Hi all! Rather than use Bryan's thread (and my thanks Bryan), maybe this might be a good way to collect together those people who are in the midst of surviving, survived and getting on after an abusive relationship.<P>I finally had the courage to leave an abusive marriage after 20 years. It took COURAGE and is now taking strength to continue living a life that I should have been living long ago. A life filled with respect, dignity, love... need I continue?<P>The internet was my lifeline for a very long time as I sat quietly in my abusive marriage. When I finally had the courage to say *ENOUGH*, my husband at that time knew that in order to stay married he had to become a partner in our marriage. He took the initiative (after I told him that I was done doing EVERYTHING) and found a counsellor (I knew that if I picked one, he/she would NEVER be good enough). We went -- me willingly, he begrudgingly because he *had* to go to keep the marriage together. The first time the counselor asked him if my husband *heard* what I was saying -- he told her to [censored] off and walked out of the office. (that was our second visit and he never returned after that) I sat there...scared and apprehensive...and worried about what to do next. The counselor stared at me. I stayed...and I started talking like I never talked before. As for my husband -- he never changed and became an EX. After he filed for divorce, and I started really looking around, I discovered that he had many women on the side during our marriage. I was oblivious to it all as I raised our children and supported him in his business endeavours. The most humiliating thing I had to do was to go for AIDS testing after I discovered he told all these women he was *safe* and didn't need to wear a condom! I was dealing with a relationship ending because of abuse only to discover his unfaithfulness throughout the whole marriage.<P>I remember promising myself that I would do EVERYTHING I could to keep my marriage together. I did -- no regrets. I learned and I was blessed. I learned that sometimes you have to let go of a toxic relationship. I learned that the only person you can be responsible for is yourself. I learned that the only actions you can control are your own. I also learned that God never left me even when I thought I was all alone. Some days God had me look at the lessons over and over again until I finally *got* it. But I did, nonetheless. It was painful -- it is still painful -- it will forever be painful. The difference is I forgave MYSELF...and I working on forgiving my ex.<P>Marriage is one in which BOTH work together on a partnership treating eachother with respect and love. I never had that, but then again I learned that it isn't an impossible thing to achieve for some. Maybe one day I will find that. I am one of the lucky ones. I'm still here to live and talk about it...and I'm here to look at each day and thank God for the opportunity of living yet another day!<P>As for me right now...I am working on that forgiveness and working with co-parenting with an abusive ex-partner. Those of you in that same position KNOW what it's like! Therefore I invite you to tell us all your story and things that have worked for you and things that haven't worked for you! I for one want to know how you are "LIVING AFTER THE ABUSE"!<P>Elan<P>

<BR>My story is here and there among my posts. I've been coming here since July 2000, when I first left my STBX (for a week) and have been fairly regular here since I left for good in December.<P>Physical abuse is bad, thank goodness I didn't have to deal with anything severe, but the pain from the years of emotional/verbal/mental abuse is still very much a part of me ... I wouldn't even call them 'scars' yet because they have not healed. It takes but an innocent comment to feel like there is salt in an open wound. I can barely stand to hear a man in public raise his voice to a woman without cringing. Not even on TV where I should be able to tell myself it isn't real.<P>Yet I've been able to go on and love again, and time does heal some wounds. My self-image is still terrible. I'm 36-28-36, 130# and 5'6 and think I'm 'fat'. Men tell me I'm beautiful but I see 'ugly' when I look in the mirror. Eight months away from him and I still feel 'worthless' and 'ignorant' sometimes.<P>The only time I can feel proud of myself is when I realize that my children no longer have to pretend they are not paying attention when their daddy calls their mommy names, and they don't have to cling to me when he yells. <BR>

you what I noticed lately? My dog (huge golden retriever) doesn't hide under the kitchen table anymore! ha ha! But as soon as a voice is raised, or someone is yelling (yep..you got it..on TV!) she retreats under the table. <P>God Bless you T-L-C. As for the self-esteem..it does improve in time, but it's *you* that does all the work.

