We had another meeting yesterday. The STBX invited me to lunch - but I went ahead and took the three younger kids, my oldest refused to go - she doesn't want to see him EVER again.<P>He informed them (and me) about ten days ago that he isn't 'responsible for THEIR medical bills' then later paid the 'offending' bill. Yesterday during lunch - he kept pointing out that he now has a five bedroom house - and each of the kids could have their own room - invited the boys to come out and ride the combines - AND - pointedly indicated that we are 'Welcome to move in with him any time.' <P>He has offered NO real support since he's been gone - paid the vehicle insurance once. When anything is mentioned about 'money' he indicates that I am to be bringing in AS MUCH as he does - and he doesn't feel like he should have to do anything around the house - because he works 'farm labor' and it's hour days six days a week.<P>During the ENTIRE marriage - he's never provided a home for our family that was EVEN a decent home. We are NOW living in the nicest place I've lived in since I married him - with the exception of one house - which he didn't want to move into, because it 'lacked character'. Most of the houses we've lived in were mice infested or had NO heat. These are fairly commonly provided for 'farm labor' at no cost to the employee. Farmer takes a write off - employee has housing - such as it is.<P>Three years ago when he worked for the same guy he is now working for (temporary then) he repeatedly commented that the man was brain dead, dumb as a box of rocks, or otherwise inferred the man was STUPID. I honestly don't believe the job - or the house will last. He doesn't work for anyone very long before he starts telling everyone that he's calling in the labor department or the EPA or the safety labor association. <P>He still picks at the financial aspects of our relationship - seems to be his only problem - I couldn't manage a family on his income, make enough to match or surpass his income, and manage a home (he wanted it [censored] and span shining clean when he walked in the door - no matter what I'd done all day), take care of and EDUCATE four kids, and wait on him hand and foot, AND provide SEX when HE wanted it.<P>During the entire meal - he never asked where the oldest daughter was, didn't ask about my job, my week, nothing at all about me - the two boys talked a lot about what they have been doing - but he didn't specifically ask them about their lives, and kept interupting to tell me about his job and what HE was doing. I asked several questions about his job, and responded when he answered, commenting on what he was doing or complimenting him on his accomplishments.<P>When I suggested that the idea of 'moving to the farm' was a bit premature - because none of the emotional issues have been worked out - he became silent and sulky and eventually asked what needed to be discussed. When I pointed out what needed to be discussed, he kept going back to the idea that he has a bigger house now ----- KEY word???? <B>NOW</B><P>I told him that I'm not comfortable with him taking the kids to the farm to ride on farm equipment if he's "NOT RESPONSIBLE" for their MEDICAL NEEDS. (The boys are 6 & 7)<P>Any helpful suggestions here???? I'm really frustrated with this situation... I really just want the divorce to be final and him to quit bothering me... he doesn't seem interested in seeing the kids - the house would have been okay with him if it would have been the two room dugout that was offered the last time he worked for this same person. He just happened to get the big house - because the regular farm help quit - and the guy who he works for is wanting 'us' to work out our marriage problems 'for the kids'....

