the straight path to God...in meditation. If you will bear with me, I will get busy on it...its part of my healing process, too.<P>I am convinced that this is the answer to my prayers...actual step-by-step methods instead of a lot of meaningless symbolism. Carl Jung put me into the fact that when symbols are overused, they become more important than the thing that they symbolize...my recent past has opened my eyes to how very true, and dangerous that is.<P>BTW, Teri is moving...she actually seems to be 'seeing things' more clearly...I have missed your 'sharpening' a great deal in the recent past...but I knew that you were busy! (No, she isn't physically moving!)<P>I have to go out tonight....I will be back later, and post in my thread...but for now, realize that it is your perception that you are a martyr, or doormat...everyone else's opinion notwithstanding, if you are supporting your goal, then a doormat you are not...even if H thinks so. You are a doormat when you do selfless acts that do not support your goal.<P>God bless you Nicole...your life is in a place where wonderful positive changes are about to take place...be patient...I'm trying to be patient, too! -Mike

Dear <B>Tom</B>, thanks for these words. But you must be made of money because talking to Steve sure gobbles up a bunch! I'd rather talk to you all.. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>1) take good physical care of yourself, talk to steve about what this should be for you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think I can manage this one... I'm living right on one of Illinois' many "prairie paths" so it's just a matter of getting enough gumption to get my bum out of bed in the morning for a jog instead of just a coffee! <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>2) take good emotional care of yourself, talk to steve about what this should be for you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah, this is where I need more help. That's why I KNOW this martrydom posture will NOT work and will only frustrate me more. I can give and give and give... but I'd better do it without expectations. I have YET to decide what personal boundaries I have for myself... like how do I know when I or someone crosses the line? I just KNOW it when it happens and then usually it's too late and I'm angry! Why can't I figure this one out!? This is the key to my being a martyr... it's because I don't know how far is enough personally.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>3) Start going out on group dates without him, ie: show your H that you are not dependent upon him for fun. . . his ego tells me that he gets everything he wants because you are doing a good job being supportive, so now he needs to check his ego because you are no longer just in waiting for him, talk to steve about what this should be for you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I can't even imagine doing this at this point. Though I'm going to likely go to a Matchbox 20 concert with a girlfriend of mine! That should be fun - four women on the town in Chicago!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>4) make sure you have talked to a lawyer about your rights as far as the settlement <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I suppose this would be something to discuss legally. Though I don't want to irritate the situation and he's just trying to think out loud on some of this... Tom, thanks... your words are encouraging! <P><B>Mike</B>, I need to check into this neuro-learning stuff... the closest I've gotten to it is Emotional Intelligience by Goleman (?). I found it fascinating... I need to re-wire or do something up their because old tapes and old patterns are hard to fix! Will do more studying on this page of yours... Great news about Teri! I hope she finds the time to soul search... really ask some questions about life.<P>I'm concerned about your kids. Especially Aaron... now's the time to be concerned about drugs and stuff... who are the middle two again and what's up with them lately?! Hang in there for them won't you?!<P>Thanks for your words...<BR>Cheers!<BR>Nicole<P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OvrCs:<BR><B>God, where are you? Why do I have these expectations that if I perform right or do the right things, things will turn out the way I hope?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Your expectations are not quite in line with Romans 8:28. If you do the "right things" (meaning living righteously, not following some magical wish-fulfillment formula), things will work out for <I>your good</I> - just not necessarily in the way that you <I>hope</I>!<BR>

Well Nicole darlin, aren't you lucky? I just got off of the phone with my Al-Anon sponsor and guess what our topic of discussion was?<P>You guessed it!! Martyrdom!!! <P>So I'll just pass along the strict talking to that I just received! <P>You <B>chose</B> this situation. Nobody made ya do it. Your struggle is similar to mine, and truly what it boils down to is acceptance of the reality and dropping expectations of the outcome.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I moved in on faith... maybe hope.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Do you mind if I rewrite this statement? What you really did was: moved in on <I>denial and expectations</I>.<P>Now, don't get me wrong here...I am NOT saying...Nicole you screwed up and made a bad decision. THAT is only something you can judge. What I am saying is that the decision that you did make was MOTIVATED and based on denial and unrealistic expectations. <P>Denial: Refusal to accept the what your H was telling you. He was pretty upfront and honest, and you decided that he didn't really mean it...<P>He TOLD you that he was planning to divorce you. He TOLD you his plans about selling and moving and divorcing and you decided to ignore those parts that really hurt or the parts that didn't fit in with your plans for your life.<P>You EXPECTED that if you worked on yourself for a bit, bowed to his selfish demands by uprooting yourself and your children that he would respond by changing his plans.<P>But your expectation was unrealistic and based on denial. So when it didn't turn out the way you expected....here you are sitting on the pity pot, crying about how awful it is!<P>(Aren't you glad you don't have my sponsor? She's pretty darn rough on me! All this stuff I am saying to you applies to me also 100%!!)<P>Nicole, he is who he is, not who you want him to be. As long as you remain in denial and make decisions based on expectations, not only are you going to be unhappy and frustrated, but you are also still trying to control the situation. Manipulations always end up in disatisfaction for the manipulator. Besides, when we are busy trying to control - it makes it easy to deflect responsiblity for our own choices.<P>YOU, Nicole, chose to move far from family and friends into a duplex with a man who told you upfront that he plans to divorce you. <P>From a trying to save your marriage and Plan A perspective, you may have done a wise thing. But as long as your motives are based on denial and expectations, you are going to contine to be unhappy.<P>You did this. Now suck it up (yes, my sponsor said this to me too!).<P>((((((((((hugs)))))))))) and yes, I'm sucking it up too!! <P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

