My story contains bits ( and some huge chunks) of almost every post I have read here in the last few months. I have read all the information from the site, Dobson's book and others and been through the pages and pages of this forum to the point of addiction. If it were not for the precious advice of some dedicated individuals on this forum, I would have gone nuts by now and would be in a specialized institution under heavy sedation. And reading other's stories and their experience has been both depressing and life saving. So thank you all of you for writing here. Although it has been difficult for you, you have helped me greatly get through the month since I started coming here.<BR>Two years ago my H announced out of the blue that there was another woman, that she wanted to be with him and him with her. It was in October and I can precisely remember the smell of autumn in the air even though we are now in August. I never saw it coming. To make a long story short, he never left, said his good byes to OW a number of times and ended up staying at home while continuing phone contact with her and this has continued to this day. I did a sort of intuitive plan A for month with a lot of LBs in between until I finally found this site. I then became familiar with the Harley principles and have plan Aing since. No more LBs or only minor and brief and if it were not for the OW still being in the picture, you would never know anything was wrong. <BR>After two years of continued contact, and the usual lies, I finally decided that this having the cake and eating it too was getting to me and starting to make a dent in my feelings for him, so I asked him to move out so that we could both figure out what we wanted to do with our lives. He moved out yesterday while I was at work (we had agreed on this). Took almost nothing with him and left me a note that he would be where he moved to until Friday. No mention of where he goes after that but I guess it is none of my business. I have not heard from him since but I had asked to refrain from contacting me as I felt that would make hard for both of us.<BR>While he was still here, he said repeatedly that he loves me ( ...but is in love with her...), that he is where he wants to be (he cannot leave me because he has to do his duty!) and recently said he wants to grow old with me. BUT he will not give up his weekly phone calls and wants to keep that little bit of her. <BR>My questions to you all are:<BR>1/ plan A helped me see what I should take responsibility for and what is his. What happens in Plan B? Do I talk to him, email him or cross him out of my life? and until when?<BR>2/ How does one survive the pain of not having him next to me when I wake up? <BR>3/ What do I tell myself to keep from giving up altogether and going home? Home is in another country. I have no real friends here and rely on time sensitive phone calls for support.<BR>If you can find the time to help me get through tonight and tommorrow, I might find the strength to continue. <BR>

Never give up.... <P>I know how hard this is BTDT. This is the hardest thing you will ever go thru, but there is light at the end of that tunnel, I promise and life can and will be good again. <P>You have done what you had to for your own sanity it sounds to me like you went to the wall to save your marriage and he did not want it. Sometimes I think it is better to kick them out at the begining and get it over with, because 99% of the time that other person turns out not to be that great and they realize they have screwed up. By lettign him stay as long as you did and still talk to her he was able to keep the fantasy alive. Once he finds out all the little things that drive us nuts about living with someone else he will have second thoughts. <P>In the mean time what you do is start building a life you want, do some of the things you have always wanted to do but never have, take up skydiving, get a piliots lic. Learn to basket weave, whatever, but do what it is you want to do for you. This is your life now you owe him nothing more so get out and start it. <P>This really is the First day in the rest of your life. <P>Here is a link to something I wrote 2 years ago when my X left I have updated it a few times since, I hope by reading it you will realize you are not alone, your emotions are normal and you can survive.<BR> <A HREF="http://www.inspiredawakenings.com/at_first_you_cry.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.inspiredawakenings.com/at_first_you_cry.htm</A> <p>[This message has been edited by Tater_tot (edited July 31, 2001).]

