Well, it's time to tell the kids something... I've sent this via email to my H for his thoughts on it. He hasn't read it yet. I also wanted to get your opinion. I asked for input a month ago and got great feedback, from that, I formulated my own letter. Please tell me what you think:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Dear kids…<P>I love you and your father very much. He no longer loves me the way he used to and does not want to be married to me anymore. You see, there were times in our marriage that we hurt each other and sometimes the consequences of this pain is to just get away from someone emotionally. So,Daddy has made his choice and he deserves to makes his own decision. I want nothing more than for us to remain a family but sometimes we don’t always get what we want. If this is the only way, then this is the way it will be and we'll be okay. I believe that God will restore and preserve this family, I just don’t know to what extent.<P>Now, both your Daddy and I want you to know how VERY much we both love you and think you three are the most precious gifts in the world God could ever give to us! Mommy and Daddy will still care for each other, and we both love you so much--that will not change. We want you to know that there was nothing you did or could have done because the problems were all ours. We could not come to a solution. <P>Kids, things will remain much like it is now as much as possible. This will be our house. Daddy will sleep upstairs and Mommy downstairs. You guys will have TWO bedrooms – one upstairs and one down here. You will see both Mommy and Daddy as often as you do now. We love you very very much!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Please tell me what you think. I know my H won't like it because he feels D is the only option and is equally my choice as it is his based on the way he perceived I treated him (with high expectations) in the past.<P>Oh, my kids are 4, 5, and 7. Is this too much info for them to process? I wanted to get it all down but maybe now I need to simplify it so as not to confuse. Your thoughts please?! Thanks for taking the time here...<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>[i]The new country is where you are called to go, and the only way to go there is naked and vulnerablei] Henri Nouwen

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OvrCs:<BR>I love you and your father very much. He no longer loves me the way he used to and does not want to be married to me anymore. You see, there were times in our marriage that we hurt each other and sometimes the consequences of this pain is to just get away from someone emotionally. So,Daddy has made his choice and he deserves to makes his own decision. I want nothing more than for us to remain a family but sometimes we don’t always get what we want. If this is the only way, then this is the way it will be and we'll be okay. I believe that God will restore and preserve this family, I just don’t know to what extent.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>My two cents (and I'm in the same position as you, I love my wife, who is leaving me saying she isn't in love with me anymore): this is more than 4,5,7 year olds can process. They're mainly concerned about what's going to happen to them, how they'll be taken care of, and what your feelings are for them. They don't understand adult hurts at all.<P>I've had to pick my words very carefully, in talking to our kids, because I don't want to lie to them, but I also don't want to send the signal that this is "all mom's fault." I'm not interested in sabotaging my childrens' relationship with their mother. When they're 21 and starting to get into adult relationships, I'll sit them down for a talk.<P>My wife and I agreed to tell them that we weren't going to live in the same house anymore, that we couldn't live as married people anymore, and then focused heavily on the fact that we would continue to take care of their needs always- we went through a long list of things that wouldn't change- where they go to school, daycare, who their friends would be, what toys they would have, etc. etc. etc.<P>My son, 3, doesn't get it at all, but is feeling insecure now. Who can blame him?<P>My daughter, 7, asked "are you getting a divorce?" We asked her what that would mean, and she said "that you don't love each other anymore." We told her that we do still love each other (maybe that doesn't help you, but I'm just giving an example), but didn't go into anything about my wife's waning passion for me. Our daughter didn't ask any more. I can tell she's still processing, and that neither of them will really get it until it happens.<P>Good luck- telling the kids has been one of the hardest things we've had to do so far.<P><BR>

Okay, thanks DBT... so you think other than the first paragraph that it's okay? We need to focus on how much we love them? Maybe then if they ask questions about why I could use parts of the first paragraph... or do you think it's too one-sided? I suppose it would be a huge LB to my H if I left it that way. I don't want to come out looking like the saint here because I know I'm not!<P>I just wonder how it's going to go.... God help us all!<P>How long ago did you tell your family? Did the kids cry when you said it? Were you both there? How did you and your W maintain your composure or did you cry as well?<P>Thanks for helping here.<P>------------------<BR>[i]The new country is where you are called to go, and the only way to go there is naked and vulnerablei] Henri Nouwen

