Neuro Linguistic Programming is a process of modeling human excellence. It is a systematic approach to achieving desired outcomes in interpersonal relationships, work, and life in general. It involves models, perceptions, and procedures for obtaining desired outcomes, and even defininf desired outcomes. It is necessarily a complex system.<P>NLP attempts to explain the how, whereas conventional psychological wisdom examines the why. Conventional psychology concerns itself with why we do not interact successfully in our relationships (pathology). NLP looks at what the nature of the interaction is, and how it may be improved. There is an emphasis on modeling successful behavior, which in other methodologies is called acting 'as-if', but NLP does not condone simply apeing behavior, or mimicking it either...that is dispespectful.<P>Four basic presuppositions of NLP are:<BR> 1. Rapport - This is where you build trust, and responsiveness using body language, words and mirroring and pacing. It is also the portion of the program where you gain inner peace (Rapport with yourself.) Once you establish rapport with yourself, you can establish it with another. The whole martyr syndrome is a result of looking for inner peace through external verification. Specifically, for example...I may look to validate myself by the quality of my relationship to my XW. That's obviously not going to work, and the <B>program</B> that I am running at that point will not produce my desired outcome of reconciliation. What I need to do, therefore, is establish rapport with myself, change the value that I have that requires external justification, and establish rapport with her in <B>her</B> model of the world.<P>2. Desired outcomes. This is referred to as goal setting in other disciplines, but NLP takes it much further than most. There is, in fact a model for designing desired outcomes that I will not use any space here describing right now.<P>3. Sensory acuity. This is largely observation of the physical nature of the interaction, qualification of the 'sensory modalities', and using the feedback to adjust your actions in order to produce the desired outcome. These sensory modalities are complex, as well, and I will expound upon them separately later, as well. For now, realize that they are your 5 senses, and are a very large component of the NLP process.<P>4. Behavioral flexibility. The more you increase the options you have, and get better at determining which is appropriate at any given time, and applying it properly, the better your chances of success are, and the time to success is decreased dramatically. This is another area where the BS needs some help. We typically only know of two, and both are 'out of our control' in our current mindsets. They are both also responsible for our failure to achieve our desired outcomes.<P><BR>This is an extreme oversimplification of the process, and I have left much out of it. Its very complex, because it involves looking at things in a very non-traditional manner, releasing preconceived notions of the mechanics of human interaction, and the realization that there are alternatives to passively accepting 'the way things are'. It also requires that you fully understand the difference between influence, and control. We can control ourselves, and influence others, but our current models see things differently. (i.e. We attempt to control others, and influence ourselves.)<P>I have not read this book, but Genie Laborde's 'Influencing with Integrity' has been praised as being a highly readable treatment of NLP. Tony Robbins' 'Ultimate Power', and 'Awaken The Giant Within' are NLP based, and I have a book called 'The Sourcebook of Magic' by L. Michael Hall.<P>NLP began in the 1970s with the work of Richard Bandler and John Grinder. Bandler was a programmer and Grinder, a linguist. They used Virginia Satir, Frederick Perls and Milton Erickson as their initial models. (These people are all literally giants in their fields.) Since then, the process has been refined and expanded.<P>As I said before, there is no real way to reduce it to a level that it can be instantly digestible. There is a great deal of terminology (it has its own jargon), and there are many levels that build one upon the other. You must either study it intensely, or leave it by the roadside. -Mike