Mapleleaf,<BR>I felt like I was reading my own story, with the exception of my husband left on his own. I am so sorry you are here. There are no easy answers. Just pray, pray, pray for strength. It seems that you have read and know what to do, but even with all of that, things do not go as we would like them to. I wish I could be of more help. Sometimes the worst darkness comes just before the light. Hang in there and keep reading and posting.!!<P>Tina

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I made it through the night and after about 3 hours of sleep I am down, scared and without much hope for us. <P>Tater tot, I read what you wrote and it described so exactly what we are certainly all going through. You are right about the why but I have stopped asking myself that. The only answer I could find is "because". He says "things just happen". I do have things I have always wanted to do but right now I have no taste for them. I just want to get into a ball and disappear. And I want all this pain to end for both of us. I am well aware that he is suffering too and knowing that does not help me. It only makes me see all that wasted love. I know I will get over this someday. I have beaten worst odds before but right now is when I am dying inside and I look around the house and see unfinished projects and all the renovations we have started together and how much fun we were having. But all this was going on while he continued lying and having regular contact with her. So what does it all amount to? What a mess.<P>Redhead, thank you for your words of encouragement. I needed that gentle stroking and I am grateful that you took the time to give it to me. This is what I understand this forum to be for and I wish I could do the same for others. Right now I would not be of much help as I wallow in self pity. Got to snap out of it.<BR>I am phoning SH on Friday and I hope I will find something to work on and the way to work on it so I can overcome my present state of mind. I love my husband, have since I laid eyes on him 12 years ago ( been married 11) and I know he loves me no matter what he says to justify this affair. He is very confused and the day before his leaving we had one of the best conversations we have ever had. He said, "I don't know what's got into me; we should be able to finish the kitchen ( we have been doing it over completely since last August) and grow old together". Maybe he is thinking about that right now but I don't have much hope since he has said that kind of thing so many times before. I call what I am going though emotionally battered spouse syndrome. I always "came back" emotionally after he said something nice to me even though the day before he hurt me tremendously. That's why I asked him to leave. <P>Thank you again. <P>

Help!<P>H moved out Monday at my request after 2 years of hell where he stayed home and pretended the A was over when he was actually calling OW and seeing her from time to time. She lives in another city. He did not call that an A. <P>Anyway the A had gone on for 4 years before that and we even moved to her city for a year but moved back here a few month before D day. Finally last week I figured that if he could not figure out what he wanted to do in 6 years it was never going to happen no matter how much I plan Aed, so I asked him to go and decide which side of the fence he wanted to be. I was ready for the worst and was starting to think about making plans to go back to my country. I had also made plans to go somewhere by myself at the end of August. We both had some vacation time coming up and had originally planned to continue our renovations.<P>I hardly slept last night. After my plea for help yesterday, and the comforting answers I got, I slowly calmed down this morning. This morning H called me just before I left for work. He had just gotten to work himself and wanted to talk to me tonight. He said something about us and if there was still a us etc. <BR>I did not originally want to as I consider us to be in plan B and also because the thought of having me him in front of me did not appeal to me at all after my sleepless night. I was feeling resentful and altogether put off.<BR>He insisted and I finally agreed.<P>Now I don't know what to do. I don't want to sulk but I don't want him to think that after 3 days we can start again as if everything was just fine. <P>Please help me think through this. I want to appear strong even though I am crumbling inside. I am also not ready for him now. <P>Please, please, advise.<P> <BR>

((((((((((((((((mapleleaf))))))))))))))))))<P>You sure sound like you don't know what to do!!! I think maybe you should reconsider talking to him until you DO!<P>Call him and tell him that if you like, or make an excuse. I think unless you are on an even keel, he has the upper hand and you must fight for yourself here. You have to decide what's best for YOU. If that means continuing with the marriage, fine. But you have to set some boundaries. SIX years??? My friend has been having a relationship with a married man for that long, too, and believe me, it's not only over the phone. Be VERY careful here. (Sorry)<P>Nina