Hi Elan,<P>Over on the Emotional Needs board, I wrote a thread called, "A Poll You Never Want To Be a Part Of - Were You Ever Sexually Abused?" and it was AMAZING how much abuse came out on that thread. In the end, there were over 100 replies to that thread, and it had gone from past sexual abuse to current spousal abuse.<P>In my case, for 20 years I was married to a man who I knew in my heart was hurting me, but never called it abuse. I kept much of what was happening a secret, and not on purpose. I just thought it wasn't important, and it certainly never occured to me that it was abuse. <P>I have, over the last three years, begun to talk about it. I began with my doctor, and he sent me to a therapist, and then I stopped all of it-- I believe it was because I didn't want to deal with the truth of it. When I described my then-H pulling me out of the car by my hair, or chasing me down the street in his car, or slapping my hand as I reached out to him, or calling me a pig... a million little things that didn't add up to abuse in MY MIND -- well, the hearer would be shocked. I would quickly say that he cried afterwards and said he was sorry, and it would never happen again -- and then I'd make a mental note not to talk to that person again. The problem with those blasted therapists is that they make notes and I was no longer able to hide. And one story would add onto another story, and before I knew it, I had a book of stories. Some stories I had forgotten.<P>I came here (to MB) two years ago, as a WS, although my then-H had cheated on me several times. He punished me in ways that seemed harsh but I deserved it because I was a cheater {that's what I told myself}. So, when he towered over me in the kitchen, me in the fetal position on the floor... it seemed like the proper thing to do. In the end, he cheated a few more times for good measure... and cried after, telling me it wouldn't happen again. <P>Then I left him. I didn't just leave him either - I am nothing if not dramatic -- I left with a bang.<P>I had filed for divorce, and I did the cardinal no-no and met someone before the divorce was final. So, I left my 20 year marriage, and my then-H, for someone else. Some have said, because the divorce was not yet final, that it was an affair. Certainly, my ex called it that... it made everyone feel sorry for him, that's for sure. I was the bad one, I was the one who left this poor crying heap of a man high and dry, I was now the "abuser" <P>The man I left him for is now my H, and he is completely safe and warm. He is a wonderfully understanding and supportive man who treats me with the kind of love I thought did not exist.<P>My ex? Well, remorse and guilt doesn't quite describe what he's gone through over the last year. He has flogged himself in every way possible, and it hurts to watch. He's not learned a thing about honesty or what it means to be a good mate, and I've watched him play games with the women in his life. <P>There is a part of me that feels sorry for him -- and there's a part of me that doesn't.<P>As for me, I have some baggage that I'm still carrying and my H has to gently circumvent on occasion. I am usually "waiting for the other shoe to drop" whenever I make a request or say something... habit, I guess. Over and over again my H tells me that I'm safe here, that my words, my thoughts, are respected -- and that I am cherished, and never will have to worry about being slapped, or mocked, or put down.<P>It is, in a word, amazing.<P>And sometimes, even still, hard to believe.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Nyneve (edited August 14, 2001).]

Nyneve<P>So much of what you say is soooooooooo familiar to me. I am working on things and have met a wonderful man (after the divorce -- I'd better say that before I'm strung up and hung to dry! lol). Strange how people don't look at the logistics of the legalities. It took 3 years for me to get divorce papers. My ex already had a girlfriend living with him, yet I was judged as a *whore* because a gentleman friend came to take me out for dinner. Talk about double-standards.<P>It's the *surviving* that interests me. It's been three years, yet I still blame myself for my ex treating me like sh*t. I know...deep down inside that there is nothing I could have done different. I guess that's why I'm here, so I can hear all the success stories. The saddest part is these men are not capable of nurturing a relationship. (Oh yes I can hear the collective "but you were married for 15, 20, 25 years.....") Granted...we WERE. But who was the one that kept the relationship together while the other person had a free ride?<P>I've done a lot of reading on these boards. Read the pain of others, and nodded a "I hear yah!" to many of the comments. For my ex, his job was done when he put that ring on my finger. To this date he still believes that marriage is a *prize* and not a *work in progress*. It sounds Nyneve<BR>like your work in progress is very supportive of you and your past. :-) Thanks so much for letting me know that marriage is possible after a battle such as ours.

