An Ohio attorney here with questions I ususally answer for others, butr now I need help. I met a wonderful woman with three children. She had them late in life(I'm 48, she's 47 and the kids are 16, 12, and 7).We've talked about marriage in a couple years. Relationship I have with the kids seems fine. We differ on discipline, and I realize they are not my children, but I would be living with them. I am on the strict side and she on the permissive. To complicate things, her former husband is jealous, possessive, etc. and ignores the fact they are not married at times. He also doesn't like me, nor would he like any man in her life, and has made negative comments to the kids about me even we haven't met(I offered, he refused). Blended families are difficult-any suggestions from people that have been there-done that. Thanks, Lee<P>------------------<BR>

You should not be disciplining them, just as you would probably not even consider disciplining a child of any other friend. You should not pretend to take the place of their father. You can hopefully be their friend and maybe even a mentor, but anything more than that is overstepping your boundaries and is pretty much guaranteed to cause major resentment. <P>How long have they been divorced? Which one left? Which one had an affair? All these things need to be considered because they have an impact on any potential relationships with her children.

Nellie1, Thank you for replying, although I am not sure understand your post completely and I think I respectfully disagree with parts of it. I belileve step-parents do play a role in the development of step-children and do have a role in discipline. If my then wife is not home at the time and I ask them to do something(nothing outrageous) and the response is "no" or name-calling or whatever, your suggestion is let it go and say nothing? My thoughts were my future wife and I would come to a consensus on this, and will, I'm sure, and have a united front, back each other,etc. There father is not there obviously, but I know my role and I would never pretend to be their father, but I believe as a step-dad I play a role as a father figure in what will be a household of five. Even if not a parent, as an adult, I believe there should be respect both ways and I believe us to be friends(despite the negative comments from their father). Friend and mentor-sure; and my guess is they set some of boundaries themselves. However, I have a hard time with your suggestion I play no role as an adult figure, or parental figure in their lives. They have been divorced more than a year and separated before that about four years. To my knowledge no one had an affair. Physically and verbally abusive relationship for her and no, I didn't witness it, but I have heard him yelling and screaming on the phone and have seen a couple emails by him which are no less than nasty. Appreciate your input even if we don't completely agree. Lee<BR>

P.S. to Nellie1 By the way, I'm talking physical discipline. Don't believe in it and even if I did it wouldn't be age appropriate here. And yes, if a friend left me in charge of their child(ren) I would discipline where appropriate. If that meant saying no TV, sitting in chair, etc.; then yes, I would do that. If a child is endangering another, or him(her)self, or is being completely disrepectful and it could not be handled by simply talking, priveleges would be taken away or something done. My guess is my friend not entrust their child(ren) to me to let them run wild.<P>------------------<BR>

P.S. to Nellie1 By the way, I'm talking physical discipline. Don't believe in it and even if I did it wouldn't be age appropriate here. And yes, if a friend left me in charge of their child(ren) I would discipline where appropriate. If that meant saying no TV, sitting in chair, etc.; then yes, I would do that. If a child is endangering another, or him(her)self, or is being completely disrepectful and it could not be handled by simply talking, priveleges would be taken away or something done. My guess is my friend not entrust their child(ren) to me to let them run wild.<P>------------------<BR>

Obviously you wouldn't let a young child run out in the street or hit his sibling with a baseball bat. That is not discipline - that is just ensuring their safety. If I saw a child who was a complete stranger doing that, I would do my best to stop him.<P>"Disrespectful" is another matter. Two of these kids will be teenagers - you have to expect them to be disrespectful. In any case, respect can not be demanded - it can only be earned. <P>You mentioned marriage in a couple of years - the oldest will be an adult by then, and the next one will think he or she is. You have come into their lives way too late to be considered a parental figure - not to mention the fact that they already have 2 parents. You are setting yourself up for major disappointment if you think you can come into a teenager's life and tell him what he can and can not do - they don't even listen to their parents at this age. They will resent you, and so, probably, will their mother. <P>