Set your boundries.. <P>I know it is hard but for this to ever work you have to let him know up front that it has to be over with the OW. He has to break all contact and agree to work on the marriage.<BR>If not you are going to be still going thru this hell next year. As hard as living without him is living with the way things were cannot be that great. <P>I know the feelings I was marriead for 25 years and my X started having an affair. I tried for a year to work it out with her. For me it was a year of hell her being depressed most of the time when she did try and not see the OM, me trying every plan A attack in the book. Finally I got to a point I could not take it any longer and I walked out of the house. She to this day claims she was not having an affair but yet she was calling him all the time and going to visit him every chance she got, I would travel and call home and she not be there at 1 am. I was not happy she was not happy our lives were just in torment all the time. <BR>Anyway to make a long story shorter, she filed for divorce, I begged her not to and to wait a year told her to go live with the OM and try it first. But she had to go ahead with it, so we divorced she moved in with him, he turned out to be an abuser and nut. Now 2 1/2 years later she wanted to come home. But I do not want her any longer. I have found a new love and am happier than I have ever been in my life. <P>Why am I writting all this? Because sometimes we stay in a bad situation no matter how unhappy we are because we fear the unknown. But yet if we let go of the things that are making us unhappy and wade into the unknown we mght find happiness like we have never known. I held on to my wife for too long I was willing to let her stay with a OM while I waited it out. But once I set her free and me free my life became so much better. <P>I can't imagine that you can be that happy knowing your H is spending time with a OW, if that is his choice then set yourself free and wade into the unknown, do not sit there in fear hanging on to unhappiness because it is something you know. <P>In other words if he cannot commit to you and work to make you happy then why spend the rest of your life in misery hopeing it will get better. Set your boundries and do not back down from them, 6 years is long enough to torture yourself. <P>You know what the definition of insanity is?<P>It is doing the same thing over and over and expecting differing results. Time to change the pattern and demand he change. <P>Good luck and big HUGS

Yes, 6 years is more than enough. I wish I had known about MB before; it would have shortened this agony. Although it may not have changed him, it would certainly have helped me.<BR>You are right about fear of the unknown. In my case it meant losing the love of my life, my place of residence, my job and my way of life. The latter would not be a great loss in the end, I don't think. I am still scared of what awaits me but I can't imagine that I would be any lonelier anywhere than I have been right beside him these last 2 years. I don't want to stay here because I have noone here. I long for my friends in Europe, I long for real love and for someone who would value the promise of marriage. I have difficulty believing such a person exists for me. So now I have to build a life where I will not expect those things. <P>There is a french song that says that "we desire one another, we rip one another apart, we long for one another, we love one another, but in the end we are all alone in the world". It sounds better in french because it rhymes but I am sure you see what is meant.<P>H will be here in a few moments. I don't know what he wants to say. I am in a bad frame of mind. To H*** with plan A and LBs. I don't give a hoot.<P>

Mapleleaf,<P>From your username, I take it you are Canadian, eh?<P>I would like to go back to your questions in your original post.<BR>1. I am in plan A, but things have not changed too much, so I will be switching to B shortly. I only plan to talk to her if I have to or let her initiate the contact.<BR>2. Going to bed or waking up in the morning are the hardest things to get used to. I either hug a big pillow or have my dog jump up the bed and give her a big hug.<BR>3. I am from a different country, too. Going home or moving anywhere I don't think would help. At least not now. Your thoughts will be with you, no matter where you are in the world. You have to sort everything out first, make sure you are making the right decision and then move. You can only do this with a cool head.<P>About what to do next, I think Tater_tot put it the best way:<P>"Why am I writting all this? Because sometimes we stay in a bad situation no matter how unhappy we are because we fear the unknown. But yet if we let go of the things that are making us unhappy and wade into the unknown we mght find happiness like we have never known. I held on to my wife for too long I was willing to let her stay with a OM while I waited it out. But once I set her free and me free my life became so much better."<P>I wish you all the best.<BR>Tacsi