Nyneve,<BR>I'm so happy for you. Its encouraging to know there is someone that will respect and love you again. Physical abuse leaves bruises, sometimes scars, eventually heals and the pain subsides, but emotional abuse can leave years of scaring on the heart and soul. No human should ever have to go through the humiliation of mental abuse. It hurts deeply and takes years to heal.<P>My girls and I can actually talk about problems without the name calling, yelling and blaming. It is so peaceful around my house. There is only noise of laughter and joy. Now if I even raise my voice, they think it is screaming. Life is actually fun again and I can spend as much time at the grocery store, shopping or be late from work without having someone question me a hundred times and acuse me of being somewhere I wasn't. If I get caught in traffic and I'm late, I don't shake anymore when I walk in the door. I don't have to explain every minute of my whereabouts. <P>Life is good for me and I am having a blast with my 2 teenage daughters and their friends. I'm trying my best to forget about the past and learn how to date and have fun. I can actually have friends now, which before were looked down upon. I can make decisions on my own and work in the yard until midnight if I want and not be ridiculed about my flower garden. I can work out as much as I want and relieve stress. I can talk on the phone without it being tapped. I can voice my opinion without being called stupid or dumb. I can now take a compliment without thinking negatively about it. I can actually smile at men and not think I have done anything wrong. I can do whatever I want and I don't feel guilty anymore.<P>Keep up the positive posts, I'm an optimistic, not a pessimistic!!!!!!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nyneve:<BR><B> The man I left him for is now my H, and he is completely safe and warm. He is a wonderfully understanding and supportive man who treats me with the kind of love I thought did not exist.<P>As for me, I have some baggage that I'm still carrying and my H has to gently circumvent on occasion. I am usually "waiting for the other shoe to drop" whenever I make a request or say something... habit, I guess. Over and over again my H tells me that I'm safe here, that my words, my thoughts, are respected -- and that I am cherished, and never will have to worry about being slapped, or mocked, or put down. It is, in a word, amazing. And sometimes, even still, hard to believe. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>Sheryl, <P>Your post just made me cry and cry. I have often wondered if "safe and warm" was just a pipedream or a goal for which we strive, but we never really get there. You know what I mean? I wonder to myself if I am wishing for something unrealistic or impossible. Is it really possible to be with someone who is loving, safe, gentle and respectful? Gosh, that seems like 1,000 miles away!<P>There have been days, even within this week, that I knew darn well what I was walking into--I KNEW the other shoe was going to drop--and yet I went anyway. I feel like I should have been stronger and stayed away. I should have stood up for myself and done what I knew would be best for me, but I didn't. And lo and behold, the other shoe dropped. <P>In my heart, I know that if the day ever comes, I will need to hear it a thousand times before I REALLY start to believe it: you are safe here, your words and thoughts are respected -- you are cherished and never will have to worry about being slapped, or mocked, or put down. In some ways, I doubt if I will ever, EVER really believe it enough to trust it. That just seems so far away. Sooo...I am crying. Wow! You really got me.<P>CJ <P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

WOW, you guys really GOT ME!<P>I just heard from CJ offlist and wrote a long email, and my H is just about to go to work, so I am pressed for time at this moment.<P>Just know that I read your lovely comments, and that what I've written above is TRUE.<P>We are ALL worthy of love, and it would be REALLY REALLY nice if we could get it from our spouses. Unfortunately, some spouses are NOT SAFE... sigh... and for those of us with the double or triple whammy of having been abused as children... well, you can just expect to have to hear the words a thousand times before you believe it.<P>I am blessed, and I know it, with my second H.<P>And yes, in case you wonder, there are days, even still, when I wonder why my first H couldn't just love me and help save our marriage. But those days come less and less now... and every time my H says he loves me... every time he reaches out to me instead of slapping me away... every time he calls me "just because"... each time I come closer and closer to believing it is possible to be loved just because I am me.<P>I am a sap -- and it feels SOOOOOOOOO GOOOOOOOOOOD.

