Well, this morning was the big conversation. You all would have been so proud. I was calm, cool, and caring, but also very clear, firm and strong in what I said. He knew he was being tailed for the past 2 days so it wasn't a big shock to him that I knew. He did not deny affair but says it only started 2-3 weeks ago. I'm not sure if I believe him and I told him that. Actually I had to say we had a conversation because there was really nothing confrontational about it. I told him the affair had to end today. I could no longer be his "pretend wife" if the affair continued. I said he didn't have to move back in with me but he had to move out of the house with her. Yes he was living in a house with her that they split to rent half of it. I asked to see the lease papers so I could see that he was actually renting, not just living with her. <P>I am really confused now because I have to decide whether I beleive what he is saying or not. He is still so depressed. He is in such pain and I know this sounds like a cop-out but I don't think he is capable of making a permanent decision about our marriage in his state of mind. <P>He has asked for a couple of days to think. I told him he could not be with her and that I couldn't stand the thought of him being in the same house with her. I was completely clear that he would have to move out by Saturday or I would not be able to continue being patient and understanding. I did not say he had to move back here. I actually suggested that he didn't so we could have time to work things out first. He knows without a shadow of a doubt that he has to commit to no contact with this woman, ever again. I was very very clear that if I was to rebuild my trust, he had to be completely honest with me. <P>I made him a doctors appt for tomorrow but he didn't want to go. The only time they had was 3 hours after he got off. I don't see this as a positive sign. He has always hated doctors but I was pretty firm that if he did not do something about his depression, there really wasn't any reason to try to work on marriage. I reminded him that he was a big boy and that I wouldn't force him to go. He did ask for 3 of my wellbutrin, enough to get him to Sat morning. <P>He said that many times he has wanted to come home but he was afraid that since he was so miserable that he was afraid he would blow it. <P>My mom called, I'll write more later...<P>L

Sorry about that. I inherited my gift for gab from my mom so I knew it would be awhile and AOL would most likely kick me off.<P>Anyway, back to my dilema. I really want to work on my marriage. I know I shouldn't have allowed him to have until Sat but I had pretty much decided this morning that I would give him til then to let me know if he was willing to end the affair. That is all I am asking at this time. I want to take this slow and make sure we do it right.<P>I know he loves me, he just cannot see it because of the depression. He did say he noticed the changes I had made and was proud of me. He doubted they were sincere in the beginning but I have proved him wrong. He also said the tough love letter I gave him meant more to him than anything in the world. He says the hopes that he would be able to return to our marriage one day as a happy person has kept him going. He is scared he will just screw it up again.<P>He asked for time to do things together as a family. I firmly said I would give him all the time he needed and I would gladly do family things with him as long as he was not involved in the affair and that we were getting counseling and working together towards common goals. <P>There were alot of hugs, handholding, etc nothing more(give me a little credit here ) He cried and I teared but never sobbed. The only begging I did was to ask him not to sleep with this woman again. I just can't bear the thought of it. <P>Only time will tell. I beleive God wants us to make this marriage work. He(God) has been so good to me. My H still says I'm his best friend and that he has always thought we were soul mates. <P>I hate that my marriage fell apart. I hate that my husband is depressed. I hate that he had an affair. I hate myself for being so trusting without a reason. BUT I don't think any of these things cannot be changed or rebuilt. <P>I am still prepared for him to pick her. I just have to protect my heart and my children. <P>If he has not moved by Sat, I will know our marriage is not a priority in his life and I can begin to heal. This place I have been for the past 6 months has been like a raw gaping wound. I am finally finding the strength within myself to "apply some peroxide". <P>I'm sure most of you will think he is just playing me for a fool or that he doesn't care. I suppose I will see. I think the man I love and married is still somewhere inside the cold-hearted shell of a man I saw today. He is continuing to lose weight. Really looks bad. He's about 5'11 and weighs around 140, maybe less now.<P>Please pray for me and for my husband and my family. I don't want to see him throw his life and marriage away but as I told him, it was not my decision to make. I just have to learn to accept things either way and get on with my life with or without him. I just happen to want it to be with him but this is not a one-way street. I'm really numb right now. <P>Lynn<BR>

Good job! I don't have much else to say. This is a tough time, and nothing is going to make it otherwise.<P>Something to remember though...<P>"Tough love", Plans A & B, et cetera...none of these things are magical formulae, in the sense that perfect adherence will result in everything going the way you want, and the slightest mistake will result in everything going badly. I kind of look at these principles like wearing a seatbelt: it's a good idea to wear it, because in most accidents you will come out ahead; but there is still always the possibility of an atypical accident in which wearing your seatbelt can get you killed.<P>My point being, second-guessing minor nuances of your behavior isn't generally the most profitable thing you can do. Saturday, or earlier or later, it's hard to see how it would make much difference; or if it did, it's hard to see what that difference might be.<P>So, while you need to do the best you can, don't forget to cut yourself some slack, OK? <P>P.S. Mike, if you stop in here, my use of the "magical formulae" phrase reminds me: I think you may have missed my response to you in <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/003720-2.html" TARGET=_blank>this thread</A>, where I was trying to correct a misunderstanding. I think that's about when you dropped off the forum. Anyway, I would hate for there to be any lingering hard feelings...<BR><p>[This message has been edited by GnomeDePlume (edited August 09, 2001).]