Nellie1 I appreciate your responses, or at least taking the time to respond. I understand about respect, about earning it not demanding it.You sound angry. I have worked with kids for 18 years in my profession in varoius capacities. A step-parent does take on a parental role to step-children, but we seem to way off track on my original question, or it was not clear enough. I was hoping to find others that have had similar experiences. My guess is I want them to love and respect their father as much as their mother. She has a difficult time with him because of the years of physical and verbal abuse. I have encouraged her to communicate with him but he comes from a background where women are seen has property, nothing more, nothing less. Any man in her life would be subjected to same abuse he has shown me. I don't for one minute believe his disrespect toward her in front of the kids is good for them, but again, that is another subject altogether. I'm not getting angry with you, but I have no clue where you're coming from. Again, despite his efforts to malign my character, I have a good relationship with the kids and want to keep it. Thanks though. Lee

Thank you for helping me out with my question (Lostinny) now let me try to offer you some advice, since I grew up with a step-mother. I was only a baby when my mom died so my father re-married when I was 1.<P>This is the experience my older brother had. My father left it up to my stepmother and brother she had no experience with children, along with the fact that she spoke very little english. My father should have laid out specific rules. My brother became so unhappy he left home at 17. He is now 45,never married and has a hard time finding the "right women".<BR> So your future wife must let you in on how she diciplins the children, if you do not agree try to get to some level ground. Also ask the children how they would expect you to dicipline them. Children need rules and they need to know what lines not to cross.

There is no one right way to parent. Over the years, parents develop a parenting style, and hopefully a shared vision in regard to the most important aspects of parenting. When someone else steps in and disrupts that, the results are likely to be disasterous.

Nellie1, I appreciate your continued responses. I accidentally posted this twice and on the other I a response that made some sense from Jabber. I wish I knew more about your background. You seem to have a very negative view on all of this. I really believe through love,<BR>kindness and gentleness, things do have to be disasterous. By the way, their mother does not share your thoughts I do not play a role in the upbringing or guidance of her children. Just by being there, I am going to have a negative or positive influence. Keep in mind, teachers set rules and enforce them and there is a legal term for this. Why wouldn't another adult not also have input. School rules often differ with parental rules but children are expected to follow them. You can use words like disruption and disaster, but I think there can be a more positive way to look at all of this. Thanks.<P>------------------<BR>

Hi everyone. I have not been posting on MB for a long time but I read posts every day.<P>I am now divorced and have full custody of my 12 year old D. I allow generous visitation to ex but he does not utilize it. He left for OW, they have the house and had hoped to use that to persuade D to live with them so she would not have to change schools. There is a lot of rough housing and little discipline there. OW son failed last year and had to attend summer school. They openly bad mouth her ex and us to these kids. OW son talks disrespectfully to both of them. This upsets my D because she knows it is wrong. <P>I have moved and am living with my SO. D lives with us and is changing schools. SO and D get along wonderfully. We will be getting married next year. He does not have children of his own. He has to have the ability to disipline D. We are living in a family atmosphere. I need him to back me and he needs me to back him. He has to be able to have control, say yes or no, or whatever if I am not right there. Fortunately for us she is a very good kid, she knows right from wrong and he and I have similar views on discipline. He has provided stability, support and a happy mother that she had not had for some time. He is interested in her activities and her school work. She sees him as an ally, she respects him and does not question when he makes a discipline decision.<P>I feel that if this is a woman you want to marry and want to make a family then you need to be able to discipline no matter what the ages are. They need an united front from both of you. You need to talk to her and come to an agreement or compromise on discipline issues. Yes there will be resentment and disrespectful attitudes and just teen attitudes but if you are united, do not go overboard and take your time integrating discipline it can work. <P>I have read and heard of people saying they are my children not yours. This is true, but that attitude really hurts the marrige if not kills it. It can cause resentment and unmet EN.

