Hello all,<P>I suppose mostly I am writing to my dear friends who know me well...but whomever may wish to share an opinion go for it.<P>After we arrived in TX things were a bit tough at first for me...I had posted my insecurities here which I have after our reconciliation. I lightened up a bit, enjoyed life and my H...things have been good.<P>But my dilemna seem a bit trite compared to the heartaches shared on this board. Believe me I know then well.<P>It seems that any minor disagreement we have is blown out of the water. We do not know how to handle ourselves w/o the friggin past coming up. Please...to those who know me and my charachter...I have always valued your constructive criticism but now I feel defensive. I cant have a dam opinion of my own....It seems if its different than his than I am immediately callled controlling and back to my old ways. that I havent changed. So, please JL, and all those who know me well. Yes I have many faults. I would rather admit defeat to my own ways tan admit defeat to my marraige.<P>So how do I find my own ground? I FEEL that when I express my own opinion on something that I am met with harshness. Quote That I let my emotions guide me. And they affect everyone else in the house. So when ever any one is having a bad day..(which is frequent with a pubescent daughter) its my fault.<P>I have been thinking alot about the EN questionaire that H refused to do, that all here say he will need time to show me his needs. <P>Is it not stinking OK that I have one or two?<P>Like mostly conversation. I get NONE. At least about us. Our days are filled with me going to work, H helping his mom, childcare etc. Am I unrealistic to think that MAYBE there could be some time for us? Is that demanding of me? Is it demanding to think that maybe if he stinking cared at all about me that he would take me out on a date? Since this is supposed to be a vacation for us as a family, and to give us a break from the little one's?<P>I am so unhappy. Why? I have the man I truely love...who has cheated on me for a year up until last month. Whammo bammo he says he will try. Quit OW. So here we are 3 weeks after he broke up with OW, only three weeks or so after he told me we could try on our marraige. Before that he said for seven months straight no hope, stay away etc. <BR>So I guess all my pain just goes away since he said he would try.<P>It seems all it will take is something like a minor disagreement to send us over the edge, like tonight. He has no clue, or better yet interest in the torment I feel under my facade of euphoria. Probly thinks I am mental because how easily I am hurt, over what a guy would think are minor things.<P>Like seeing his cell phone bills for the last six months, which are coming here to his mom's. He wouldnt understand how that would hurt me. Would just call me a baby.<P>Ok, so yes. I am having a HUGE pity party, and all are invited to help me snap out of it. At this point, I dont want to hear get over it...because thats I hear from him. I feel so alone. The tears, bottled in for so long, just come without warning as I type.<P>I really feel like bailing. It is insulting to me to hear from him to just get over it. No marraige counseling, no reading the Harley books as I have asked, not even a night out alone.<P>I am sorry if I have offended anyone here who wants nothing more than what I have now. Believe me, I know the grief firsthand. My prob is that I cannot simply overcome it with an "I love you" and "Forget about the past."<P>It really makes me feel absoloutely worthless. He came back, and I am still as miserable as when he was gone.<P>Dara <P>

You do have your hands full I will give you that. <BR>It is very hard to fix a marriage when only one is willing to work on it. I guess I am new to this site so I do not know your full story. To me that is the trap of doing everything there is to get someone back, sometimes you end up worse off than you were. Sure he has come back but it sounds like it is all on his terms and you are the one suffering for it. <P>Is there any communication at all between you? Does he even attempt to try and understand your hurts and feelings? If not...... well I guess I had best leave that advice to the experts.<P>

Hey Dara,<P>I don't know your story and I won't tell you to "just get over it". I think, although my situation is radically different, I see some of the same patterns. Anyway, I think it is reasonable to have some expectations, but expectations are tricky things. You don't often get what you expect the first time you expect it. You keep having to tell folks what you expect and sometimes, you eventually get it. Other times you don't.<P>Since I dont know your story, I don't know what you have read and what you have tried. Have you read "Boundaries in Marriage", by Cloud and Townsend? I think it might be helpful in your situation.<P>One of the things that I have found helpful for myself is to come to the view that I don't have to have my W in order to be happy. Since I don't have to have her, I can enforce my expectations on her a little more freely. I have in the past been a compliant person - and, guess what?, I get whatever my W wants to give me. In order to get something else, I have to set some boundaries and let her know that I won't always be there for her. This is a little bit tricky to explain. I don't mean to say that I would abandon her just because we have problems - just that there are some things that I won't accept from her - and some things I won't do for her. I haven't yet fully figured out how to apply this myself - I'm just beginning to see some progress. I agree that your H doesn't seem to be trying very hard. The pure Harley approach (Plan A) requires that you do whatever you do without any expectation of change in your spouse. I haven't really tried that since my separation, but it seems to me that it is what I have been doing, unsuccessfully, in my whole marriage. So, I'm trying a different approach - which seems to work a little so far, but which I can't really claim to explain yet. A critical issue is respect. If your H doesn't respect you, he will continue to take advantage of you. How to gain that respect is another question. I suppose there are many ways - but setting and enforcing boundaries seems to be one effective way.<P>-AD