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OvrCs:<BR><B>Okay, thanks DBT... so you think other than the first paragraph that it's okay? We need to focus on how much we love them? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, the next two paragraphs seem good. Give them all the specifics of the new arrangement (for them) that you can. I'm basically parroting what my counselor and some other divorced folks I know have said- young kids like yours and mine know they can't get along in the world without their parents, and so need reassurance that they will still be cared for, and that even though their parents' relationship is changing, not everything else in the world is going to change. Hence, school, daycare, soccer team, dance classes- anything you can think of that will stay the same, tell them about it so they have some sense of stability in this crisis.<P>Also, some kids do start thinking it's their fault, but you don't know if they will or not. My strategy was not to even mention that possibility, so as not to put it in their heads. If they do say something like that, or you get a strong impression they're thinking it, tell them in no uncertain terms that it's not their fault, nothing they did caused this, nothing they will do can bring you back together, it's grown-up stuff that they can't possibly understand. You may have to tell them over and over, until they tell you "alright, already, we know it's not our fault!"<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Maybe then if they ask questions about why I could use parts of the first paragraph... or do you think it's too one-sided? I suppose it would be a huge LB to my H if I left it that way. I don't want to come out looking like the saint here because I know I'm not!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, you can't help but be one-sided. If I were to tell the full truth to my kids, it would be a one-sided tale. But that's not the point of this conversation- you're having this conversation with your kids to prepare them for the change, not to explain and defend yourself. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>How long ago did you tell your family? Did the kids cry when you said it? Were you both there? How did you and your W maintain your composure or did you cry as well?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Told them last Saturday; she's moving next Saturday. Both of us were there, and both of us kept a stiff upper lip. I'm not sure how I did- I guess I'm not in shock over this anymore, since my wife and I have been doing this dance for five months now. It'd would have been different if she had packed her bags in March. <P>Our 6 year old daughter cried a little bit, saying she wanted us to all be together, but that was it. She's acting out a bit now, and is quite touchy, so I think it's bubbling under the surface. Our 3 year old was oblivious, but is also showing some signs of insecurity over it.<P>Other advice from the counselor- it is sad. Let them be sad, if that's how they react. Let them cry, if that's what they want to do. <BR>

OvrCs,<P>I agree with dabigtrain. When we talked to our kids, they were 9yo and 12yo, but we also concentrated on the very simple facts: Dad will not be living at this house anymore, we don't know when or if he'll move back, but this in no way changes the fact that both Mom and Dad still love you and will always love you. When you talk to your children, try to think what you thought like when you were in kindergarten or 1st grade. You didn't care if Dad made a decision or Mom, or who was "right" and "wrong". You just wanted to know if you had to move, would you lose your stuff, would you have something to eat and toys, and would Mom and Dad always love you. <P>OvrCs, my children were older than yours are, and we STILL kept it very basic. I like the second and third paragraphs, but paragraph one is too much for a child to understand AND more than they need to know. To this day, my children do not know that their father slept with another woman, because they are CHILDREN (almost teens, but kids nonetheless) and they don't need to know that. He is their father, and to them he will always be their father, no matter what he did or does to me. <P>Just my two cents.<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Hi CJ... thanks for that. I'm trying again. Is this better or still too complicated? Sometimes it helps to get out what you want to say and then pare it down so that it says what only NEEDS to be said. Here it is... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Dear kids…<BR>We want you to know how very much we love you. There are some things in our marriage relationship that have changed. <I>Though, I love your father, he no longer loves me the way he used to and does not want to be married to me anymore. You see, there were times in our marriage that we hurt each other with the way we did things and the things we said to each other. Sometimes the consequences of this are felt by everyone and can also be painful.</I> So, Daddy has made his choice to live in a separate place from me and he has every right to makes his own decision. If this is the only way, then this is the way it will be. I believe that God will never leave us and will continue to bless this family… He brought your Daddy and I together and gave us you three as gifts to this marital union.<P>Now, again, both your Daddy and I want you to know how VERY much we both love you and think you three are the most precious gifts in the world God could ever give to us! Mommy and Daddy will still care for each other, and we both love you so much--that will never ever change. <BR> <BR>Kids, things will remain much like it is now as much as possible. This house is entirely our house. The only difference will be that Daddy will sleep upstairs and Mommy downstairs. You guys will have TWO bedrooms – one upstairs where Daddy is going to paint and one down here – where you’ve been sleeping now. You can go wherever you want to in this house – because it’s yours! <P>We both love you VERY, VERY MUCH and that will not change NOT EVER!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The part in italics... that's the questionable part that I'm thinking maybe I should leave out. They're too young to know or care who did what, right? Thanks!<BR><P>------------------<BR><I>The new country is where you are called to go, and the only way to go there is naked and vulnerable</I> Henri Nouwen

(((OvrCs)))<P>The worst day of my life was telling our kids (11,9,6 girls). As you know, my X wanted out but of course I was the one who had to do the talking.<P>We sat down on the floor in a big circle and I was very careful with words I said stuff like:<P>It has been decided that your mom is moving out.<BR>It has been decided that mom & dad are getting divorced.<P>I know it's real easy to say that YOUR DAD wants a divorce, but that is not what the kids need to hear. They need to hear that this isn't their fault and what is happening to them. That's it.<P>In my case, it didn't take long for all three of them to figure out who WANTED the divorce. I let them discover for themselves, as a matter of fact my X ended up telling them. As I've always said, TAKE THE HIGH ROAD.<P>Wish you all the best.<P>Hugs, Prayers, & Thoughts<BR><P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