Nice thread, and so nice to hear of the progress we make when we decide enough is enough. It's been over a year since stbx left us, since April when I had enough of trying anymore. <P>There is life, and love, after an abusive relationship! Yes, I dated a few men, 3 to be exact, am friends with 2 and in a serious relationship with the third. All 3 of these guys were kind, gentle men who are concerned about me and the girls. That in itself was strange; the girls and I weren't quite sure how to deal with it. Yes, I have buttons that are easily set off and am working through that at the moment. <P>I have to say that in this house now, we are having a wonderful time. We laugh, we have conversations, we are living! Oh, and my big dog has quit slinking about, too!<P>I still have a long way to go, have called about support groups to work with, doing counseling, but I know that the girls and I are doing better than we have in many, many years.<P>Lori

Hey Lori!<P>Didn't see you wayyyyyyyy down here. Nice ta meetcha! <P>You were talking about the *buttons*. Yep! I know all about those! I've got LOTS of them myself! lol The one thing I found is I stop, breathe, and then ask myself (this is of course AFTER my button was pushed and I didn't handle the situation quite the way I wanted to)...I ask myself WHY? I disect the problem.<P>The one thing I learned through counselling is to challenge my beliefs. It is like re-programming your thoughts. Think about the situation, how did it make you feel? why do you think it made you feel that way? is it a true perception? how could I have handled it differently? what will I do the next time?<P>I find the more I step back from my ex, the easier the *together* gets. I get stronger in time so when I have the unavoidable face-to-face contact (mostly telephone) I can handle it.<P>Like I said...nice ta meetcha!

Hi Elan,<P>I just dropped by to show you that I DID post here too!!!<P>You said on Nellie's thread that you wanted me to post here... and I **have** (See me up there ^ yeah, up there about two posts ago!!)<P>Best wishes,<P>Sheryl

Hey Sheryl!<P>I saw you! Honest I did! <grin> I just didn't want you disappearing off the face of the earth over this! Glad to have you aboard!<BR> hee hee

I'm chiming in on this thread prematurely. I'm still under the same roof with my H. I'd like very much to join the ranks of you who have survived verbal and emotional abuse and gathered the gumption to move on. I've spent two years asking myself what direction to take. I've made a decision that further effort to reach my H is fruitless. Now I need a plan. I hope it's not impolite of me to dilute the topic of this thread. I'm very much in need of assistance as I develop a plan for dissolving a 14-year relationship. <P>A description of things last weekend are in the women's bible study forum at <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum25/HTML/000957.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum25/HTML/000957.html</A> <P>Another thread that gives a rather verbose description of my situation is in emotional needs under a title of "portrait of my marriage" (posted in June or July). I applaud each and every one of you for leaving behind the familiar, facing the unknown, and finding something better. Please give me some clues on how you did it!

Counselling....and LOTS of it!<P>It wasn't a decision that I made lightly. Leaving a partner or spouse has effects that last a LIFETIME. And I mean a LIFETIME.<P>COUNSELLING....COUNSELLING....COUNSELLING<P>I would urge you strongly to really make sure that this is what you want. I read over your post and quite frankly had a lot to say..... but you know what? The best thing for you that I would recommend is to seek counselling -- WITH YOUR HUSBAND -- and without. <P>I for one never wanted to EVER look back and wonder if I made the right decision. I KNOW I made the right decision. Good luck.