SJ,<BR>I struggle with the same communication difficulties with my H. I could never make any sense out of his behavior until I read Verbally Abusive Relationships by Patricia Evans. They live in a different reality. They are often unreachable. I've tried so hard to reach my H. He's surrounded by an acre of concrete, and here I've banging my head on it for 14 years. I believe in miracles and hope for a fully functional marriage. Unfortunately, I think I'll need to examine my own reality and convince myself that I'm hoping for something that's probably never going to happen. <P>SJ, from what you describe, your H shows little, if any, signs of personal growth. He shows concern only for himself. There's some good qualities in him I'm sure, which probably fall to the wayside as you post. It's hard to give up on a marriage, even when there's so little benefit derived from it. All these statements describe my situation too. I think my problem is thinking there's an item on my menu that doesn't exist. I'm slowly realizing that I have a menu of two options. I can accept him the way he is, stay under the same roof, and somehow find satisfaction in a marriage which is missing essential ingredients. Or, I can divorce him, and hope that I'll have a happy life in a new direction. The item I want -- a healthy, happy, functional marriage -- apparently isn't on the menu, and it's highly unlikely that it ever will be. Verbal and emotional abusers, according Evan's book, rarely change. I want to think that my H will be different, that mine will be the one who does change. Each time I examine my reality, I have to acknowledge that I'm banging my head on something real hard, and it's time to stop. I guess I haven't really made any suggestions. It just seems like every time you get together with him, you're giving him another chance, and the only thing you ever seem to get is disappointment. You deserve better! I guess the only suggestion I have is for you to examine your reasons for getting together with him. Why do you do it? (I'm not trying to be harsh or flippant with that question. Your H consistently greets your expectations with disappointment, yet you seem to expect something more each time. Since you're in the process of a divorce, perhaps the time to lower your expectations of him has arrived?)

LH - <P>I agree - he's NOT ever going to change - I guess that's probably what I'm trying to say. HE's NEVER going to change - so how do I protect my kids from what he is? Emotional/verbal abuse at this point is not recognized in most courts. How can I protect them from that? <P>I'm not hoping for changes in him even - I don't believe they are there. I don't think I even have the 'faith of a mustard seed' that God can change him anymore - and I'd always had that - until the last two meetings. <P>I have to protect the kids - HOW?

You've got me thinking about my H's nephew now. Unbelievably, my H is the cream of the crop for functionality in comparison to his two brothers. The worst BIL is the one who's the father of the nephew. Every time nephew would visit grandma, nephew would want to see his dad. Dad NEVER made any effort to contact his son. When nephew would reach out and show interest, BIL would either begrudgingly consent to visit or be so out of touch that nephew never got to see his dad. I could never decide which was worse... the times they visited, or the times BIL continued being unavailable. I felt so bad for the nephew. <P>My own dad died when I was 3. While growing up, I thought it was just so terrible that dad was missing. It seemed like everyone had a dad but me. It wasn't until I saw how my BIL treated my nephew that I realized... some kids may indeed be worse off with a living dad. It is so very very sad. <P>I don't know what to say, seeking. I know you want to protect your kids, but I'm not sure that you can. I think maybe the only protection they have is the same protection we have... we can protect ourselves from the hurt by expecting absolutely nothing. It's the only way I know to avoid disappointment. We have made requests for change and received disappointment. As for your kids, I really feel for them. Their dad is alive and breathing, but really and truly, their dad is absent. <P>If there's anyone who can teach their children to have compassion for a man who's as cold and callous as your H, it's you SJ. Hope springs eternal. I think you might be able to adjust your expectations to match your H's ability. After reading your posts for some time, I have a sneaking suspicion that you're never going to let go of hope that he'll get the help he needs to become a whole person. Maybe it's a matter of deciding where reasonable expectations end and hope for a miracle begins. <P>I have no clue what all goes on court-wise with a divorce. It's something that's on my list of learning, unfortunately. Patricia Evan's book came out in '94 I believe. There must some sort of case law out there by now where emotional abuse was considered valid by a court.... If not, then you've got some lawyers and judges to educate!

I guess - the court histories may be something I need to start reading up on. Cases that involve emotional abuse. <P>Hadn't thought about going at it from that angle. <P>I'm tired - not sleep deprived tired - just tired of the hassles and the trouble of being a part of something so demeaning and low. <P>I keep struggling to find the sunshine - and the clouds just move lower. <P>LH - I know there are people out there with normal happy relationships - people who work toward accomplishing life together - I know several people who do that... I just keep thinking "Why couldn't I have been one of THOSE people?" Why are my cards stacked against me? Maybe I'm the one who is stacking them? I guess, that's my biggest question... Am I setting myself up for failure??? If so, how and how can I change that? I'm tired of failing.