BR,<P>great sponsor. . . . . I wish i could meet her. . . <P>Nicole,<P>What you are doing with Plan A and moving, etc, is putting your children first, and you second, that is not bad, but you have to remember, that is why you moved there, not for you, for the kids. . . <P>it willl be for you in the future if you get divorced because you didn't give up easily, and tried all that you knew to save what you had. . . so martyr for now, yes, for a greater interest, your kids. . . and that was why you need to keep talking to Steve. . . and to a lawyer, to be sure you protect yourself down a very difficult slope, but you chose to take it, which has guts, and for that you will be rewarded later, martyrs want the reward now, up front, and with sympathy. . . is that your ultimate goal??<P>what's the goal of your plan? remember, i said talk to steve to get a plan? you start with the goal, what is it?<P>tom

Thanks all of you... <B>BR</B> I was hoping you'd drop by and post. So glad you did... I AM living in denial and living with expectations... HOW do I change that? How does one wake up to the reality and live accordingly without getting ticked off at the way life plays out?!<P><B>WIFTTy</B>, my goal... you've asked me this a thousand times, no? Well, slight exaggeration... My goal can be found in this verse... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." <I>Rom 12:18</I><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> So I ask myself how?... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable - if anything is excellent or praiseworthy - think about such things. Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in my - <B>PUT IT INTO PRACTICE</B>. AND the God of peace will be with you.<I>Phil 4:9</I><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This all seems good and right, but how do I do this in a way that doesn't result in feeling like a martyr? I guess as <B>BR</B> states, choose things with my eyes wide open and not in hope/denial. He has been very up front. So, what's the deal with Plan A? I know, work on myself... but isn't Plan A given with the hope that ONE PERSON can lead the other person back from Withdrawal to Conflict to Intimacy? <P>Anyway, I moved here because the kids need access to their Dad. I also moved here because if I stayed anywhere else, it would be more difficult on me all the way around - financially, emotionally and spiritually... I'd be on my own. So what am I getting at... I guess what everyone here on these boards is getting at... THIS SUCKS! But how does one find joy, peace and contentment in the midst of this?! Whine whine whine... where's the Spirit of the Lord in me when I go on and on and on like this?!<P>This isn't taking the "high" road... this is complaining! There is no room for this! So, as you state <B>BR</B> I am just going to have to suck it up... I'd like to suck it up without feeling all this... whatever it is! Is it wrong to be upset about life not working the way you want it to? How does one rise above and live contently given any circumstances? I guess just choose wisely this day my reactions and actions so that the effects will not hurt others.... To love.<BR><P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>HOW do I change that? How does one wake up to the reality and live accordingly without getting ticked off at the way life plays out?!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>How?<P>By taking responsiblity for your own actions, choices and decisions. <P>By letting go of others, and giving up expectations of outcomes.<P>By drawing a circle around your feet, and recognizing that the ONLY things that you can control are inside that circle. Gee, what's in the circle? YOU. Nobody and nothing else, not even your kids.<P>You see, I make the mistake daily of "letting go and letting God" in an unhealthy fashion. I let go of a situation, and then turn it over to God with a detailed instruction manual on how it is all supposed to work out.<P>When God has other ideas...I'm ticked off and resentful.<P>I used to be ticked off at "how life played out" but then got more honest with myself. I was ticked off at God for not arranging my life as I would have it.<P>My self-will and my expectations get me into trouble EVERY single time.<P>Plan A is about HOPE, but you haven't been hoping, you have been expecting. Put the focus on YOU, let go of the expectations, accept reality, and then put it in God's hands with the trust and HOPE that it will turn out for the best. Be willing to listen to God's answers - His answer for you may not be the one you planned.<P>Again, as I said earlier, these are all things that TOTALLY apply to me and that I struggle with daily. I don't trust God, and I don't trust myself or my H. So there ya go - I'm in quite pickle! <BR><P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." Rom 12:18<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Maybe it would help if you make sure that YOU are on the top of the list of "everyone".<P>Love others as you love yourself. There's nothing in that commandment that says love others BEFORE or after or instead of.<P>That's why the conventional wisdom says that you can not love others if you don't love yourself. Taking care of your needs, treating yourself with love, dignity, care and respect, has to come in there also.<P>Abusing yourself for "peace" solves nothing. Peace starts by being at peace with the face in the mirror every morning!<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