quote from you Mike <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You must either study it intensely, or leave it by the roadside. -Mike<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>So, is this where you've been these past couple of days? Or did something happen with your ISP? Yes, you are missed... check in will ya?<P>Anyway, I've checked on the Genie Laborde book and found these reviews from Amazon: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> A very practical overview of how to communicate for win/win, September 6, 1999 <BR>Reviewer: sbryks@globalserve.net from Toronto, Canada<BR>Although this book is 10 years old, it remains very "current" and powerful. Communicating is the essence of what people do, and so often failure of good communications inhibits and injures. The book offers a great insight and practical approaches to improving communications and negotiating for positive outcomes. A "must" for anyone, but especially for people whose work involves communicating with others (most of us).<P><BR> The classic work on using NLP in sales and negotiation, July 30, 1999 <BR>Reviewer: Andy Smith (see more about me) from London, England<BR>One of the best things about this book is that, as the title suggests, it effectively answers that old chestnut about NLP being manipulative. Genie has simplified the Meta Model down to five types of "Pointers" which you can anchor to your fingers so you can remember them easily! She also has useful exercises for developing sensory acuity.<P>As a UK NLP trainer I can wholeheartedly recommend this very clear, readable and useful book which anyone in business, or in fact anyone, will benefit from. Of course, being an NLP book, it's "enlivened" by a lot of crap illustrations, but don't let that put you off.<P> Fabulous and effective., September 13, 1998 <BR>Reviewer: A reader from Ventura, CA<BR>Ms. Laborde carefully and sensitively outlines several aspects of communication patterns and possibilities. I've been helped tremendously by her book, and am frankly a little surprised that she hasn't become more well known and sought after. The book is deceptively simple, while being incredible profound. I eagerly await her next book.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So, I've added it to my wish list... I may try to find some library in Wheaton to see if I can check it out... $13 isn't chump change these days..<P>Cheers!<BR>Nicole<P>ps - please a little more of the framework on "setting goals" or would you rather I read the book then chat with ya about this stuff?<P><P>------------------<BR><I>The new country is where you are called to go, and the only way to go there is naked and vulnerable</I> ~ Henri Nouwen

You aren't dead!! YEA <P>Okay, I'll go read and digest what you've written now... be back...

Sheryl...<P>He hasn't posted since the 28th of July... what do you think is going on?<P>I'm going to do a search on the internet to find his coordinates... will check back in a minute...<P>Suitably concerned,<BR>Nicole<P>------------------<BR><I>The new country is where you are called to go, and the only way to go there is naked and vulnerable</I> ~ Henri Nouwen

I know. <P>I see that now. <P>I'm worried....

nicole,<P>I found his email. I wrote, and cc'd it to you.<P>Hope he responds...

Okay, so I left this hanging...that was not my intent.<BR>Right now, I'm just going to move it up. Since Teri is out of town, I'm going to try to get the book here through interlibrary loan...That will save us all $13 for the time being. Most NLP books start out talking about sensory modalities, and establishing rapport. In other words, they get to the mechanics of communication straight away. As I have lamented before, it is complex stuff, and delivered as such. This book offers a thinned out version, and could be helpful in that respect. I have a coffee table book (and a coffee table to put it on, I might add!...just no coffee right now!) that distills it pretty well.<BR> The 'Source Book for Magic' really breaks goal setting (these are called positive outcomes in NLP parlance...sometimes desired outcomes. I like the added implication that it is more global than a goal...which to me sounds personal, and sometimes unrealistic.)<BR>I still have a ton of housework, and mowing to do...and I've got my 'orientation', etc. tonight. Plus, Garrett is coming home tomorrow...earlier than Spencer, Sam, and Teri. Not sure what, if anything that means...I'm using that ABCDE thing on that one. I want it to mean that he still doesn't accept the relationship that Teri and Rodney are very public about now. That isn't good, even if it is true. Later -Mike

Mike, where's the link again to that NLP stuff? I need to re-read it.<P>Cheers,<BR>Nik<P>------------------<BR><I>The new country is where you are called to go, and the only way to go there is naked and vulnerable</I> ~ Henri Nouwen

I need to put it back on the website...first, I have to make some dinner for the cats (okay, weird, but I have no cat food, and a roast that needs to be cooked, and four hungry cats...talk about annoying...its worse than a six year old without Nickelodeon!)<P>I was digesting the positive outcomes (goal setting) model some more, and trying to 'chunk it down'. (NLP actually has a term for the process of understanding complex issues...and a model for figuring them out...a little bit of a circular argument, but what isn't these days?)<P>Before my vampire nap...I was reading about a pattern (actually, a meta pattern...I'll explain that in a minute...) called flexibility of responses. We each tend to (ESPECIALLY A BS...AND A WS, TOO!) view the world from our own perspective exclusively in stressful times. That is called first perceptual position. ('You only see your side of things'...oops, never state the obvious!) By pacing, and mirroring, you are taking the second perceptual poistion, and meeting the other in their model of the world. Most people that study NLP, and don't like it think this is somehow false. I disagree. I think it is respectful, as long as you are positively motivated, and not simply apeing the other...which is rude. Anyway, there is also a third perceptual position. My point is that we tend to be in second person with our WS...who is full bore first perceptual position, and using everything under the sun to justify it. That knowledge alone gives me the strength to let a lot of it slide on that basis. (No, I haven't forgotten a thing, I just looked at it from the THIRD perceptual position...I am sorry that Teri is {WHATEVER}, but that's all at this point.) Like I said, it is a tangible tool for me. Even if this is a personal campaign against me, it doesn't matter...and I can see that I am the one who is moving beyond me! (Except...<B>I'm</B> taking me with me! Awful grammar, but I like it anyway!) That is what I was trying to use that 'ABCDE' model to do...get a grip on how I responded to what she was/is doing, so that I could get on with MY LIFE. Besides, it really takes all of the fun out of it for her, I think. It honestly has had a positive effect already. THE VERY STRANGE THING is that I didn't want to take the job at the convenience store in order to avoid people's scrutiny...too late for that, and they get to see what I am doing about things...plus, I get all the free donuts I can eat when I get to work! Not the best perk...but, Nicole...we are talking donuts here! As Homer Simpson says...'Is there nothing they can't do?'<BR>Okay...I lost the crock pot in the divorce, and I really don't want that broiler on today...welcome to the dog days of summer in the corn belt, BTW! -Mike

