OK Frankie<P>Who's the lucky person then. Only joking, I can identify with a lot of the other girl's on the board whose H's are exactly the same as mine. <P>If things went futher on these boards, I guess we would end up having to rename them, and low and behold our betrayers could end up posting about us. It's about time we had a little bit of 'vise-versa'. (only joking).<P>Vital Stats<BR>--- (only joking again)<P>Cuddles

I can't believe what I'm seeing here on this thread!<P>This is marriagebuilders, people, not married looking for an affair. Frankie, no matter what I say it won't matter to you, but I cannot believe your W is still with you. She deserves better.

Isaac,<P>No guilt trips here!!! Please we all do that on our own time! You may not have been reading prior posts.......therefore, you may not be in tune with feelings of the people who post here. Please know that you must hear all sides before you freak out like that. In reality, that is not fair to be so self rightous. Who is to say for anyone else except them, not me...that is for sure!<BR>I have learned that we all walk in different shoes and experience life in different ways, and try to get out of it what we decide we need and want. Only the individual themselves can decide what is for them! And they have every right to!!! Marriage is a man made condition, who is to say you have to stay if you are not doing well!

dlara -- I guess I'm thinking the main purpose of the board is for help with marriages, not creating another avenue for extramarital relationships. No guilt trip here...just expressing my opinion. Have experienced my fair share of pain regarding this, and this forum should be a solace for help, not, as Frankie stated, trying to meet others. Sorry that this is a sensitive subject to me, but this forum is called Marriage Builders. And I'm not saying that all marriages are salvageable, and that everyone has to put up with so much abuse from their h/w's, but Frankie making an overt attempt of trying to find another relationship? here...another issue.

.<p>[This message has been edited by StevieB (edited May 25, 1999).]

Hey Guys,<P>Now you all have my interest! I find this so interesting in many aspects dealing with human nature. Firstly, who can define what a marriage board is? and what is a marriage board supposed to do for the soul? My point is , humans bieng able to share their feelings are the bottom line here. no matter what they are feeling. Whether it be for or against marriage...both viewpoints are acceptable and debatable. I cannot understand the anger that has come up on this particular thread..........What has this man done, except say what he is feeling.........is that not OK? and if not, why? I am confused!!! he is not messing with anyones mind...he is stating HIS feelings! As well we all can and should.

.<p>[This message has been edited by StevieB (edited May 25, 1999).]

Frankie and Dlara...........<P><BR> Gee what in the heck did we do to some of these people reading this post? Frankie was stating he feels close to some people in here about communication not no affair. What is wrong with feeling close to someone with writing a post? Thats how I see it. He was just stating how he feels Stevie. Seems to me you are very bitter for some reason. Why would your wife accuse you of anything reading these? We don't really need the cursing either. Please keep that to yourself. Like one said we don't know what path we are heading down nobody does. Do you know whats going to happen in your life tommorrow? I am glad you stated you wanted to be a good husband. I am sure most all men do to some point if they are happy. Frankie and Dlara I really enjoy reading your posts. Please keep writing Keep in touch and chins up all :-)

Yes, do keep talking and chatting with each other. Maybe even email. And see what happens. Not to worry, though, you are all welcome to join us on the Infidelity forum afterwards. Frankie should know better, he's already had affairs. <P>Maybe we could explore the theme, "once a cheater always a cheater".

lark, once a cheater always a cheater? i want to rewrite this. we are all cheaters and will cheat, or not, and cheat again depending on the circumstances. if you've never cheated, you still may cheat, if given the right circumstances. as dr. harley writes, the only reason more people don't have affairs is because the opportunity never presented itself. and what about those marital vows? they fly out the window in those same circumstances. you, my dear lady, unfortunatly, are no exception.<BR>as someone else responded, i didn't come here looking for an affair. but while here i have become emotionally involved with some of the members. i'm glad i did. i look forward each morning to reading their responses and responding to theirs'. i can't imagine falling in love with any of them, but then again, i never imagined falling in love with the ow, but i did. i don't recall ever writing that i trying to meet anyone on this board. but really, i have met them, and you too. isaac, i was wondering, why are you sensitive about someone trying to meet others. i'll bet you would be on the phone calling any number of people on this board, if only you had their phone number or email address. why limit yourself to only communicating like this if you don't have to?<BR>wonder, we don't need the cursing? the taboo against cursing is another sticking point for me. i use profanity a lot and all ways have. i've always wondered why you can say doggoneit and it's ok but you can't say damnit. think about it. it's just a sound, it doesn't hurt anyone. the sound of shucks is no better or worse then the sound of shxt. when we spell it wrong, it's ok. but we've all already thought the word in it's correct spelling. a word, typed or spoken is no more right or wrong then a sight be right or wrong. is it any more right to look at a sun set than to look at a pile of feces. it's just a sight, neither one hurts us unless we decide it should. who was it that decided, i guess a long, long time ago, that one word was ok and another wasn't. ok, this has nothing to do with marriage, or maybe it does, but i just had to let it go.<BR>i hope all of you continue posting for a long time. i know i will.