<B>BR</B> what you mean by *abuse* when you state this? I feel like I'm doing this partially for selfish reasons - like what else would I do and this seems to be the best option all the way around for everyone... or am I just really whacked here? <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Abusing yourself for "peace" solves nothing. Peace starts by being at peace with the face in the mirror every morning!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I like your circle analogy... I also feel like I'm aimlessly wandering looking for someone else's expectations to fill so that I can receive accolades for this. <P>How should I approach or how should my posture be towards my H...? How can I "detach with love" as you wrote about a few months ago?<P>I've GOT to get a life...<P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17

Ok, I'm running out the door and I don't know when I'll be back, but I want to respond real quick:<P>Several quick thoughts - selfishness is NOT self-love.<P>Yep, your motives are selfish, mostly out of fear...am I right? Treating yourself with self-love, making decisions based on self respect is not the same as selfish.<P>When we do selfish things, we hurt ourselves. Now do you see where I am going with "abuse"?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I also feel like I'm aimlessly wandering looking for someone else's expectations to fill so that I can receive accolades for this. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So you get your feelings of self-worth by what others think of you.....<P>See, peace and love and all that good stuff has to start inside of YOU.<P>People who people please like that (and I am one of them!) spend a great deal of time focused on others needs and wants and problems rather than examine their own lives, faults, issues and needs.<P>You will continue to feel empty inside while trying to find your solutions in selfishness and people pleasing (which is really only a form of manipulation and control).<P>Now, I have lots more to say but I have 2 choices here:<P>I can stay here typing my heart out because "Nicole needs me and I feel great that she thinks I'm wise" and ignore the other choice, which is that I have to take care of myself by getting to the bank before it closes - otherwise I'll have too many things to do in the morning and be stressed out and grumpy!!!<P>See - I can people please and fill expectations, or I can take care of what I gotta do!! <P>(((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

Okay, I hate this and love this... it's like digging out the festering infection in a wound... you say <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Yep, your motives are selfish, mostly out of fear...am I right? Treating yourself with self-love, making decisions based on self respect is not the same as selfish. When we do selfish things, we hurt ourselves. Now do you see where I am going with "abuse"?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yes, I do see... but how does one get out of these patterns? I am working on accepting the "me" that God created so long ago in the womb of my mother... I am living in fear... fear of living alone, fear of not being able to support my kids financially and emotionally if on my own, fear of not being the mother I can be even if I'm not pressured to work... fear fear fear. It's all back to "perfect love casts out all fear." I just need some supernatural or super-spiritual healing here!<P>I too have a choice... to continue this thread of focusing on myself or to just get on with life. Where is the boundary of living in quasi-community to bear one another's burdens and focusing too much on myself here, even on these boards?<P>Okay, now my son wants to go to NickJr.com to play Blues Clues so that's my choice... but notice AFTER my choice to post here. Well, in fairness, he was playing and then asked to switch to looneytoons.com so I thought I'd check for a response... aargh! What is self-lessness anyway?! How can it truly be manifested - are any of my own needs and interests okay to have? And to what extent... only when they don't impede someone else?<P>God help me... thank you all for helping me explore this area that I'd TRULY rather keep hidden!...<P>Gotta run!<BR><P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17

