Hi everyone, I don't post on this forum much. My usual spot is over on the Infidelity Forum. I did happen to read through the thread "I don't love my husband anymore," and it all seemed so familiar. <P>My H and I will be married 16 years in July. Last year, I found out my H had an affair. At the time, it was a shock to me, but after careful reflection, counseling and a lot of deep conversations with my H, I don't see why I was so shocked. Like some of you have described, at the time leading up to his affair, there'd been virtually no affection between us. We weren't doing things together as a couple anymore, and we rarely talked (at least not about anything profound). <P>Our marriage didn't get into this condition overnight. Looking back, I can honestly say that I think I began to fall out of love with him in 1990 or so. Why did I fall out of love with him? Well, let me share the short list. Frankly, my H was an "A-hole". A prime A-Hole. He was the most stubborn person I'd ever known. He was selfish, often spent $ on himself and preferred to be alone. I practically had to drag him to family outings and events. He was thoughtless. (An example, one Christmas while shopping for gifts, I was telling him some of the things I wanted, he was too tired to continue, so handed me a wad of cash and told me to just go buy my own gift. Nice guy, huh? ) He was a nag and complained incessantly about finances (as if it were only my fault), household work (as if I was the only one responsible for it), car maintenance, you name it! He refused to open up to me and share his feelings with me. He would always avoid any conflict by leaving the room, or walking out of the house. A few times during arguments he even went so far as to leave for an entire day. Every conflict resulted in an angry outburst from him. He never physically abused me, but he did verbally abuse me by cursing me on many occasions.<P>I did say I was giving you the short list, right? So, I'll stop there. I'm sure you get the picture. For a long time, I thought that if I kept giving, he'd eventually see the light and change. But after years of this mistreatment, I finally shutdown myself and completely withdrew from him. As I said, from about 1990 - 1997 (the year he had a 4 month affair), we may have averaged sex 3-4 times a year during that entire time span. It was customary for us to go 6-8 months without, then maybe do it a couple of times a week or so until we got up to our quota. I'd built up a big sexual aversion to him. It didn't repulse me, but I found it completely unsatisfying and just didn't think it was worth the trouble.<P>Sorry this is so long. But I wanted to illustrate how badly my marriage had deteriorated. My H had an affair because he longed for a woman's physical touch and response to him. I couldn't fulfill that need because of the deep resentment I'd built up. We were caught in a catch-22. He pushed me away so far that I just couldn't give to him anymore, and he had an affair because he felt neglected! It's ironic, but those are the facts.<P>But let me tell you how things are now. We now have a better marriage than ever before! It is strong, loving and fulfilling in every way (yes, even sexually). When I found out about his affair, the proverbial crap hit the fan, and I insisted we go for counseling. He agreed without hesitation and has been completely remorseful from day one. But that's not the remarkable part. Ever since that fateful day when I confronted him and he confessed, he has been a completely changed and new man! He is open, and honest, and shares his feelings with me. It's still difficult for him to face conflict, but he no longer runs from our problems and he faces them like a real man. We talk all the time, deep, heartfelt conversations about feelings, hopes and dreams. We spend all of our free time together because we have become each other's best friend again. We share affection, and we share intimacy, both physical and emotional. All those years I tried and thought I could change him didn't work. It took him wanting to change to do it.<P>Love in a marriage can be restored. But it can only be restored when both people really want it and when both people are really committed to it. Many of you are in the exact same position I was in years ago. And there was no way our marriage could go anywhere because my H refused to make changes. Sadly, his affair was the crisis to get him to see the light. But I don't think an affair has to be the crisis that does this, sometimes other crises can give wake up calls too, but unfortunately, it does appear that sometimes people just don't get it until they hit rock bottom.<P>If I had things to do all over again, I'd do things differently. I wouldn't sit idly by and watch my marriage deteriorate again. But, I also wouldn't continue to bang my head up against a brick wall (unwilling spouse) either. I guess I'd create a crisis if I had to. I very well might leave and file for divorce. Because I do think in my case, this might have been the wakeup call my H needed. And I would have done it like I said back in 1990, instead of wasting another 8 years in a subpar marriage.<P>Now, I'm not advising anyone to go out and file for divorce to wake up your spouses. But I am saying that I would have preferred that to waiting for my H (or maybe even myself) to have an affair. I wouldn't be a sitting duck again. It was a complete waste of time, and like it's been said, life is too short.<P>A loving, successful marriage isn't going to just happen, you have to make it happen. Both spouses have to put in at least equal effort. When this happens, the reward is more than I could ever fully describe. <P>------------------<BR>No one said this (life) was going to be easy.<P><p>[This message has been edited by LaurieC (edited May 27, 1999).]