Tacsi,<BR>No I am not canadian, I live in Canada. I never took up citizenship. Some could say there was a sign there but it was just laziness on my part and the fact that I don't care if I vote. <P>Anyway, H came and I blew it big time.<P>As you can imagine it was extremely awkward at first for both. In a nutshell he said he came because he wanted to know if I had thrown him out or if I wanted him to go away for a while and figure things out. Why was he asking since we had talked about it very calmly before he left and there was no question what the reason was? <P>Of course he did not come out and say that outright, I had to ask him why he had come, what he wanted to know or say etc. I was calm for the longest time and explained again why we could not go on like this, that as long as OW was in the picture we could not have a trusting , loving, deep relationship and so on. I reiterated my boundaries. He again told me that he had nothing more to offer (than the other times we discussed this)which means that he is not ready to chose between her and me. That he does not expect happiness in life (?) and that some days he thinks he should be with me doing all the things we do together and some days he thinks he should be where his heart leads him. I again told him that if he chose to work on our marriage I would be there and he could come back. Actually, in another discussion another day, I had hinted that I may start looking into going back to Europe. So he asked me what my plans were and I replied that it did not matter where I was, that it was irrelevant. That he should work on things no matter where I was. Plan A was not exactly at work at this point.<P>In the end I got so frustrated and fed up with the same old refrain that I asked him to leave. My heart was pounding and I could hardly breath I was so upset. The old pain came back and overwhelmed me totally. He went up to get stuff in his office and got ready to leave. This is where I lost it. I told him all sorts of things and raised my voice. I told him that I was still his wife, that this was still his house and that I deserved to know what was going to happen with the practical aspects of running the household. Money is not an issue but I wanted to know what to do. I don't honestly think that is what I wanted to know but this is what I said.<P>So basically in summary: <BR>1/ Big (huge) LBs<BR>2/ Showed him my pain instead of the face of perfect composure, grace and independent confidence.<BR>3/ blackmailed him with leaving<BR>4/ Accused him of coming to allevaite his guilt and continue hurting me. Ouch. Enormous LB!!!<BR>5/ OW is on vacation. Did he need to talk because he has no one to talk to and he is lonely?<BR>6/ We ended up almost in tears and hugging each other. And he left after that.<P>How's that for Plan B?<P>All right, blast me but tell me, what do I do next? I feel like resigning from my job and going back to my mom's amniotic liquid. Problem is she is 86, in Europe, does not know about any of this and thinks we have an amazing marriage. Her words two weeks ago.<P>I don't know what I want you to tell me or rather I want you to tell me that this hell is going to end soon and that we are going to be happy ever after. Fat chance.

Well I am not going to blast you at all.<P>You may have made a few LBs but you were honest and let him know how you felt, and if that is an LB to hell with it. There are only so many games you can play so many strategies you can sit around and devise to convince someone to come home. Sometimes the best thing is to be honest let your emotions out and then set them free. Most of the time once they are out there with the OP they find it isn't that great anyway and change their mind. <P>What you need is a pat on the back and big HUG>.. And no I can't tell you it will be happily ever after I can tell you tho that you will be better off with some closure, one way or the other. <BR>

Mapleleaf,<P>I really don't have a lot to offer as far as advice. But I do think you did the right thing asking him to leave. It sounds like he wants to have his cake and eat it too. My STBXH also said he did not know what he wanted, he could not make any decisions, and he did not expect to ever be happy. But their behavior begs to differ. Their actions are all about them and what they want to do. He will not give up the OW because he just DOES NOT WANT TO. And I know how much that hurts. And getting more in control of your own life will increase both your respect for yourself, and also increase his respect for you too I think.<P>I do think that there is still a chance for your marriage though if that is still what you want. He is still initiating contact with you - so you still have a connection. I did not give up on my marriage until my H quit having contact with me or my children.<P>So my meager advice is to do what you need to do for yourself right now. Whether it is having contact or not. I finally decided that it was better for me not to have contact. Every time I did see him, I got upset and did not act with grace and composure. It was really hard not to call in the beginning though. It was like I was addicted to him. And after 22 yrs of marriage, I guess I probably was to a degree. <P>Just take it one day at a time. <P>------------------<BR>Character is determined by what you do when no one is watching.

{{{{mapleleaf}}}}<P>You're only human. The first time I started plan B, I gave my H a plan B letter and then totally blew it with LB'ing. I felt horrible about myself, but started over again the next day. After a month, my H came home for the 1st time, still in contact with the OW, left again for two months, and has now ended the relationship with the OW, though I think they still have occasional phone contact (the EA has been going on and off for several years, but the PA started last December. I also got the "I love you and want to grow old with you" line). I am in the house, he is living several hours away, but we're talking now.<P>In other words, forgive yourself, be gentle with yourself, you're going through a very difficult time, but you will get through it. Plan B will help remove you from the constant stress and help give you closure if the relationship does end. On the other hand, plan B gives your H a chance to see what life will really be like without you, and he may not like what he sees.