lonesome heart,<BR>I feel for you, get a plan, for me emotional withdrawal from the OS was the last step for me. I'll tell you from my experience, I had to leave because I was the one that had the affair and I was afraid for my safety at that point. He begged me to come back, but I held strong because I KNEW and ACTUALLY BELIEVED I had suffered emotional abuse during the 16 yrs of our marriage and it would be twice as bad if I went back. I made the choice TO LEAVE because I was not going to be ridiculed, belittled or abused ever again by that man. Yes I left my girls with him, it hurt more than the abuse I had endured all those years. They are probably the only reason I didn't commit suicide. <P><BR>Did I have a plan? no<BR>How was I going to make it on my own, I had never lived by myself before? didn't know<BR>How was I going to pay child support if I wasn't even sure if I could make it on my own? didn't know<BR>How was I going to pay half of our credit card debt of $23,000? I didn't know<BR>How was apt living going to be? didn't know<P>When I look back, I did what I thought was the best decision at the time. Here are a few things that may help(remember I'm from Texas and the law states "community property", split 50%/50%)<P>1) if you have any stocks in your name cash them in without him knowing, hide the money<BR>2) hoard any money from the checking account that you can if it is a joint account, hide the money<BR>3) take money out of savings, hide the money<BR>4) if your credit cards are joint accounts check into how you can keep him from maxing them out<BR>5) make sure you have all his keys to your car<BR>6) take all your jewelry and anything that was given to you as a present<BR>7) keep in mind, if he stays in the house, he could change the locks<BR>8) take the car that is in better condition<BR>9) get it tuned up, new tires, etc. just before you leave<P>Looking back, I should have told him to leave, I could have kept the house, but I wouldn't have been able to make the payments. I would have sold it and with the profit put down on another house. I have had to get a 2nd job as a waitress at a nice steak house. I work 2 nights a week and Sunday mornings, bring in about $850 - $1000 extra a month, not too shabby. My girls are old enough 16 & 15 that they can fend for themselves in the evening which helps.<P>Believe me, you can make it, I did - and so have countless other people on this site!!!! <P>Was it lonely by myself? yes<BR>Was I afraid of the unknown? yes<BR>Was I exhausted from working 2 jobs? yes<P>After a year and a half, I have bought a house and my girls live with me, I still work 2 jobs but I'm used to it. I'd rather loose a few hours of sleep than be broke all the time!!!!!! It takes a strong person to get out and break the cycle of abuse. If you search the internet you can find info on preparing to leave a marriage to protect yourself. Good luck, keep us posted.<P><BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lonesome heart:<BR><B>I applaud each and every one of you for leaving behind the familiar, facing the unknown, and finding something better. Please give me some clues on how you did it!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It was the hardest thing when my ex first left. I would call him every night and beg him to come sleep with me. He would. The second time he left (we separated three times in about a years time), I called him less... and by the third time, I didn't want him in my bed.<P>Being alone is so hard when you're used to being joined at the hip. I didn't have a clue how to "be alone", since I'd married him before ever living alone (same with him). But one day I realized that I'd been alone much of my marriage -- even though he was there. <P>It was then that I realized I could do it. <P>I don't know any magic formula to make it easier, it simply takes time.<P>(((((lonesome heart)))))<p>[This message has been edited by Nyneve (edited August 16, 2001).]

Thank you Elan, elliott45, nyneve, for your replies. Elan, I've been in counselling since last November. In December I had access to some temporary housing free of charge, and I moved out for a month (H didn't know it was limited duration from the get-go). H said he wanted to make things better. He agreed to counselling. He went for 4 months. If you think I need counselling now... you shoulda seen me before counselling! LOL<P>E45, I'm in Texas too! Been here 4 years now. Well, I've unequivocally hijacked this thread now. I have some dilemmas to contemplate and I'm starting a new thread 'living during the abuse.' I'd sure like to hear from y'all again.

Hey lonesome heart!<P>I think a new thread is a great idea...especially one with *living THROUGH the abuse*. We still all have some issues (even if some of us are out of the marriage). Any and ALL ideas are welcome! With me...my ex and I share three wonderful children, but I'm still co-parenting with a jerk! Any ideas in that area would be welcome!<P>Night all! see ya'll tomorrow!