Hi Bill...<P>You are right. I will not point the blame to them. I sent the words to my H to see what he thought. He was not happy with it either. I have my perspective and perhaps I'm completely wrong. BUT, I do not need to get the kids involved in trying to figure it out.<P>I'm just sorry that it plays out like this because how are we going to teach them about forgiveness when there is such unforgiveness in our relationship!?<P>I've stated this before that I feel I'm in the penal justice system doing "time" for my "crime" when I'm not exactly sure what my crime is except for the fact that from my H's perspective he states, "You can't say to the person killed that it's their fault for walking in front of a murderer." Ouch.<P>I know that you were in a similar situation with the emotional abuse to your human dignity from your wife... so this may hurt a little. <P>I just can't believe this is me that he's speaking about? I'm not alone in thinking this also... but anyway, this is his reality and his perspective of me! I can't convince him of anything... <P>Oh well... it's going to be a while before I can hold my head high with these accusations. But anyway, I'm not sure if they are false accusations just slanted heavily. My crime is my expectations, AND then getting angry when they weren't met. Is it possible to be like this - accused like this? Yes, so suck it up.<P>I guess with the issue of talking to the kids coming up... all the pain comes up again. He won't get specific with me, says he needs to justify nothing. He believes in his head that whatever he thinks is fact.<P>So be it... where do I go from here? I'm still believing in a faithful God to lead me. <P>Warmly...<BR>Nicole<P>------------------<BR><I>The new country is where you are called to go, and the only way to go there is naked and vulnerable</I> ~ Henri Nouwen<p>[This message has been edited by OvrCs (edited July 30, 2001).]

Nicole,<P>First off, I’m glad that the move went safely.<P>“”””I'm just sorry that it plays out like this because how are we going to teach them about forgiveness when there is such unforgiveness in our relationship!?””””<P>We have to first remember that we can only control ourselves and then put that control into action. Nicole, you know enough of my story to know that it would be real easy for me to “lash” out at my x-wife and I could probably justify any mean action or words that I choose to say. But, I control myself and I’ve chosen not to do the mean things. My girls have already began forming opinions of their mom’s behavior, they come to me to talk about things (they come to me for their emotional needs), I allow them to explore but I WILL NOT CONTRIBUTE TO THEM FORMING A NEGATIVE OPINION. I just won’t. Fact of the matter is in both of our cases we are talking about the other parent of our children and for nothing more than the well-being of the child we HAVE to hope that the other parent will have a good relationship with the child. To do anything that stands in the way of that relationship forming would not be very Christian like.<P>I think that maybe I just danced around your question but what I’m saying is that through my behavior my children can see forgiveness and how people work out problems. Unfortunately, they do not see that in my x’s behavior. So the choice is yours, what image do want your children to see?<P>“”””"You can't say to the person killed that it's their fault for walking in front of a murderer." Ouch.””””<P>What the hack is he saying here? Is he implying that he had no contribution to the end of the marriage?? That’s total BullS*&^. Again relating to my case, I DID CONTRIBUTE TO THE END OF MY MARRIAGE. With an X like mine it’s pretty easy to blame her for everything but stepping back from the situation there are a ton of things that I could of done better or just plain done. <P>So where do you go from here?? I haven't a clue. My suggestion is to work on being the best mom you can and being the best Nicole you can. <P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OvrCs:<BR><B>Oh well... it's going to be a while before I can hold my head high with these accusations. But anyway, I'm not sure if they are false accusations just slanted heavily. My crime is my expectations, AND then getting angry when they weren't met. Is it possible to be like this - accused like this? Yes, so suck it up.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well said. You know I think that I needed to hear that. If you listened to my x talk, I'm probably one of the most dirty rotten people on the face of the earth. Is it true?? NO!!! But, hearing those words from the one that you love sure do go straight to your heart and after a while you may even begin to believe them.<P>Nicole, you are a strong person and there will come a day real soon when you will no longer have to "suck it up" because you will see from where these words come from. They are words born from anger and guilt. Don't let them get to you.<P><P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