Mapleleaf,<P>You are going through some pretty tough times. I wish I could give you a big hug. But I can't. So here is a ((((((cyber hug)))))).<BR>I am going through a similar phase. Here is my story in a nutshell. My wife and I met in Europe seven years ago. We fell in love. She came back to the States and I followed a few mionths later. We got married in November of 1994. Everything was fine. So I thought. Seven weeks ago to the day she told me she wasn't happy with our relationship and moved out. Three weeks later she started seeing my best friend. The worst part about it is that I work with him. Every time i look at him, I think of her. It is really though. We filed for divorce last week. In the mean time every time I had a chance to talk to her, I asked her to give me a chance to reconcile. Sometimes the discussions got heated and I did a lot of love busting. I just could not control myself in those situations. Every time she was headed for the door, I broke down and started pleading with her to come back. I said some thing I should have not said, which fueled her fire even more. Now we bearly talk anymore. I think I blew all my chances with plan A, so I am moving to plan B. Today was the first day on B. I had the urge to just call her to hear her voice on the phone, but I resisted. Instead I went out and had a cigarette (bad habit I just picked up. I hope it will be only temporary). Tonight when I felt like talking to her again, I sat down and I wrote her a letter instead. I will probably never show it to her, but at least I calmed down and got my ducks in line. Hopefully, I will have the strenght to stay away from her tomorrow, too. Hopefully, the storm will calm down with time and she will come out of the fog if I am not doing anymore LBs. This is what I have to concentrate for the future. I am also going to re-read the emotional needs parts on this site until I have it memorized. This is what I will have to concentrate in the future. No more LBs, just ENs. Hopefully, that will rock my boat.<BR>I was also thinking about moving somewhere else in the county or up to Canada or back home to Europe. But I feel if I do that, I would shut down all my chances of ever getting back together with my wife. So I am going to stick around for awhile, to see where things are headed. I will take everything one day at the time and will see what tomorrow brings. I am not ready to give up yet.<BR>Although, I am not a counselor, so you shouldn't take my advice for granted, what I would suggest is that you do the same. Concentrate on the ENs when you are around him and avoid LBs at any cost! If you feel like you can't handle it, just walk away for a few minutes. Go to the washroom, wash your face with cold water, take a few deep breaths, look in the mirror and smile. Then go out and continue the converstion. This is the best advice a regular Joe like me could give you.<BR>Good luck and keep us posted about your progress. Also, don't forget, we are here to help you through this. <P>Cheers <BR>Tacsi<P>PS. Smile. You are strong. You can do this. C'est la vie, mon amie. Au revoir. <p>[This message has been edited by Tacsi (edited August 02, 2001).]

New development. <BR>I broke down and goofed on plan B. When H left after our conversation yesterday and after I vented here, I realised how much pain he was in also. I told myself that we still have each other and that we can still help each other. So I drove up ( one hour) to where he is staying, a cottage and told him that I don't want to hurt him, that I want him to have space to figure things out, that it is not punishment or revenge. That I want him to be free to think and so son. I told him about this site and how other people suffer and how they help each other. He listened patiently, we talked for a long time and he thanked me for coming. He wanted me to stay as it was getting very late, but I wanted to go home.<BR>So much for sticking to plan B no matter what. I am a wimp and I don't think I will be able to do this for very long. I know I am going to be in pain for a very long time and that scares me. <BR>Thank you all for your kind words. It helps a lot to know that you are out there ready to listen even though you are suffering too. How did we ever get here?