I don't have time to write much now, as it's late. But, you sound so calm and your response process sounded so excellent. So, don't worry about any criticism from the Board. You could write the book on best ways to share with your spouse that you know they're having an affair!<P>I stand in awe at your strength... keep drawing from God otherwise YOU, Lynn, will not be able to hold up. I'm sorry for your H's depression, I know a lot about it as I think my H is clinically depressed also.<P>I admire the fact that you took a stand with the OW and that you insist he seek medical help. Excellent boundaries you've established also.<P>Great job!<P>------------------<BR><I>The new country is where you are called to go, and the only way to go there is naked and vulnerable</I> ~ Henri Nouwen

1. GNP...no, but I never responded to your response, so...I am the one who is sorry. I have taken to responding only to threads where I feel that I can say something positive. I would not be talking to Lynn, for example, because I don't feel that the confrontation thing is always profitable, etc...but that's just me again. At that time, I was simply going about the business of stating my opinion, and that is not always a good thing to do. If you followed me around then, you'd see that this whole second guessing thing is what I was trying to prevent. BTW, I've been 'right behind' you, literally, and figuratively this week!<P>2. Lynn,<BR> That's great news, it really is. You got a good result with your actions, but it seems as though your are redoubling your efforts in an attempt to totally clear the air NOW. You are ready for that, he is likely NOT. Take the small victory, and don't push too hard. He will retreat into a place where it is safer to be dishonest with you, and NO ONE WANTS THAT! You have revealed something he held close...he is probably waiting for you to do something in character. I'd like to suggest that you change the nature of his 'view' of you by doing the opposite. You are giving your marriage an unrealistic ultimatum, IMHO...its weak now, and won't tolerate any LBs. Yes, that is an LB. It is unrealistic to think that he would be able to snap the tie before Saturday. Not so much the emotional one, but he is obligated through the lease, and she will likely throw her weight around somewhat with respect to the lease...she might need his money to pay rent, and will press that to keep him near her. Please try to put yourself in her shoes, and see that she will not just lie down, either. I am not trying to give her any power over you in this, but only trying to state what I feel is reality.<P>Again, this is good news...please read my wordy response to <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/003924.html" TARGET=_blank>eyes_wide_shut</A> about second-guessing things. I am going to put it in a new topic about second guessing, because it is a big mistake that we are making, especially when you consider that common sense (uh, yeah) dictates that you do that. -Mike

Thanks for the replies. I have felt God's presence with me and I prayed ernestly that He would guard my mouth and give me the words to say.<P>I understand completely about the ultimatum. I didn't want to give it either and really I guess I haven't. I have just made the decision to go directly to Plan B if the affair doesn't end. I didn't go into the details of our conversation but he says it really didn't mean much to him and that he doesn't really talk to her. He also wants to move from there anyway because her kid bugs him. Apparently there is only a towel over a window between the 2 spaces and the girl has free reign to roam. <P> He did mention about a month ago that the reason he didn't have a phone yet was because he didn't plan to stay there. As far as his lease, I asked and he said he had to give so many days notice. He would check to see. I really don't care if he loses the money for a month's rent. It means very little in the overall scheme of things. About 6 months before he gave the "I'm not happy" speech, he sold his 71 Chevelle SuperSport which we had worked together to restore somewhat. So I know he isn't dead broke anyway. Also he's working 7 days a week at over $13/hour.<P>I'm sure this has been hard on him and I acknowledge that there will be a process for him to get over her if he has feelings for her. The impression I got was that she was persuing him and that he thought somehow she might make him feel better or more alive. He is desparately searching for himself and no longer gets any pleasure out of life. I suppose he thinks that the pleasure of an affair could replace the pain and guilt of leaving his family. He really does not understand about depression. He is scared that the way he feels now is going to be forever. <P>It is really hard to explain. I just know in my heart that I cannot allow him to continue to live with this woman and work on our relationship at the same time. It is just too confusing. If he picks her,fine. I don't plan on filing for divorce right away. I will however remove myself from being his crutch. I never wanted to be the fall-back plan. As I said before, I'm not expecting him to come right back home and resume normal life. This will be a long hard road but I think it will be a worthwhile one too. <P>If anyone ever needed a wake-up call, it was me and him. We were not existing in a healthly relationship and there have been times I have seriously doubted my love for him too. However, this whole process has shown me my true love for him. Not because I need a man, but because I want him to BE that man. <P>I told him I was sorry that I had to be stubborn about the affair ending. If it truly only started 2 weeks ago, I would expect it to be easier to break now than waiting several months. I really can't say. Haven't been in that position yet and shouldn't offer my opinion on that one.<P>This has given me a newfound respect for those on this board who are trying to Plan A and whose spouses are still living with OW/OM. I have been strong so far, but I know my limits and there is no way I will be able to follow Plan A if the affair doesn't end. It would all seem so fake. I know it shouldn't be about him but it should be about me. BUT I also know I would do more damage to our relationship long term if I continued to allow him to "play married" to me and "play house" with her. I may seem strong willed and controlling here but I can also be a smart A$$ when I'm ticked off. I don't mean to, it just happens. <P>I have made my decision and I feel good about it. I'm not saying it is forever, just what I have to do for now to keep my sanity. He has shown little or no effort to do anything positive towards our marriage. There comes a time when a decision has to be made and this is that time for me. If he thinks she can make him happy, let her be there for him. I simply cannot accept it.<P>I used the example of an alcoholic tonight with him. I said that his affair was a type of addiction just like alcohol or drugs and that once the problem was acknowledged and a change was desired to be made, it would not be ok to have 1 more beer or 1 more shot of tequila. There has to come a time where the long term desires of his life take precendent over the short term pleasures. I'm the long term, she's the short. <P>As you often say Mike, "That's just me" Thanks for sharing your opinions and concerns. It really means alot to me. I doubt I would have been so strong today without your constant reminders that I am a good person and that I will be ok, no matter what.<P>Lynn