frankie...usually I read the board, and don't post, but did have to reply to this because you are not only making false presumptions about me, but about everyone. We aren't all like you, bud. Some of us have learned the lesson. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>, and you too. isaac, i was wondering, why are you sensitive about someone trying to meet others. i'll bet you would be on the phone calling any number of people on this board, if only you had their phone number or email address. why limit yourself to only communicating like this if you don't have to?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>wow..that's great. Sorry to surprise here...umm, but nope, sure wouldn't. You haven't once come here looking for advice to help your marriage. I seem to see that you're only here to talk about how great the ow was. Or about how you'd "match up with one of the posters" like you said.<P>really, I shouldn't be spending my time replying to this, but I'd hate to see this board turn into something that it wasn't intended for. It's helped me alot.

Frankie,<P>I personally never believed the phrase "once a cheater always a cheater." And I do agree with you that everyone is capable of cheating. But it what makes the difference is that person who actually learns from their mistakes and grows as a person. The ones who fall right back into the same old behaviors and the same old trap they did before are the ones who make that "once a cheater..." phrase flourish.<P>Most people whose marriages have deteriorated had no idea how to have a successful marriage nor how to avoid an affair. Here you are on the quintissential AFFAIR-PROOF website, and yet you are pushing the envelope as if you are ignorant to what this kind of behavior can lead to. You have ALL this information at your fingertips that tells you flat out what you should and shouldn't be doing. I suggest you read Dr. Harley's insight concerning internet affairs and emotional affairs once more. In my opinion, that makes you either very dumb, or very thoughtless and callous. I'll let you pick which one.<P>Start talking to your wife. She deserves better than this.

Hey everyone...wow! Very intriguing topic here!<P>I can understand certain points on both sides of this debate. For instance, my H DID feel closer to a couple of the women he had met on the Internet...so close in fact, that he made arrangements to meet with one of them in Calgary (never did go through with it, thank God!). I, on the other hand, felt a real connection with two of the posters on another site I visit, and we have extended our friendship beyond the board. One of them is a woman with whom I talk to on ICQ almost daily, and we have exchanged many emails. She and her boyfriend are even planning a trip to Canada and we are hoping to get together. The other one (a man) and I have exchanged a few emails, etc. The important difference here is that my H knows about BOTH of these people. I often share some of the exchanges I've had with these people with my H, and he has even had a couple of exchanges with my male correspondent (they are both struggling with similar issues). I also feel a particular "closeness" to Heather and StevieB as they work on resolving their problems (how's it going you two! .<P>I think the important thing here is when deceipt enters the picture. For instance, if my H had a female friend that he talked to on the net and I knew about it, I would feel no more threatened than if he were talking to one of his "real life" female aquaintances. It's when he started trying to hide it that I started feeling concern...and rightly so. I would expect nothing less from him if I were the one trying to hide an online friendship from him.<P>Just my opinion <P>Michelle<P>------------------<BR>Peace<P>

michelle, knowing your spouse is emailing someone, a woman, or if your h knows you're emailing another man will do nothing to stop him or you from slidding down that slippery slope. you or he can take that first emotional step on to the slope without the other knowing it. at that point, the cheating spouse will not be telling you everything. they may tell you some things but at this point they are hooked. be very careful. you can't see it coming.

Is it frankie or should I call you "sybil"? Why are you warning Michelle when you are the one who brought this whole subject up? Walk to the bathroom, look in the mirror, and warn yourself! My goodness!