Magical wish-fulfilling formula? What are you talking about? GNP, faith alone is not the answer...the Bible tells you that...living 'righteously' is a highly subjective thing, plus is does absolutely nothing by itself, save make one feel bad about being good, unless of course that person's ego can be serviced by being alone, and righteous. I said it in the Models thread, and several other places...these are not answers, they are platitudes, and <I>they</I> represent a 'magical wish-fulfillment' process...eat right, exercise, take anti-depressants, plan A...that has zero tangible content. What is being asked is how specifically can I rid myself of the sense of being/need to be subjugated by my present set of circumstances?...how can I change my relationship with my spouse so that we both want to remain married?...how can I get the most from my life, my marriage, and my family? These are very real questions, and restated, they <B>are</B> goals. Each one can be broken down into subgoals of a more concrete nature, and into a set of desired behaviors...which can be achieved through self-reflection, changing values and beliefs and perceptions, and interactions...which there are real ways of doing in any given situation. Modeling affords one the opportunity to do this...wishing it were so is not at all what I meant, nor Bandler and Grinder, Virginia Satir, Frits Perls, Milton Erickson, Michael Hall, or any of the literally thousands of therapists, psychologists, and other professionals who have either contributed to, or practiced NLP meant when they advocated it use. It is easily misunderstood, but your outright dismissal of it betrays much more about you than it does NLP, and I see no content in that post...except wishing...sorry, but I, for one am looking for answers, not placebos.<P>You are okay with where you are. That is good <I>for you.</I> Please don't assume that by simply saying, "I'm okay", that makes others feel the same way. There are those that want to change themselves...they are not happy with themselves, or their situation...and want to do something about it. That is what this is all about, and it has been shown to work. Don't like it? Don't want to believe its valid? That is fine...but do everyone a favor, and keep it to yourself, unless of course you have some real world methods to achieve the above stated goals...by all means I am open to anything.....? -Mike

...further ramblings...the circle is indeed a powerful <I>analogy</I>...i.e. it represents, or symbolizes what you are supposed to do, but I for one would feel pretty ridiculous, and likely those around me would think me insane, if I actually did that...without a set of actual instructions to do that...you are in effect drawing a line, and saying do not cross this.<P>Nicole, I will restict my postings to my threads from here on out...I see nothing of any real world use in the continual generation of symbols that do not support <I>my</I> goals, and I am quite sure that I do not wish to debate this issue any longer, it also has no positive effect on my goals...but, I want to state here before I go, that I do not feel that it supports yours, or anyone else's, either. -Mike

Mike, what ARE you talking about? Maybe what I've stated is more my MISSION or the OUTCOME of the completion of my goals.<P>Are you seriously upset by what I wrote? You state <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>There are those that want to change themselves...they are not happy with themselves, or their situation...and want to do something about it. That is what this is all about, and it has been shown to work. Don't like it? Don't want to believe its valid? That is fine...but do everyone a favor, and keep it to yourself, unless of course you have some real world methods to achieve the above stated goals...by all means I am open to anything.....? -Mike<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>What do you mean, "Don't like it? Don't want to believe its valid?" What are you referring to? YES, obviously there are things I can do DAILY but without the END in MIND then all my chasing is like chasing after the wind! How will I know until I get there? <P>So, are you suggesting with your comment, "but do everyone a favor, and keep it to yourself, unless of course you have some real world methods to achieve the above stated goals" that the biblical versus I'm referring to have no daily application? I beg to differ!<P>Anyway, what is up with your tone here? You seem annoyed...<P>Cheers!<BR><P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17

Mike, you also state some good steps to take - measureable indicators of reaching my above STATED goals: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>What is being asked is how specifically can I rid myself of the sense of being/need to be subjugated by my present set of circumstances?...how can I change my relationship with my spouse so that we both want to remain married?...how can I get the most from my life, my marriage, and my family? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><B>STEPS TO ACHIEVE MY GOAL:</B><BR>1) Demonstrate DAILY self-love, in order that I rid myself of the sense of being/need to be subjugated by my present set of circumstances<P>2) Change myself and allow the Spirit of God to teach and remind me of ways to grow and develop SO THAT my relationship with my spouse increases such that we both want to remain married<P>3) Submit myself to the TRUTH of God SO THAT I can get the most from my life, my marriage and my family AND SO THAT the Glory will be God's and HIS alone.<P>So, what's up with you? Why are you so upset? Something or someone has really gotten to you!?! I'm just trying to ferret out where I am at and maybe it's trite to you, but it's incredibly painful AND YET healing to me...<P>Don't give up on all of us now!!!<P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17