I forgot to add that he said he really wanted to get caught. Sounds strange huh? Remember when I posted that he had thrown me his keys and asked me to bring his truck around about 2 weeks ago? He expected me to see the car key then and ask him about it. I never did. When I mentioned this to him today, during a conversation about the truth always coming out, he said "How many times have I ever volunteered to let you drive my truck?" He was hurt because I didn't question him about the key.<P>Strange story. I thought at the time, it was wierd for him to ask me to move the truck, but I thought he just slipped up and forgot about the key. <P>At least he knows now that I did notice.<P>Good night all. Or good morning I guess, it's 4 am !<P>L

Hi peoplepleaser,<P>You handled that just great. I did nearly the same thing when we discused it for the first time...said the same things. He also said she meant nothing to him. I found out much later that he was shacked up with her the whole time, and he just left that little detail out. So I don't want to put a "mozz" on you, but for your sake, DO NOT take what he says to you as gospel.<P>My h said he had ended it before Xmas. We got back together. February he goes away and I get harrassing calls from her, calling herself his girlfriend, didn't know where he was. So she's mad at him and took it out on me. But when I told him, he said no, he had finished it, rah, rah, rah. I am pretty sure now he's left that it never ended at all. I never would have believed my man could be so deceitful. <P>Just be careful, okay, really careful...<P>I'm sorry, but having been there, I just wanted to point this out.<P>

peoplepleaser..<P>I am very impressed with the way you handled the situation. I am a BS too and his behavior is very similar to my wife's attitude after discovery. Are you both separated now? <P>The main issue here is about the WS placing themselves in a situation in which an affair was likely to happen. If he wanted to show you that he was dedicated to your relationship, he would have NEVER moved into a place with this lady. It doesn't matter if they were "roommates" or not, he still put himself in a vulnerable position.<P>I wish you the best.<P>Bryan<BR><P>------------------<BR>BJK

Ok, a quick update. He's been here 8 hours and I have yet to have an answer on whether he is moving out of house with OW. He says he hasn't seen her. Yeah right!<P>Anyway, after about an hour this AM of avoiding me and getting the kids ready to go shopping, I finally go find him in the yard and tell him I wish he could be a little more considerate of my feelings. The past two nights have been the 2 hardest of my life. <P>Anyway, he comes in and still offers no answers. He says that I'm his soul mate and he is so confused because if he can't be happy with me, he doesn't think he will ever be capable of being happy with anybody.<P>With tears in his eyes, he begs me to go shopping with them. I had previously said I wasn't going because it was too confusing to do "family" things. He really wanted me to go and help with the clothes. After inspecting my son and finding H had put his sister's tweety bird Christmas socks on him, I thought it might be best if I did go.<P>Spent the day watching him spend money on me and kids. If I had of wanted anything, I think all I had to do was ask. Why then could I not just say, I want our marriage to be a priority and get an agreeable answer. <P>We went to movies, out to eat and to 4-5 stores for the kids at the mall. Then swung by Wal-mart for socks and undies. Guess what? Some idiot hit the side of my van in the parking lot and drove off. It messed up the rear light, caved in the quarterpanel and cracked the bumper.<BR>They didn't even leave a note and the security guard on duty was more inept than Barney Fife. All he wanted to do was argue with me that it was a private lot and that Wal Mart was not responsible, therefore I would have to settle it with the insurance co. DUH? All I wanted to know was if someone witnessed it and filed a report. Really pisses me off. <P>Now, H is outside with kids catching grasshoppers. He wants me to go fishing with them this evening. <P>Where do a draw the line? I'm really starting to get ill with him because he just pretends everything is so wonderful. He said, I'm sorry about your van. Well it's half his van too. <P>Anyway, still don't know anything but my walls are starting to get higher. I want, need and deserve an answer. <P>Lynn <BR>