Dara,<P>Dobson (Love must be tough) says that a common mistake is to take the betraying spouse back too soon - without requiring that he make any changes. Have you read that book? Do you think that might apply in your case. The author recommends that you don't let the betrayer read it - but read it alone.<P>-AD

Tator tot,<P>Thank you for responding...<P>Yeah there is communication betwen the two of us...you know..the same conversation you have with the stranger next to you on the elevator.<P>Of course H wouldnt say that..."Hey Dara hoiw are you feeling?"<P>"OK Rick..hey, actually you know I've been feeling a bit insecure to be honest. I've been thinking about how many times in the recent past you have told me you want nothing to do with me. That you couldnt even stand to have me touch you, much less look at you. So here I am..wondering whats going on right now...Feeling like I am walking on eggshell's so that you dont feel that way again about me because I love you so much. (thinking to myself...when he said all I was to him was a redundant distraction, how he recoiled when I tried to touch his hand, how he sais he couldn't stand the sight of me)<P>Sure we have had communication since then.since our reconciliation..<P>His soloution is to just "forget about the past..if you quuit thinking about it so much it wont bother you. you chose to dwell on it because you a re a negative person."<P>Dara

I do really wonder if you did not let him back into your life too soon. There is great merit in saving any union, but to me there has to be a certain amount of self respect that has to go along with it. It sounds to me that you wanted him back so bad you did all the tricks and won him back into your life but lost the game. <P>You have to set certain boundries that you will not cross, sad to say but just having him back under the conditions you are citing is not a good omen for long term success. <BR>Unless you get your needs meet to and you are able to talk it out and agree to seek some help for your marriage, you are looking at the Big D now or later. <P>One suggestion I have is to try <A HREF="http://www.retrouvaille.org/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.retrouvaille.org/</A> it has worked wonders for some people I know. I know you say he refuses to read any of this site or try but at some point you will have had enough and put your foot down. You are going to have to look him in the eye and just say this is not working for me we have got to do something. <P>I hope the best for you.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AbandonedDad:<BR><B>Dara,<P>Dobson (Love must be tough) says that a common mistake is to take the betraying spouse back too soon - without requiring that he make any changes. Have you read that book? Do you think that might apply in your case. The author recommends that you don't let the betrayer read it - but read it alone.<P>-AD</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thank you Ad for your thoughful responses...yes Love must be tough was the first book I read post Dday, back in January. <P>Yes, you made an excellent point. I have spent the last seven months in agont over the demise of our marraige. This spring I would come her on my days off and spend all day getting encouragement here just to make it throught the day w/o him. Knowing he was spoending his days with her. And lying through his teeth about it..<P>you know what? after reading love must be tough, and seperating myself from him back in those desperate spring months...independence was the ONLY thing that caught his eye in me....<P>I was set forht on moving back home, here to Texas to be close to my mom and his mom. His mom was going to give me a house to stay in here in San Antonio, free of charge. But Richard loves Washington State, and after he couldnt talk me into living alone up there because of no family.......he said he couldnt be w/o the little ones, to please stay. I refused, beacause I had no support systen up there.<P>Finally he said he would stay with me if I would stay there.<P>Just Learning knows me and my story all too well. Was I just a fool?<P>JL, he hasnt tried at all. The only time he pays attention to me is when he wants to be intimate. Once again, as I felt before when he was intimate with me while he was with her...I FEEL like his whore. Of course how could I tell him that? He had no prob being intimate with me everyday while he was "in love" with her. so what is different now? Pyschically he is here, say's the occasional "I love you" and thats IT. <P>He hasnt shown me any different, that he now values us. The ONLY differnece between now and 2-3 months ago is that he says every other day or so that he loves me, coincidentally siding with how physical he feels.<P>I'm not dumb. I am pretty smart I think. And although I hate to say this, even though it makes the hairs on my back stand up...he has been taking me for a ride, and dammit I have been falling for it.<P>I am so sorry AD, Jl and all to lay all this down on you guys, but you all are my dear friends...Those who I can trust to be honest with me...I seek your opinion. Without him willing to try I honestly dont see us having a chance.<P><BR>Dara<P><p>[This message has been edited by Learning as I go (edited July 28, 2001).]