Hi Bill...<P>For a person like me whose love language is <I>Words of Encouragement</I> the words that come from my H's mouth, the man I love and committed my life too, it's a killer. Thank you for helping me walk through this... I see you as such a role model for the "Way" to procede... you show such compassion and TRULY the high moral/Christian walk in forgiveness.<P>Your words, <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>They are words born from anger and guilt. Don't let them get to you<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ring so true and I'm encouraged by that. It's going to get really ugly before it gets better. The key is to think that HIS words are not necessarily the REALITY or the TRUTH but they are HIS reality and HIS truth at this time. So, are my shoulders big enough to take it - to give him psychological air in a room where it feels all the oxygen is sucked out? YES, I can do this if I remember what you've said and to NOT take every word out of his mouth as gospel truth! That's been my problem... his accusations I take on and can't live with myself and the picture he paints of me. <P>God help me and God help my children... He tells me, "It's not too late for the kids if you change your ways." My God, I feel as if his abandonment is the precursor to what my kids will do once they're old enough to know the REAL me. Such lies... and it invokes such fear in me. But, I will face it, work through it and learn to love and give gratuitously in spite of the accusations... I will do this by God's Grace and by seeking HIM!<P>Anyway, time for a smile... where's your daily joke?<BR><P>------------------<BR><I>The new country is where you are called to go, and the only way to go there is naked and vulnerable</I> ~ Henri Nouwen

Presumming that you haven't talked with your children yet. Let me share with you about telling ours.<P>We called the girls upstairs, sat down in a circle and told them we would be getting a divorce.<P>11yo immediatly began crying<BR>9yo was a little confused but caught on quickly<BR>6yo sat there pretty much unaffected<P>We began consoling them and answering their questions. It wasn't until we specically told the 6yo that mom & dad wouldn't be living in the same house that it really sunk in to her. I guess, I share this because of your children's ages. We got bulleted with question mostly about visitation, school, pets, and belongings. Just be prepared for a lot of hugging, crying, and questions. Some of their questions may seem rediculous at a time like this but they wouldn't ask it if it wasn't a concern.<P>Best of luck. <P>PS. Put a joke in the Monday funnies for ya<P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>God help me and God help my children... He tells me, "It's not too late for the kids if you change your ways." My God, I feel as if his abandonment is the precursor to what my kids will do once they're old enough to know the REAL me. Such lies... and it invokes such fear in me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hi Nicole ~<P>Sorry, I'll agree with Bill, your H is completely putting responsiblity for the end of your marriage on you - and that's complete BS. His truths don't have to be your truths, and so exactly WHY are you allowing him to place all the burden on you? I'm sure you screwed up in the past - Lord knows that I did. But in NO WAY was my H the innocent martyred victim. He contributed to the environment in which my reactions to his behavior occured.<P>HE made the decision to leave...you didn't.<P>As for the REAL you...Nicole, your children already know the REAL you. They will see you working very hard at changing and standing by your obligations and commitments. Just keep working on you...your children are not stupid, and they'll form their own independent opinions.<P>Maybe others would disagree, but I frankly told my children that their dad didn't love me, and that he didnt want to be with me anymore. I told them that I still loved their dad, and that I would do whatever I could to keep our family together...but that I couldn't do it by myself, and I couldn't control their dad. There were many days that we all just cried and hugged.<P>I didn't badmouth their dad - I made sure they knew that it wasn't their fault, and that we both loved them. I facilitated every bit of contact that I could btwn them and their father. But I also didn't pretend or avoid telling them the truth. I didn't drag them through the nitty gritty details - but at their age (9 and 7) I felt that they deserved to know why their lives were being ripped apart.<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BrambleRose:<BR><B>Sorry, I'll agree with Bill, .......<P><BR>Maybe others would disagree, but I frankly told my children that their dad didn't love me, and that he didnt want to be with me anymore. I told them that I still loved their dad, and that I would do whatever I could to keep our family together...but that I couldn't do it by myself, and I couldn't control their dad. There were many days that we all just cried and hugged.<P>I felt that they deserved to know why their lives were being ripped apart.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>First off, BrambleRose, don't be sorry that you agree with me .<P>Since, WE first told the girls, I too have had that conversation with them. You are totally correct in that the "deserve" to know why their lives are being ripped apart. I just don't think that it needs to be necessarily shared with them at the moment of dropping the bomb on them.<P>I believe that at the time of telling them, they need to see that mommy and daddy are OK. They need plenty of reassurance that mommy and daddy love them. <P>As time goes on, they will ask questions and I've always said that I won't lie to my girls so I've answered their questions openly and honestly.<P><P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

Hi guys...<P>Thanks... I get the idea. I will keep it to bullet points, will not bad mouth their dad, will not make it seem all his fault as I don't believe that. But, this is his decision to break up the family rather than work on it. So, that's that. I just pray for peace. It's not going to be easy on them at all... they've been asking all kinds of relationship questions lately - "Did you and Dad used to date like those people?" Those people were walking hand in hand kissing and hugging. Stuff like that...<P>Oh well. My H doesn't want to be the "bad" guy at all... I'm not pointing fingers just stating facts of my perception of what decisions are being made now.<P>Life WILL go on...<P>------------------<BR><I>The new country is where you are called to go, and the only way to go there is naked and vulnerable</I> ~ Henri Nouwen