The work day is about to start and I feel like running away. I am sure you all know the feeling. This post is just a way for me to drum up the strength to get through the day. If I feel like someone is listening I wont feel so alone. I would give anything to get out of self pity mode.<P>OK, I can do this; there is life beyong affairs; Some people have it much worse than me and are they complaining and whining? no. They are out there helping instead of looking at their navel.<P>Time to break free of this mood. Time to take on the world. Time to see what it has to offer and what I have to offer it.<P>As someone said in another post: It's a win/win situation. Either he choses to leave for good and I least I will know, or he choses to come home and we can work on this marriage. In the meantime I am supposed to grow. Right? <P>

Good Mornig Mapleleaf, <P>You sound better this morning! Way to go! You will see, as time passes by, you will feel stronger, better about yourself and the choices you are making. Posting here helped me a lot, too. I felt like I needed to vent every so often. Sharing our experiences with other people helps us cope with the pain and makes us stronger individuals. <P>I liked what you said in your post:<BR>"Some people have it much worse than me and are they complaining and whining? no. They are out there helping instead of looking at their navel."<BR>That is so true. To see this is a good sign. You are coming out, you are not at the bottom anymore. It is a long road, but you will make it. The light on the end will shine brighter every day. It might not seem like it now, but it will. So hang in there, give yourself a pat on the back and look ahead. Whatever happened in the past is irreversible, you can't change that. Live for the future not the past.<BR>Have a good day and don't forget, we are here if you need us.<P>Cheers,<BR>Tacsi

Tacsi, Thank you. You have made my day. Are you french? Si oui, merci.

Je sui Hongrois. I hope I spelled it right. Those two years of French from high school were long time ago. <P>

I have not posted in a while because so much and so little was happening. This is more or less what happened since my last post whan my H left the house as agreed to "go and figure things out". This was two weeks ago. If you remember, before that he was at home and refused to stop having contact (by phone only apparently) with OW and we were starting to settle down into a convenient cake and eat it too situation. So after much hesitation and discussion I asked him to leave. <BR>He is now in an appartment and she is still in another city.<BR>He came over a couple of times the first week. It was very emotional and I could tell he was lonely. He told me she was on vacation and this probably was the reason why he was so lonely and needed me. Our discussions always started out well but also always ended by hurting me. How many times can you bear to hear you are not the one he loves and how many times can you bear to hear that you are to blame for the whole mess in one way or another. Mainly, I am responsible for the mess because I don't want to let him talk to her if we are to continue to live together. It is such a small thing compared to the sacrifice he is making by "giving her up". <P>So I could not stand to be destroyed for days yet another time and I decided to go to plan B last wednesday. SH agreed when I talked to him on Friday. He also gave a lot of helpful advice. Well, any of you who have gone to plan B while still hopelessly in love with your spouse, will understand what I have been going through. I did OK Wednesday and Thursday but it was all I could do not to call or email. Friday Morning H e mailed to ask he "I wanted to see him this week-end, please".<BR>I replied according to Plan B and SH that "it hurts too much to be with him knowing that he is still in contact with OW" and that I was going away for the week end, which I did.<P>I came back yesterday late afternoon. He had left a note that he had worked on the kitchen renovation. I realised that he had decided to do the quick version (don't ask) and wondered what that meant. It bothered me so much that I broke down and went over to his place to ask him if he had made some decision about our future that I should know about. I know, DUMB.<P>Even DUMBER, I ended up LBing all over the place and we started talking divorce. Basically he said that he had been talking to her everyday since she got back from vacation, that he was in love with her, that he was going to have a PA with her, that if I had agreed to let him talk to her on the phone and had not made him leave this would not have happened and that he was not going to work on our marriage because he did not want it anymore etc, etc. We talked for four hours going back and forth. He admitted that he was scared that this may not work out for him, that he may end up alone and that if I had understood what he had given up for me when he stopped seeing her ( but never calling her) he could have been satisfied with the companionship if not love in our marriage. No mention of whether that would satisfy me of course.<P>So now I am a total wreck. I have not slept yet. I have not eaten since this morning. I have a knot in my stomach that borders on an ulcer and I don't know what to do. He has agreed to talk to SH but only because it will help me. He does not see the point in a marriage counselor ( or talking to anyone else for that matter) since there is no marriage anymore. He says I need to let him go and let him come to me. I agree but I don't know if I can wait ten years as he suggested.<P>HELP!<BR>