Well well,<P>Since last night H is not talking to me. He is busy helping his mom have a birthday party for one of the grnadchildren. Soooo, as usual, he will cook, serve and clean up for a party of at least fifteen people. <P>Since we have been here he has become his mom's servant. Dont get me wrong..she needs the help, and I love her dearly. She supported me during the throes of his rejection. Does she not have a clue that it would be nice for me and H to spend some time together? He is organizing her finances (very complex due to some inherited property) cooking cleaning running her errands etc.<P>My mom lives here in SA as well. I am strongly considering moving to her house while we are here. I'd rather be alone than continue feeling like a fly on the wall at his mom's.<P>And now he's not talking to me. He slept on the couch last night. There is no way in hell I will go to him again to tell him how I feel. I tried to talk to him yesterday, and was met with what I wrote last night, he said I need to get over it, that I let my emotions guide me and affect everyone.<P>Completely dis-validated everything I feel. I gave him my paycheck last night to see if he could deposit it at his moms bank, and she could write us a check for the amount. Instead, he sat up last night with her, having her write out checks to pay our bills. W/o discussing it with me. And I have the control issues? Could he not mention it to me first? <P>SO now I will go home, sit around some more being completely ignored. (I'm at the library)<P>I wish I could run away. This is hard work, reconciliation. Only possible with two committed people. Not one. And the other telling the one to "just get over the past".<P>Dara

Whenever I feel the need to go to the past, it is nearly always traceable to unresolved issues that I feel are still affecting the relationship. Whenever I hear someone say 'just get over it', the state that I am in says that invalidates my position. The truth is somewhat different. Usually, that other person is saying something more along the lines of, I'm not prepared to answer for those actions in the past...this is okay, as long as the are prepared to ensure that they don't repeat that behavior. I get some closure when I realize that their position is not one of denial so much as an inability to accept responsibility. The real issue is what am I going to do about it?<P>Relationships are about rapport...being able to build a bridge to a middle ground....I must be willing to meet the other person in their model of reality, not insist that they meet me in mine. Once I can do that, then they are given the opportunity to come out of their model, and closer to mine. Ultimately, we end up in a new model of reality that validates us both. When a relationship breaks down, it is because both refuse to leave their subjective model of reality...in this case...You (and I) insist on having the past retroactively validated...it is their continuing refusal to do that keeps us trapped in the past...which is not realistic at all. Unfortunately, the only quick answer is 'just deal with it'...how you do that is never fully explained, which only serves to make matters worse. Its like being in a tail spin...normal controls just make us spin more wildly.<P>Your current situaton is showing you this very clearly...are you listening? No one is going to be able to help you here...in fact, I'd wager that no one is even offering to help. You will have to do this yourself, or continue the out of control spiral. In my case, I decided that my validation has to come from me, and I must change my model of reality to match my circumstances. I can either be a victim of my circumstances, or the master of them. It takes a couple of serious u-turns in values in order to do that. The common complaint is that that is 'not being true to yourself'...actually, the reverse is true. I must change myself to match reality, it is ludicrous to assume that reality will change to suit my needs. 6 billion people equals 6 billion realities....not realistic at all. -Mike<p>[This message has been edited by waiting_for_her (edited July 28, 2001).]