I've read most of Frankie's post all over this board and frankly I think he is just an emotionally twisted man who is not happy in a relationship. But refuses to do the necessary things to either make the relationship work or let it go. Give this all a break, no one is responsible for your happiness but you. If you chose to stay in a situation that you are constantly unhappy, then that is on you. Stop looking other places for what is void in your present relationship. If you had one ounce of care for the other person in the relationship, you would stop the mockery and give you both a real chance at something good. Frankie get real you want to have sex with someone and your just setting the bait waiting for someone to bite. I'm sure there are plenty of boards or sites on the internet that would fulfill this need for you. I just don't think that the MARRIAGEBUILDERS forum is the proper place to conduct this type of business. Hello, MARRIAGEBUILDERS! I think the title is self explanatory. By the way I thought Marriage was set forth by God and it was something that two people agreed to enter into, not a condition that suddenly fell on you.<P>------------------<BR>JDC<BR>

lark, i suggest you reread my earlier posts. i think you'll see that i never advocated an on-line sexual or emotional affair. i simply asked if others had become linked to certain others. i have, i named them in one of my posts. i didn't write that i was romanticly connected to anyone but many jumped to that conclusion. the members i listed seem to think as i, for lack of a better explanation. we are in similar situations but i wouldn't, actually i couldn't, have a romantic relationship with anyone on this board. i supposed it's designed to restrict that sort of thing. if, i somehow was able to and did talk with someone, a woman i met on this board, by phone, i might become romanticly involved. i'm like everyone else, vulneralbe to an affair. there are those i like based on what i've read and what i imagine. how i deal with that is really just my business. i believe many members construe my honesty and how i express it with some form of fringe mentality. you don't have to believe this, or anything else i write, but i'm a regular person. i like to think, and believe it's true, i'm a rebel and a free thinker. i resent authority figures. i like me this way. i have a special job, moved all over this country and haven't missed a paycheck in over 31 years. because i've moved so often i don't have many friends and that may be part of why i like this board. i don't have any serious marital problems at this time though i have thoughts and questions regarding my and others' marriage. so now you know more about me then most. they just don't know it.lol.

Most affairs start in the mind, a little fun fantasy, not hurting anyone, right? At some point between thoughts and reality, the destructive behavior (in this case, infidelity) must become a total NON-OPTION. For those who have ALREADY made it an option with their actions, I'd tend to believe that they should carefully monitor their "thoughts" as well. Any thoughts of how nice it might be to "hook up" with another member of this MARRIAGE BUILDERS forum should promptly be followed by a reminder of how those same trend in thoughts put so many of us erstwhile betrayers into a hell-on-earth. But as I've said before, those without a conscious lead a real easy life. So keep on keepin' on.

Frankie, your origninal question was out of place and highly inappropriate for this forum. You say: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"i don't have any serious marital problems at this time though i have thoughts and questions regarding my and others' marriage."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>The sad part is, I think you really believe this. Anyone who has read your posts can see that you do have some serious issues. I don't know if those issues have grown out of your marital problems or whether your marital condition has grown out of your issues. But the fact remains, something's awry.<P>So far, this has been a healthy forum and a safe haven for those of us who are hurting and want to BUILD OUR MARRIAGES. Please don't help turn it into the contrary. There are plenty of other forums out there for this kind of contemplation.<P>Please, don't "go there" here.

Hi Frankie...thank you for the warning, but I think you missed my point. I was simply trying to point out that when deceipt is brought into the picture, then things can get very destructive.<P>You are right when you say that there is a risk of becoming too emotionally attached, and unfortunately, I did see it coming...hence the reason I'm here in the first place. <P>My parents encouraged me to have both male and female friends while I was growing up. My father's best friend of almost 40 years was a women with whom my mother also ended up developing a very close relationship. There were many letters, phone calls, etc., exchanged between the two of them, after my family and I moved away from Toronto. But, there was nothing being hidden here. This is what I was trying to point out in my original post. My mother had no reason whatsoever to mistrust my father because he never gave her any. By the same token, if my mother had felt concern over this friendship and asked my father to please stop, I have no doubt in my mind that he would have. Why? Because he deeply loved and respected my mother (he has since passed away).<P>My instincts told me that something more was going on with my H and his women friends than I had originally thought. My suspicions were confirmed. He has since stopped the correspondence and we are working on rebuilding our relationship. He, on the other hand, has never once asked me to stop corresponding with my friends, because he does not feel threatened. I have NEVER given him a reason to. However, if at any time he voiced a concern and asked me to stop, I would do so without thinking twice. As far as starting something up with my "male friend", it is not something that has ever even occured to me. Even when my H was in the throes of his "Internet activity" and my emotional needs were being sorely neglected I never felt an urge to explore this possiblity. It simply is not an option for me.<P>I understand completely how this can get out of hand...I am living with this realization everyday; and the affects of this type of betrayal do run deep, indeed. Perhaps I was raised to be overly trusting of people, or maybe I simply believed that all people feel the same way I do. I honestly don't know. However, I can say this...these online friendships for my H are no different than alcohol is to a person with a drinking problem - they are toxic.<P>Michelle<P>------------------<BR>Peace<P>