Ok I'm back for a few!!! Let me just say - I think it was one of those (G)odd moments that you started this thread. Its pretty uncanny that this is exactly the stuff that I am examining and working on in my own life, and dealing with directly, and here you are asking all these great questions that force me to think and stuff! <P>I am the world's BIGGEST martyr....but slowly I'm kinda crawling out of it. I hope some of my answers are helpful, rather than just confusing the issue!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>Yes, I do see... but how does one get out of these patterns? I am working on accepting the "me" that God created so long ago in the womb of my mother... I am living in fear... fear of living alone, fear of not being able to support my kids financially and emotionally if on my own, fear of not being the mother I can be even if I'm not pressured to work... fear fear fear. It's all back to "perfect love casts out all fear." I just need some supernatural or super-spiritual healing here!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, let me tell ya about the 3 A's: Awareness, Acceptance and Action.<P>And then, let me tell you about Progress, not Perfection...<P>You are obviously becoming painfully aware of the many character defects in yourself that have contributed to your circumstances. This is a wonderful thing - we can't move forward without identifying the problem!<P>So you have..... and now you are doing the same thing that I do ALL THE TIME. I skip right over Acceptance and go straight to Action. Aha!! I have a problem!! Now what am I going to DO to fix it?!!!<P>That's when I get into "forced" solutions. And they don't work. I want each problem fixed instantly upon recognition. And it doesn't happen that way. But when I try to force (ie control) it...I become frustrated and jaded.<P>One thing that I have discovered in myself is that most of my character defects are based on fear. Fear of not being enough. Fear of not being liked, not being good enough, fear of being alone.....and when I CHOOSE TO ALLOW my fear to make my decisions - I choose badly.<P>Perhaps you might want to focus on your fears. Do you journal? How about just sitting down for a few days and write (writing is important!) about those fears? I made major breakthroughs for myself when I finally sat down, and wrote out my fears and discussed them with my sponsor. She always said to me, "BR, The mind is like a bad neighborhood after dark. Never go alone...take a friend and hold hands."<P>All those boogie men turn out to be pretty silly nothings when we shed daylight into those dark corners of our minds.<P>Once I started identifying some of these problems and the sources, I started becoming willing to let God handle it. Let go and Let God becomes very signifcant when you turn your character defects over to him. Does it mean that I don't keep trying to overcome my faults? No. But it does mean that I have to put God in charge, and let Him do it in HIS time, not mine. Thats where that whole thing about Progress not Perfection comes in.<P>Be happy with progress. If you insist on perfection, you'll never be satisfied. We are imperfect beings in an imperfect world....<P>Does it mean we don't strive for perfection? No..it just means taking a breath and recognizing and ACCEPTING that we can't do it alone. Reality is what it is. Fantasy needs to be recognized and named for what it is.<P>I know that this isn't really the HOW answer you wanted. There really isn't one. It is something that I have worked at daily, and am only now finally beginning to see how it all fits together. If I had a penny for each time I would say to my sponsor: "But HOW do I?"<P>Do you know what her answers were? (and oh I hated it until I finally had a spiritual awakening) <P>She'd say: Make a decision and just DO it.<P>Ugh. I'll give you more of a hint than she gave me though... It involves letting GO and acceptance of your own character defects.<P>Ok, now, I'm hopping off my little soap box to go pack up my car. I'm headed to my H's apartment for the weekend. He's moving home this weekend after 18 months of separation. I NEEDED to have this chat with you just to get my own mindset in order! <P>((((((hugs))))))<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

Hi... <P>Thanks <B>BR</B>... so, how do you think it's going to go?<P>How are your kids feeling?<P>What are you "accepting" that won't change and what are you willing to change THIS time 'round with your H? <P>Very scary days ahead for you. Thanks for your words again in this thread... have a gentle weekend my dear!<P>Take care.<P>Nicole<P>ps - does everyone in AlAnon have a sponsor? You sound so blessed with her! Hey, I'm reading a very good book now that talks about life's stories by a bunch of Catholic women... I have thought of you a few times while reading it. Here's the title: <I>Holding Hands with God: Catholic Women Share Their Stories of Courage and Hope</I> edited by Ronda Chervin. It's so powerful... especially the first story on the ABUSES of human dignity. God help me NOT to pass this on to my children!<P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17

Actually, Nicole...<B>I am sorry</B>...those two posts were not intemded for you at all. I took specific offense at GNP's statement about 'some magical wish-fulfillment formula'...and the further implication that simply living righteously would somehow make your life work...IMHO, that is a sure fire 'formula' for misery. I am using <B>my</B> life as an example in this case, because that is the <B>exact</B> thing I have done for 38 years, what my parents do, and it causes many problems, not the least of which is the breakdown of my marriage, and a general resentment for 'the establishment'. Not where <B>I</B> want to be. As I said earlier, it is not productive for anyone for me to engage in a debate over the validity of what I am doing in my life...I'm not going to go there...I don't want to offend here, but I just see things differently, and I did not appreciate the sense that I got that my post constituted the wish-fulfilling formula...quite the contrary...it is a methodical procedure for creating real, and lasting substantial change. I stated that if someone disagreed, that is their prerogative, but I find it rude to dismiss it outright, and not give an alternative with substance...I'd rather they keep that to themselves, that is all. -Mike