Hi Mike...<P>Can you cut and paste the work you did and post it here or send it to me? OvrCsMB@aol.com<P>Thanks. I really want to think about it more... it's connecting with some of the stuff I was reading this past year.<P>Cheers!<P>------------------<BR><I>The new country is where you are called to go, and the only way to go there is naked and vulnerable</I> ~ Henri Nouwen

Mike, are you ready to dialogue about this a little more or are you onto another book?<P>Cheers,<BR>Nicole<P>------------------<BR><I>"You will deceive yourself into believing that if people, circumstances, and events had been different, your pain would not exist...Your pain is the concrete way in which you participate in the pain of humanity."</I> <BR>~ Henri Nouwen ~

You know, I am positive that I posted a response in this earlier...had some trouble woth posting, but got it figured out...too bad I didn't have time to check this one...man, I cured cancer, and made everybody get along, too! Shoot! <P>We were talking about desired outcomes, and I was reading about a model for creating them...goal setting on steroids. Take the posts to Jacky about her 'Hiroshima' performance. We already knew the desired outcome...get his attention, make him think about her, and what he would be missing when she returned to Australia. There were no impediments in the 'ecology check', she was integrated in that respect. Her actions caused no harm, and she was comfortable with doing what was required. In fact, I think she rather enjoyed it, aside from the result she got. What I may not have made apparent in that ws the importance of being able to get sensory details of the desired outcome...how does it look, smell, taste, feel, sound, etc. How is it different? How is it the same? These things get the 'whole brain' on the job, IMHO. Your subconscious does not evaluate things, it simply takes what you feed it verbatim, and produces what you ask of it. Once you are 'with that', you realize the importance of the proper 'care and feeding ' of it, and these little internal movies make a lot more sense. Have you ever tried meditation, or self-hypnosis? A major chunk of early NLP work was the modelling of Milton Erickson, who is widely regarded as the authority on self-hypnosis. I also posted a lot to Katie Carlson with respect to creating vivid positive outcome scenarios. The trouble in her case, no offense to her, is that she keeps getting bogged down in the 'he said/she said' mechanical nature of the faulty interaction. That is the worry in this, to me. What is the easiest LB? No contest....the disrespectful judgement....I mean, the nature of the WAS is to create that one. Teri is doing it...does something completely out of her character, and then dares me to call her on it. She is trying to LB so that I will 'give it up', and she can be retroactively justified. I no longer buy into that. Okay, she's gone, I get it. I think that she 'needs to get over' herself, and I can't help her there. See, when I do that, I am not acting with integrity, because that does not support any goal of mine. None of my goals involve arguing with her, or subjugating my authority over my life for her. She can LB all she wants, I will not engage...I'm in withdrawal, to be honest, not her. She is definitely in conflict, but she is there alone now. If she'd end the affair, I'd go to conflict in a minute! <P>Anyway, I found out that my ISP has corrected a double billing, and will put the information back, plus I have some more that might interest you...about desired outcomes, and beliefs. -Mike

This is the only MB Thread with NLP in the Title. I am adding this post to make it easier for me to find, from my recent posts list, as well as to Boot this thread to the front. NLP is discussed in some other threads, but I have yet to find an in-depth discussion thread.

I am studying NLP for the purpose of improving my coaching skills for changing annoying habits for my Wife and College Son.

Here is a Link to another MB Thread discussing NLP aspects of Self Hypnosis for habit change:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...true#Post322635



Ideas?