My X was extremely controlling and thought physical punishment was always the answer. I read books on how to discipline with love and found other solutions because when they are teenagers if you physically punish them they will eventually have no respect for you. My girls are 16 & 15, I talked to them like adults, I tell them their consequences, I ask them how they think they should be punished and what length of time. Then I say I'll get back with you, so I can calm down. In the 2 years since my divorce, there is no more screaming, slamming doors or physical confrontations.<P>The thing that has helped the most is to talk to them like adults, let them know you respect them as a person and you should be respected as well. Tell them there will be times when you disagree, but we will have to compromise and work through it like adults. You and your wife should always talk first and figure out the discipline, then go to the child and talk. You should never discipline without the other spouse unless someone is in immediate danger. Things are good with my girls; however, discipline is an adventure because if I even raise my voice they think I am screaming now. Good luck

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>School rules often differ with parental rules but children are expected to follow them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>While it is true that schools have additional rules that are not really applicable to a family - unless you are raising 25 children of the same age - if the school rules or discipline were in conflict with what I believe appropriate, I would NOT allow the school to discipline my child. As an example, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, where we used to live, still allows corporal punishment, specifically hitting children with a wooden paddle. Our school district had not actually paddled anyone in many years, but if they had ever attempted to paddle any of my kids (they were legally required to notify the parents first) I certainly would not have allowed it. <P>

I have two step-children (a boy, aged 9, and a girl, aged 13) and I am NOT their mother -- although I am a parental figure. I can just now, after being here 9 months, ask them to do something, but I do NOT discipline them. I let their Dad do it. <P>In what may seem the icky thing of the year to most people, their mother, her H, my H and me, have had group meetings about the children. We are all trying to provide the best parenting situations as we can. I do NOT try to be their mother, and her H does not try to be Dad.<P>My mother is a psychotherapist, and she teaches parenting classes. She told me that it is best if I NEVER give out punishment. Let Dad do it. Do I tell them if I'm disappointed in an action, or if I need some help? Sure. I try my best to treat my H's children how I would want my children to have been treated when they were young. <P>They didn't ask for this upheaval, and I try to make the landing as gentle as possible.<P>

Nellie1, The back and forth banter has been fun and I would love the opportunity to speak with you some day. We have drifted so far from my original question. Oh well! A family of 25-how sardonic! You and I are never going to agree and that's okay I guess. The fact is, the world is full of rules we may or may not like. Even this Website has rules. I think as parents we have a duty to teach our kids about rules and consequences. There are methods for changing rules, laws, etc. If you carry your argument out it's logical extension; if you're kids have a job and the boss says be there at 8:00 a.m., are you really saying if they feel like showing up at 9:30 a.m., that's OK? Working closely with kids the past 18 years, I get tired of the MTV generation and their lack of respect for rules, having no manners, calling adults by their first names, permissive parents that think children are adults instead of letting them grow into responsibility, parents who think their kids are their best friend(they're not), etc. ad nauseum. I don't know your age but you sound like your either from my generation(60's kid that never grew up) or the Pepsi generation(I think that was the "me" generation) So many times I've represented juveniles accused of crimes and their parents want me to get them off. My job-but I'm not sure what it teaches about responsibility for actions. One story. When my daughter was 16 she was out with a friend that was 15. My daughter had been drinking and decided she shouldn't be driving so she let her unlicensed friend drive. They sideswiped a car, came home and went to bed. I knew she had been drinking but didn't think that was the time to talk about it so I sent her to bed and told her we'd talk in the morning(which is when I saw the damage to the car). I took her out in the morning, we found the other driver, I had her apologize, and later took her to the police station(the other girl's mom was given the option of going with us if she wanted and did). I had my duaghter explain what happened-which turned out to be nothing from the police. She grounded for a period of time from using the car and also going out. Never hit, never yelled at. So, Nellie, tell me, did I do the right or wrong thing-she could easily have gotten away with it!?!<P>------------------<BR>

