Hi all, wished I was doing better but I am not. Been separated for going on three months. Wife hasnt said much, just has been asking me to attend parent teacher meetings, and such. Wont talk about us any. After first month she said she loved me, now when asked she says I dont want to talk about it. She wears her wedding band, but sold the diamond. I dont know if she wears it all the time. Maybe its for show, I dont know. I wished she would just talk to me about something. I feel like we are floundering. No affairs here, but what are some of the signs of affairs? She looks tired and everytime I let her know I want to help she ignores me? Are some people just content to be miserable? I dont want to push and I havent, but after three months shouldnt we be talking about something other than the kids? I guess the unknown has got me? Ugggggh

People around here say affairs are #1 hidden cause. <P>Even in the absence of physicality, there is likely an opposite-sex <B>E</B>motional <B>A</B>ttachment.<P>You might try having a <I>meta</I>-discussion. Talk about <I>why</I> she doesn't want to talk. Then work on whatever <I>that</I> problem is. Or use a <I>strategem</I> to get you both in front of a counselor, like how to deal with your breakup's effect on your <I>kids</I>. <p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited August 06, 2001).]

Sis,<BR>I think you are right. I just sent and email and asked if she would be willing to discuss those things. If the past is any indicator, I believe she will be adamant about not wanting to talk about it at ALL. She gets mean about it. Maybe she likes to see me squirm? After I dropped the kids off yesterday, my daughter said "Daddy, see you when you both get back together". My kids so want us to get back together, but my wife is convinced this is best for our family. I didnt meet alll of her needs and she didnt meet mine. But burying her head is all she seems to want to do. I actually worked out the separation agreement with her DAD! She didnt "feel" up to it. Maybe now she knows how I felt over the last three months. I wanted to die, but she always said "You have to try. It is important that you talk to me and get moving". Funny, she knew she was leaving then. I am confused to say the least, but I really am doing OK. Again, its the not knowing that kills me! Thanks SIS

Hi RobC,<P>My H is the same way. But we've only been apart for four and a bit weeks. If it's killing me NOW, what am I going to be like in three months? <P>After the first week of separation he told me he wanted a divorce at counselling. I truly believe the counsellor led him into that statement. But when he finally spoke to his mum, (after three weeks and only because my SON let the cat out of the bag)she said it was a very strained conversation, and that he said he doesn't know what he wants.<P>After two weeks he emailed me that we have to talk about the kids' future. He then phoned to see if I got it. Now I don't just want to talk about the kids' future, us too, but I asked him when. Suddenly it was er, um, I'm busy this week, let's try next week. Next week came and went, and he hasn't brought it up since.<P>One of our friends approached him and asked what happened...he just walked away. Her words to me were "He just wants to cry all the time, you can see it. It is too painful for him to talk about."<P>That one statement leads me to think THAT is why he resists talking about it. He hates to show emotions, especially the deep ones. Not that he wasn't caring, he most definetly was until the fog hit. But maybe that's why your wife won't talk...it's painful. In our own state of despair, it's easy to forget that the WS might just be suffering too. That is why we have to Plan A as much as we can, so they know there is a safe place at home. And maybe, when the fog has lifted, that is where they'll choose to be.<P>I wish you well.<P>Nina

Thanks Nina,<BR>I just talked to her and mentioned that we are into 3 months and nothing has been determined other than we are separated. I know it is tough for her. I have been Plan A'ing, but the kids are asking a LOT of questions and I told my wife we need to really start discussing something for THEM. It hurts me deeply, but I feel 2.5 months is plenty of time to have SOME idea of a direction, even if it is....Lets just leave it as it is now....At least that is SOMETHING! I truly understand your pain and I will be keeping you in my prayers...Damn the Fog! Plan A'ing is so hard at times but I, too, believe it will pay off. How are you holding up?

RobC... may I suggest you check this book out from the library... I've told this to so many people, maybe I've suggested it to you as well. If I have, I apologize for the repeat... but it seems like you could benefit from the wisdom in it...<P>[i]Should I Stay or Go: How Controlled Separation Can Save Your Marriage[i] by Lee Raffel... it's good in that it provides some structure to any separation so you're not just floundering neither of you knowing what your after just knowing what you want to avoid.<P>All the best!<P>------------------<BR><I>The new country is where you are called to go, and the only way to go there is naked and vulnerable</I> ~ Henri Nouwen