Dara,<P>I am not sure if you remember me, but I remember you and your story and all your struggles and pain: your H's A, the OW--it was like a nightmare, huh?<P>Okay, you and I are sort of in similar situations right now. My H had his A and left me and the kids in Feb. 2000. By summertime, he agreed to come home "because the kids deserved two parents" but he didn't want to be my H. Then, he left for almost the whole month of December, and missed the Holidays and New Years with us that year. The reason I'm telling you all these "highlights" is so that you can see that I have been through some of the same painful, mean, spiteful stuff that you have--you know, the actions that make you wonder, "Who is this man and why does he hate me so? Why can't he see how much he is hurting us? And if he can see, why doesn't he stop?" <P>Naturally, during the time that he left and was with his OW, I spent most of my time surviving, learning and growing, and trying to get him back. I got the day-to-day chores of life in order and was able to take care of myself and my kids. YAY! Then I learned of all the ways that I had contributed to this affair (not caused it, but contributed), and I learned about lovebusting and emotional needs, and I learned that I needed to work on me! Last but not least, the more I learned and grew, the more I shared with him, Plan A'ed my a$$ off, changed my ways and took charge of myself. Of course, this was met with a lot of sarcasm and belittling and "yeah right" from my H (at first), but I think eventually he began to see that the OW was not a bed of roses and I was not the evil witch he accused me of being. <P>During the summer we lived in the same house but weren't a couple--during the fall we separated again--and in the winter he left us during the holidays. OUCH! Nonetheless, I kept on trying to explain LBs and ENs and some of the other MB principals, and he wanted nothing to do with it. Thought it was a waste of time and psychobabble--a bunch of stuff some preacher "made up". You know what I mean, right? It broke my heart because I KNEW deep down that if I could only get the message across to him and he could only hear the message and understand, it would change our marriage forever. Finally, in Spring this year, we agreed to reconcile and try again. This time, I thought he really was serious and wanted to work on our marriage, and I thought he sorta understood that LBs and ENs were important. Nope. He knew the words and knew their definitions, but still didn't quite see what good they were and how much difference it would make. Another six months went by, and like you, I was going crazy to "make" him understand, and like you, I was also slowly dying inside. Dying for some "couple time" and respect and admiration and just general affectionate behavior and pleasant conversations. I'm not talking about the moon and the stars here, just holding hands and pleasant talks over coffee or out on the porch. <P>Dara, look over some of my old posts. You'll see how I struggled and wept and tried EVERYTHING to explain to him how important this was, and at every turn he didn't want to hear it. It wasn't until recently that I realized something. He wasn't ready. Think of it a little bit like an alcoholic. I don't think too many folks would argue that being an active alcoholic is "bad for you"--bad physically and emotionally and spiritually. It harms you, but it also harms those around you. And you can talk to an alcoholic until you are blue in the face about how bad it is for them, and how they need to go to AA, and about the AA steps, and ALL of that stuff--BUT UNTIL THEY ARE READY INSIDE THEMSELF, THEY WILL NOT HEAR IT. Heck, they might even argue with you about it! "Drinking "a little" isn't so bad--it relaxes me. I am funnier when I am drunk. Drinking makes me popular." Right? Well, your H's arguments are: "Having an A wasn't so bad--I felt loved. I was happier when I was having an A. An A makes me more loveable." Get it? He is not ready and he can not hear you. <P>So, you are the lady who's H is an active alcoholic--who choses to stay in her marriage. She can not "make" him go to AA and stop drinking. She CAN take care of herself, protect herself, change herself, and keep bringing up AA and the AA steps, etc. Your H is still an "inloveaholic" and you have chosen to stay in your marriage. He has not yet admitted TO HIMSELF that he has a problem. All the Plan A'ing that you have done is not in vain and all the talking about ENs and LBs are not useless, because the words and actions will sit in his heart like little seeds UNTIL THE DAY COMES THAT HE IS READY. Until then, your job is to take care of yourself, protect yourself, change yourself and keep talking about ENs and LBs and MB principals as you can.