To answer your last question first, no, of course she needed to take responsibility for hitting another car.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The fact is, the world is full of rules we may or may not like. There are methods for changing rules, laws, etc.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>As an adult, you have the power to change the rules through your vote, etc. If you don't like when your boss tells you to show up, you have the power to quit your job. Children, unfortunately, do not have that power, but I can try to encourage them to exercise what power they do have to change rules that are wrong. Yes, I was in high school in the sixties, thank goodness - when kids weren't scared to go out on a limb to get the rules changed. Often it seems that people either submit to authority mindlessly, or they respond with violence - neither of which are good solutions.<P>BTW, two of my children are adults now, and are among the most responsible people I know. One has been living on her own and managing quite well in a foreign country for a year. The other got an associate's degree at 18 and is now living on her own, hundreds of miles away, and working 50 hours a week. On two occasions I have had their bosses come up to me to tell me how well they handled responsibility. Apparently our child rearing methods didn't screw them up too badly.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>having no manners, calling adults by their first names, permissive parents that think children are adults instead of letting them grow into responsibility,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm not sure what your problem with calling adults by their first name is - Amish children do, and I doubt anyone would call them disrespectful. When I was teaching college students, I kept asking people to call me by my first name. My advisor in college would not respond if you called him Dr. ..., and everyone of his students respected him greatly. <P>Personally, I think one problem is that kids don't grow up soon enough, that they don't have enough responsibility at a young enough age. Our kids could take care of all the farm chores, including milking, by around 13. By the time the oldest were in their mid teens, they WERE adults. <BR>

Nellie1, glad your kids are doing well. We agree on something. I was brought to question authority wihtout resorting violence for change, although I was part of a movement that did resort to violence in the form of demonstrations that sometimes turned out that way. I have to tell you, the movement of the 60's died and there is very little to show for it. As far as first names, I'm talking about a general trend away from manners. Don't hear "please" "thank you" etc. often anymore. I disagree with the concept children don't grow up fast enough. Used to be a time when kids could be kids. Rather than be an adult at 13, I'd rather be a kid a while longer. Sure sounds like you imposed some pretty heavy burdens on your kids when they were young. Child labor laws would probably not allow you do that except with your own kids. Kind of suppports what I've been saying all along. I keep hoping for the day when kids will once be socially active, but most seem content to play with their Gameboys and seem oblivious to world around them. When I say MTV generation, I'm really talking about about attention spans. It seems like if something requires more than a few seconds of thought, kids quit. School are turning out nonthinkers and with the toys today, creativity is being stifled. Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong(thank you Dennis Miller). Nellie1, I'm starting to like you. Lee<P>------------------<BR>

I'm glad we agree at least occasionally . I think the violence that erupted in the anti-war movement contributed to the fact that there is little to show for it. <P>Actually, I believe that 13 year olds are allowed to work on other people's farms - whether if makes sense or not, different child labor laws apply to farm work. I don't think the kids saw the farm work as a heavy burden - all of us worked together as a family to do what had to be done. Our kids undoubtedly had it pretty easy compared to our neighbors' kids, most of whom were Amish. <P>I agree about the Gameboy oblivion. One of the greatest advantages of raising kids farming was that they could see that they were making an important contribution to the family's welfare. Their work never felt meaningless, and farming certainly teaches patience and problem-solving skills. I can't think of a better way to raise kids to be responsible adults. <p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited August 12, 2001).]

Nellie1, I was kidding about the child labor laws. I'm assuming you have been married once. We still don' agree on the role of a step-parent. I'm not sure it was violence of anti-war movement. People grow up, they get comfortble and they forget what's important. My biggest concern now is the environment. Keep hoping for some activism. I grew up in a farm community in Ohio. Only tie now is I belong to the America Farmland Trust. Keep the faith Nellie1. Lee <P>------------------<BR>

Hi Lee,<P>Have you checked with some of the local churches. I know that my church last year ran a seminar for Blended Families. They also did a DivorceCare which I attended and found helpful (even tho I didn't completely agree with everything). Look thru the newspapers in the section where they have group meetings listed - I know I've seen stuff for step families and such.<P>Good luck,<P>------------------<BR>Kathy