Hi Rob C,<P>Thanks for asking. To tell you the truth, the last three days have been hell. I thought I was doing really well, concentrating on Plan A, doing the best I could not to LB, and yesterday I got a little reminder that this just might not work.<P>He comes to see the kids on Sundays, and I go out, usually, though this week I am going to request that he take them somewhere else so I can have time alone at home. Absolute full time kid care gets wearing.<P>Well I was going out, so I had the face on, the hair done, and a jumper (sweater?) on that I KNOW he particularly likes. He said a soon as he saw me that I looked nice...I smiled and said thanks. He had won an award on the Saturday night, which I congratulated him for wholeheartedly, (well as wholeheartedly as you can without touching someone) and we went inside. So that was nice, but when I was leaving and said goodbye, he just sort of off-handedly said yeah, bye Jack, over his shoulder, and it really HURT. I HATE mixed messages, it brings you back to square one.<P>But I think I've had THREE days of hell because I found something out on Friday that I suspected but didn't know for sure. See, he's very depressed, anyone can tell. Just before he left he and I went to the doctor seperately, and I got anti-d's, quick fix and long term. He just got the quick fix. When I asked him why she didn't give him the long terms, he said that she didn't think he was depressed enough. At the time I said "Well you must have put on a pretty good act". Well I went to the doctor on Friday and "US" came up as I was getting my prescription refilled and she mentioned that she had recommended them for my H but he declined them. I said "So you knew he was depressed?" SDhe said "OH, definetely, but I can't make him take the pills." <P>S***!!! I feel truly in my heart that our situation over the last two years has contributed to things now (we're expats in another country, my brother died last year etc - things have happened that would depress a saint). But he wouldn't get help. I wish he would because I KNOW it's not me that's the major problem, but he can't see it through the fog. And he will lose his children in his life if he doesn't get better soon, because he has to move to another country in January, and I can't go there, just waiting for him to make up his mind. I also can't stay here, as our visas are dependent on his work visa. As soon as he leaves, we have to go, and I would be going home to Australia.<P>A litle aside, he doesn't wear his wedding band, hasn't since the beginning. <P>So how am I??? BAD!!! Sorry I am using your thread to vent, but, well, you asked.!!!<P>As for you, and the signs of affairs, well people here usually say there is quite often an affair lurking. I am thinking now that the affair he had in Oct-Jan was never broken off. Some of the signs? He never let his cell phone out of his sight, and when he did all calls were erased, he carried deoderant in his bag (and spare underwear - my dad did this one when HE had an affair). He was miserable when we went on holidays, and kept finding excuses to be away from me (to make phone calls to OW). <P>He started planning things with friends on the weekend which he never usually did, he was overly emphatic in his denials, sex was subtely "different" and finally there was a withdrawal; he could not, and still finds it difficult to look at me. He didn't tell his parents he had left, and when they found out and called him, (my poor 8 year old let the cat out of the bag) he was VERY distant, hiding somthing. Even yesterday, he couldn't wait to be away from the kids for SOME reason, left them with the maid; she fed them and put them to bed. WHAT could be so pressing when you only see your kids twice a week on average? <P>No, he hasn't admitted yet that there is an OW, but having gone through it once before, I KNOW. I'm tempted to find out for sure, and I know how to, it's just a tough decision, but in some ways it would help explain a lot of his actions. I tell you to trust your instinct here, it's a thing we have that we have all forgotten. I KNEW the last time and I KNOW this time. Sorry, but if you're thinking about it, you must have reasons.<P>I hope you and I are wrong, but in my case, I doubt it.<P>Jacky

Boy that sounds very familiar. I was divorced in May. He moved out last July because he just wasn't happy and needed to get happy. After he moved out, friends told me to check my phone records and lo and behold there were two years worth of phone calls to a divorced woman in another town. X used to travel quite a bit and still found reasons to travel to this town. He said she was the girlfriend of his bud and his bud lived with his girlfriend. Lots of other circumstantial evidence, no proof. <P>I digress, anyway whenever I wanted to talk about us, he had nothing to say except that he was unhappy. When I pressed him for specifics he would cite things that happened years ago. Anyway, where I am going with this is that I believed him even up to the day the divorce was final. However, I find out more and more as time goes on and I don't think he was ever faithful. After 8 months, he still wouldn't go to counseling and wouldn't come home, so I made it final. He wanted to stay married and live without the responsibility. <P>The day after I filed for divorce he had a new girlfriend and celebrated their one month anniversary with her while we were still married. Now that the divorce is final he is sleeping with her in the same room with my 13 and 15 year old kids and her 4 year old! He only has one room that he lives in and all five of them stay there together. My daughter says that she sleeps with him naked, she has seen her putting on her t-shirt when she gets up in the morning. Can't he see the damage he is doing to his 13 yr old daughter and 15 yr old son! How do I explain to the kids that their father has no moral values? Luckily, both of the children disagree with the way their father is acting but don't want to say anything to him or rock the boat.<P>Amazing that I didn't see any of this while we were married. I couldn't understand what was going on when he moved out, now things are getting so much clearer!