<P>See, Dara, the thing is, like you, I thought once we reconciled in spring this year, that it would be like a fairytale again. He would realize what a doofus he had been and how badly he had treated me, and he would be Prince Charming and sweep me off my feet to make up for it. He would be all romantic and loving and gentle and affectionate to me as his way of saying, "I am so lucky you stayed with me. I have won the prize, and now I will shower you with rose petals for the rest of your life." Right? Come on, be honest. It's a bit of an exaggeration, but that's kinda what you thought it would be like, right? And instead he's grumpy, withdrawn, irritable, controlling, nosy, jumpy, disrespectful, jealous/suspicious, defensive, etc. and you can't help but think, "You agreed to come back! Where is that Prince Charming?" You thought he would be patient and understanding and reassuring when you felt insecure, and instead he is impatient, doesn't want to hear about it, and if he does anything, he reassures the INSECURITY rather than reassuring you that you have nothing to be insecure about. It's a HUGE let down, isn't it? HUGE!!!!<P>Well, sweety, this is the real world. Unfortunately, this is what real reconciliation is like--it hurts more than the darn affair did! In many ways, the A was devastating and threw you off balance, but it was like a death. It was over and you knew you had lost--and although that hurt, you could grieve and recover (slowly over time). In reconciliation, though, the painful stuff remains and does not stop, it's not over or dead--so you can't grieve--and you haven't lost, but you never really get to win either. The fights and things hurt worse than they normally would have because BEFORE he was leaving you and divorcing you, and NOW he is supposed to want you! Besides that, after all this time of being so hurt and rejected and dumped, you want SO BADLY to be reassured, loved, and happy again.<P>Soooo...after all that introduction, here is my advice to you. Do not give up on the ENs and LBs, but do remember that he is not going to get it or hear you until HE IS READY. Keep trying to Plan A as best as you can--but this time, keep the emphasis on kindly and lovingly doing what is in YOUR BEST INTEREST. Do not keep trying to "make him happy", because you can't do that, and do not keep waiting for him to "make you happy", because he can't do that either. Dara, you are a kind, loving, thoughtful, funny, wonderful woman! Celebrate that within yourself. Become the best DARA that you can be, and let yourself find your own joy--with or without him. <P>This one is going to sting: when he says, "forget about the past..if you dwell on it you become a negative person..." he is right. I'm not suggesting that you can forget what happened, or ignore it. NOPE! But, no matter how much you mull it over and evaluate it and talk about it and cry about it, you will never, EVER be able to change it. It was a horrible thing, for you and for him. Let me tell you what I think he means when he says that: "I care about you and I have hurt you in an unspeakable way, but I can never make up for it. It will hang over my head forever, and you will never, ever stop using it as a weapon against me, and I can't defend myself because I DID IT!" Can you imagine how you would feel if you made a god-awful stupid mistake, then tried to cover up the mistake, then wanted to keep doing it even though it was a mistake and you knew it was a mistake, AND THEN ONE DAY YOU REALIZED IT WAS WRONG? My god, it takes tons of courage to come back and say, "I made a mistake and I want to try to make it right." (Of course, the only problem is, he is not ready to hear how to make it right yet. He thinks he can fix it "his own way"). Anyway, I suggest you TRY to look only at the way things were TODAY. Do not drag in, "Well, when he acted this way in the past, he yelled at me, so I'll defend myself first to avoid the attack". NO. Give him the chance to pick the right thing, and take the risk of thinking "maybe he will pick a better way to act/react". And THEN, if he does not pick the better way to act/react, he is doing it TODAY. Does this make any sense? Here's an example. In the past, my H would do a BIG exhale and roll his eyes but not say anything, and that would mean he was mad about something. I would say, "Is something wrong?" and he would jump into a tyrade. Fairly simple. Now, when I hear the big exhale and see him roll his eyes, I have two choices: A) Assume he is mad about something and about to jump down my throat, so I will defend myself before he says anything by saying, "What the hell is your problem?" or B) Give him the chance to pick the right thing, and take the risk of thinking "maybe he will pick a better way to act/react". So, I still say, "Is something wrong?" and he says, "I am very worried that we won't have time to get the yard mowed today--can you help me with the mowing so we can get it done quicker?" He picked a better way to act/react!!