Ramblings for people to think about or ignore:<P>I realized again yesterday, as my wife and I discussed how to tell some married couples we know about our split, that my wife's support network is mostly divorced women. Her mother- twice. Her sister- three times, plus some live-ins who have gotten the heave-ho after a few years (and she's doing it again!). Her best female friend- divorced, living with a man she's supposedly going to marry in Sept, but I keep hearing that it's "off and on." Another had a brief marriage in her early 20's, and has been single and serially monogamous since. Several other friends are divorced as well. And then there's the guy I think she has an EA with- three kids by two different women; I don't actually know if he married them, or if they were live-ins, but he's essentially a twice-divorced man as well.<P>She has a close friend from high school who has been married 18 years- but I don't think my wife has ever gone to that friend to ask about how she has kept the marriage together. Other married couples we know- well, it's interesting that we're just now starting to tell them that we're having problems and are splitting up, isn't it? They've been held at arm's length.<P>Her mother and her sister actually started out telling her she was making a mistake, but her divorced friends are full of compassion; they know what she's going through, they'll be there to help her. <P>My frame of reference for marriage? My parents together for 38 years, until my dad died. Plus, I know (and knew at the time) that they almost fell apart at about the 20 year mark, and slowly and painfully pulled it back together. My closest friends, all happily married (three of us married our wives in rapid succession the same year, 1993, in the "summer of love"). My older brother is divorced, but now re-married and I think for good; my younger brother has been with the same woman for 15 years, 10 of them married.<P>Don't underestimate the power of your support network to shape your thinking, folks. <P><p>[This message has been edited by dabigtrain (edited August 03, 2001).]

Hey,<P>My wife of 18 years, and separated now, has that same<BR>support network. All her friends are either divorced,<BR>separated, were in troubled relationships, and all have<BR>told her that she must do whatever she can to make <BR>herself happy. Amazing, isnt it. She does not talk<BR>to many people who are happily married. I look to my<BR>parents who have been married almost 50 yeas, and to my<BR>grandparents, who thankfully are still alive and well and<BR>into their 90's who have been married 72 years. <P>My wife doesn't have that shining examples, she just<BR>says that people now adays have choices.<P>I just wish one of her friends would stand up and say<BR>what they mean instead of just saying things to make<BR>her feel like what is happening is a normal part of<BR>everyday life. <P>I just feel like I am out here alone, trying to prevent<BR>the worse from happening.<P>

DBT-we meet again. Here's my situation. Nobody on my side of the family has gone near divorce, and I never thought of it as an option until S brought it up. On her side, her parents have been together for some time, but interestingly her mother left here dad for a few months around age 40 (S is 39). She has one good friend who is going through ugly D who I know my W sought out. Most of our neighbors (she is in the house) are standard family units. <P>I know her parents tried to talk her out of separation, which I think only pushed her farther on the other direction, but i got a nice e-mail from them a few days ago-they clearly want us to reconcile. Her relationship with them is very strained, estranged for last year but now reconnecting. My family is squarely in my corner, although they push the 'get a lawyer, take her on' approach which I do not wish to pursue-at least not now.<P>My biggest worry is S's therapist. S listens to her more than anyone, and I know she recommended the separation, and when S was wavering, she pushed it again. But, S said to me the day i moved out 'i am not her, and i will make up my own mind'. My therapist is trying to help me cope, and is preparing me for the worst i think, but he sees at least a glimmer of hope. he met w/ S early on, and thinks some of her complaints are fairly ridiculous (sp).<P>Anyway, thanks DBT for this post-will be interesting to see what else you get.<P>You make excellent point on support nets.<P>

ANB, we're going to have to stop this, or people will think we're one person posting under two names.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ANB3:<BR>I never thought of [divorce] as an option until S brought it up. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Same here.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I know her parents tried to talk her out of separation, which I think only pushed her farther on the other direction, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm sure that did so for my wife. She loves her mother and sister, but I don't think she has a lot of respect for their relationship choices. I always thought that meant she would value marriage more, but the exact opposite has happened- they're "not supportive," so they must be wrong.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>My family is squarely in my corner, although they push the 'get a lawyer, take her on' approach which I do not wish to pursue-at least not now.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Again, same here. "Don't make it so easy on her." They don't realize that if I got angry, cold, and bitter, it would make it so much easier for my wife to push me aside. She's even subtly hinted that it's not good for me to keep my anger inside- it's got to come out some time, she's said.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>My therapist is trying to help me cope, and is preparing me for the worst i think, but he sees at least a glimmer of hope. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The marriage counselor we're seeing says the she sees a great deal of potential for us, if my wife can just get through this somehow- but also tells me "you can hope for that, but don't let that be the only hope you have." Sound advice, I'd say.<P>Take care, and thanks for reading and responding.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ken1113:<BR>I just wish one of her friends would stand up and say<BR>what they mean instead of just saying things to make<BR>her feel like what is happening is a normal part of<BR>everyday life. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I've thought that as well, but in my wife's present state of mind, I think any such comment would be discounted. "They don't really understand." "Why can't they be more supportive?"<P>But on one level, you're right. A few years ago, my sister-in-law's sister told her husband that she wanted a divorce, that he wasn't romantic enough. Her whole family told her she was nuts to leave over that- that's the sort of thing you stay and work on. They're still married today.<BR>

Well here's an interesting thing for you. I'm the BS. My biggest support person is a divorced WS with three kids. She has been very good for me in a lot of ways, but I know she thinks she sees my H's side of things according to her own experience. <P>She is still having an A with the same married man, has done for six years, and presumably his wife doesn't know. I knew all of their story before I told her about my situation. Well, she felt really awful when I told her, she said I must hate her, all sorts of stuff.<P>But it gave me a lot of insight on how the WS talks to the OW. Acording to him, the wife is a real B****, they have never been happy, she is manipulative, she doesn't care about him, etc ad nauseum. Yeah, we knew it all along, didn't we. My H called this type of talk to the OW "pillow talk" and that phrase still makes me see red.<P>But, I don't hate this woman at all. She has been my closest friend here in this new country, and since he left she ha consistently boosted me EVERY day, with phone calls, emails and forcing me to get out into the world. We meet when she has her kids and do something together.<P>According to her, she hasn't talked to my H about anything (they have contact through a theatre group which I USED to be a part of) and he feels awkward with her...he knows she is my support person, so he backs off. And maybe her situation is unsettling for him now. He did phone her and thanked her for being ther for me and said sarcastically "Yeah, men don't need anyone to talk to." I think he meant he would like to talk to someone, but...<P>So as far as HIS support network goes, I wouldn't have a clue. I haven't asked and he hasn't said. He never tells me what he does. It's the "space thing". And yet, he asks me what I'm doing, who I've seen etc.<P>Anyway that's the story!<P>