<P>Another thing about "forget the past..if you dwell on it you become a negative person..." is to evaluate TODAY based on TODAY'S behavior and where you two are going in the future vs. based on where you two have been in the past. Look, Dara, you know that ways that you contributed to this A, right? You didn't meet his emotional need, and you lovebusted all over the place, and he was weak and made a bad choice. But wouldn't you feel sick if you had learned how to meet one of his ENs, and you were practicing meeting that EN every day, but you were constantly reminded of the days when you didn't? Let me be practical. You would like him to spend some time talking with you, right, about "couple stuff"? But when you talk to him, it's like you throw up all over him. So, why don't you get practical and say, "I would like a half hour each night when we could review the day, tell each other how we felt about the things that happened and the way it made us feel, and what we could have done better." I know--half an hour isn't long, but it's a start. Here's the tricky part now: KEEP IT TO ONLY HALF AN HOUR, so he can feel like he won't be interrogated and you will feel like you have the chance to talk and be heard. Next, keep the talk very focused on TODAY ONLY. Like, "I enjoyed waking up with you, and laying in bed for a few extra minutes in your arms. I was a little afraid when you were down in the kitchen banging the pots and pans around, because I thought you were mad (do NOT drag in the past here!!!!!), but we had a good talk and you told me what was bothering you, and I felt glad that we could talk without fighting. I did not like the way you yelled at me while you were mowing. I felt like it was an over-reaction, and it really hurt my feelings (do NOT drag in the past here, either!!!!). I know you were feeling tired, hot, and overwhelmed, but next time, it would be better if you took care of yourself and asked me for a cool drink or help. I would be happy to help you cool off or help you mow." Dara--do you get it? It's only about TODAY. Maybe he was quiet and withdrawn today, but he didn't hurt you or yell or attack. Maybe he tried to talk to you, and you brought up the past and he clammed up--well, own up to it! May you tried to talk to him and keep it focused on TODAY, but HE kept bringing up the past. Keep saying, over and over, "I'm trying to deal with just this issue from TODAY." Furthermore, we all make mistakes and have bad days while we are doing this. I know for a FACT that there have been days that I LBed ALL OVER THE PLACE because I was tired, hurt and human. The trick is to own up to it and learn what to do better next time.<P>Dara, I know this is a short novel, but you know what? I have been where you are. No one told you that reconciling would be more painful than the A, did they? No one told you that it wouldn't be a fairytale again, did they? And this hits you like a ton of bricks because you want it so badly. I know this sounds so cliche, but be calm from the inside and be patient. Work on you, and love YOU. It's not selfish, it's self love. I guarantee you, he is not out of the fog yet. The fog has lifted a lot, and the headlights are kind of piercing the fog, but there's still fog there. Try to be steady and stay on the path that you know you need to be on, and when you can't do it anymore and when you are desparate for hugs or support or love, come here to the MB forum, and we will give you the hugs and support and love until he is able to. <P>The beauty of this place is that you can come here and pour out your heart to us, and not necessarily slaughter him in the process. You can get it out of your system without a homocide! Heehee. I know you feel like you are all alone in trying to make your marriage work, but he is there in a way--he's just still the "inloveaholic" who hasn't realized that he has a problem. <P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Dara}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Dara}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Dara}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P><BR>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Dara,<P>Here is how I see it. Your H is only three weeks into withdrawal. He is still not ready to face the music. He will in time it seems to take 2-3 months at least based on what I have read here over the years.<P>He is also trying to build up his self worth with his mother. He knows he has shamed her with his behavior and so I suspect he is trying to make amends. Unfortunately, that is leaving you out in the cold right now. But that is more because he really cannot face you right now.<P>The time will come when he can and then you can determine if you and he want to be married. Right now he is running from what he has done. I don't really think going to your mother's right now would be best.<P>However, if your mother invited you to spend a few days at her house, I think it would be appropriate for you to go spend some time with her. <P>Dara, as CJ said, this is a really tough period. I know you want your H back the way he was but it takes time. So enjoy your kids, work fewer hours, get out and see friends and relatives. Eat plenty of Tex Mex . Decide that this is going to be your vacation and make it as much of one as you can. Takes the kids to the theme park (Fiesta Texas??) there and watch the laser show, hit SeaWorld. <P>Dara, right now there is nothing you can do. It is his turn to heal and all you can do is wait for him to get through withdrawal. So do your best not to worry about it. OK??<P>Dara, you can do this, and I suspect your marriage will survive. It just take so much darn patience. Hang in there girl. You are doing fine.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Hi Dara...<P>Sorry I'm so late jumping in here. I have been moving and in and out of internet connection.<P>Well, I'm sensing the same old temptation you've faced in the past... impatience.<P>I really like what CJ has said to you about keeping EVERYTHING in the present - for today. Do not react based on the past.<P>I'm also concerned about what she said about how hard reconciliation is. You also are going through your own adjustment. Try to enjoy this time to be alone. JL hit it right on the head that he needs to make up for his "bad boy" behavior from his mother... she sounds the rescuing type since she offered you her home to say and such. Well, just let him go for a few more weeks. <P>Try to continue working on you... try also to notice the little things he may do for you (remember when he brought you coffee in the morning and it wasn't enough for you?). Step back a bit and acknowledge and affirm the small steps he makes without expecting the world... he's as JL said, still in withdrawal.<P>Take care my dear! Yes, as JL also said, do something else - focus on something else for the time being. Can you find a church? Is there any bible study you could pick up?<P>Given the fact that you haven't yet resolved all your FOO issues that BR was helping you through earlier with abuses and such, I'd limit your time with your mother and family. Just in doses... you have to work through those issues sometime as well!<P>Are you going to weekly - bi-weekly counseling?<P>Take care!<BR>Cheers!<BR>Nicole<P>------------------<BR><I>The new country is where you are called to go, and the only way to go there is naked and vulnerable</I> Henri Nouwen

Dara,<P>I'm happy that JL has been pitching his excellent advice. Early recovery sucks---in some ways, it's worse than Plan A or Plan B (I've been posting that a lot recently, too---maybe it's something in the air). I'm going to give you some general, generic-type advice.<P>1. Call the Harley's, if at all possible. It's times like these when I really needed Steve's "atta-boy" attitude. He and Jenn are terrific coaches and motivators, and one of the major issues is maintaining motivation during these early stages. They would also help you with the "initial navigation through the emotional minefields of recovery", which is really what you could use right now. 888-639-1639 for appointments.<P>2. If you could have your husband do one (1) thing at this point, what would it be? Would it be to learn to accept honesty from you without resorting to lovebusting behavior? Trying to meet a 15 hour/week (hahahahaha) timeframe for the two of you to spend quality time together? Meeting your need for conversation?<P>I'd suggest that you really figure out what one thing (hopefully achievable) your husband could do for you now, to make you feel better about the marriage.<P>3. Ask him for what his top 3-5 things are. Listen. And then go about creating and executing a plan to do these things. Show him how it's done, and do so generously and lovingly.<P>I know that you're frustrated, and that Plan B is looking pretty good. It's possible that you may end up there too---but you can't go there for at least 6 months (that's my very own rule). You're in recovery, and you have to commit to it the same way that you would commit to Plan A. Get into counseling, and hopefully that will give you some strength and encouragement. <P>God bless.

(((Dara)))<P>How are the children doing through all of this???<P>My 2 pennies are to give Richard the space that he wants. I don't mean separation just love him without expectations for right now. It's real easy to take his words to heart but think of where those words are coming from right now. I believe that a lot of his words are said out of guilt, frustration, and anger. These are not words upon which we should make tough decisions in our lives.<P>You both have a lot of issues to deal with right now and he may not be dealing with them as you like. Let's hope for now that he is dealing with them and just focus on yourself. <P>Focus your energy's on:<BR>1. YOUR CHILDREN<BR>2. Healing yourself from the hurt you've been through<BR>3. As others have said, Being the best DARA you can be<P>No matter what happens with Richard those are three key ingredients that you still need in your life. <P>It's obvious that he is not ready to deal with the issue's and if you force him to deal with them then you are only pushing him away. Sure there may come a time soon when you will be forced to make another decision on the future of your marriage, but I just don't think that right now is the time to do that.<P>Hugs, Thoughts, & Prayers from KANSAS<P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-