laurie,<P>Thanks for sharing that story. So there is hope! I am really happy for you and your husband. You both are getting what you need in life! Bottom line is a relationship is the most important part of life, (a quality one). I agree that it is imperative that BOTH people have to be willing to work together! This is the problem for me, and many of the people I have been reading about. Just cannot do it alone!<P>It is amazing and encouraging that he went to a total insensitive A-hole to a more open and giving man! Hummmmmmmmm.....nice!

Laurie........<P> Thank you for your post. I am so glad to hear that some couples get a new start and love again. In my case though hon its been 2 years and nothing has come back for me. I have tryed and still nothing. I just feel deep down this might sound mean but that I would be better with another someday. I mean more in common,love etc. My hubby now does not even try to surprise me with anything. If ever we do things with the kids its always me that plans it. He always assumes and has always been like that. I just feel deep down that our communication that we never had in almost 15 years was never there. In fact the threapist told us that. She said his drinking when he did drink was only part of the problem. He has never been romantic and about the sex thats another long story. I am still here just for my kids sake because I don't want to hurt anybody cause I know what it feels like. We cannot even have a converstaion for more then 5 mins unless its about the kids. OR arguing. Pretty said huh what a couple strangers living together. If we go out alone OMG nothing is hardly even said. Or we act like brother and sister. Hope you all don't think this is cold but deep down thats how I feel. And still pray that one of these days God will let me find the happiness I so want to find. Even for him to be happy again. And I don't think that is suppose to be with me. Well take care all. Thanks for all your comments even though I still am lost.

dlara,<P>Yes, it is amazing, and if it hadn't happened right before my eyes, I'd have never believed it. Before the explosion my finding out about my H's affair caused, he was still stuck in his stubborness with a big wall all around him. But when he was exposed, that wall came tumbling down like the Berlin wall! He didn't have anything to hide behind anymore. When I call him an A-hole, that isn't exactly accurate. He was a good person, a great guy in everyone else's eyes, a good provider and dependable...... but as a relationship partner/spouse, he was an A-hole because he didn't know the meaning of the words openness and honest or how to give. And the worse part about it was, he thought it was okay to be this way. I tried and tried to tell him what I needed from him and how a relationship needs openness and honesty, but he flat out refused saying he couldn't change, and that I had to accept him as is. I did, but I hated every minute of it, and frankly, I had begun to resent him almost to the point of hate. Like I said I could have written what you and Wonder are saying almost verbatim just a little over a year ago. But now, my life is 1000% improved because my H has turned his own life around because he was afraid of losing me and everything he had.<P>Wonder,<P>I'm sorry you are lost. But nothing anyone else can write or say is going to get you out of your situation. Only you can do that. The reason things haven't gotten better for 2 years is because you are trying to do it alone without your H's help. He needs to be 100% committed to rebuilding your marriage and restoring your love too. But, truthfully, it doesn't sound like you are really that committed either. It sounds like you have already given up on him and any chances of being in love with him again. I read the entire thread that GS wrote, and I saw some of the harsh things others were saying to you, and I know you didn't like it. But I also want to tell you that you and only you are responsible for your own happiness. Your H may very well be an A-hole like mine was, but you know what? I made the choice to stay with him in that unfulfilling relationship for all those years, and I cannot blame anyone but myself for the years lost. I made the choice. At the time, like you, I thought I was doing the right thing. But if I knew then what I know now, I'd have issued him an ultimatum of counseling, or goodbye. Point blank. I am 36 years old, will be 37 in July. I am sickened by all the years of my youth that I wasted in a subpar marriage and relationship, and I can never get those years back. I love my H with all my heart, but I shouldn't have allowed myself to stay in a relationship where my needs weren't getting met for so long. I am lucky in that everything has worked out, praise God, but I still would give anything to have created a crisis earlier, before things had the chance to deteriorate to the point of my H having an affair. This was something I would have gladly avoided.<P>You can take control of your own life. It's scary, but you can do it. I'm aware that you have young children, but you must think of yourself and your future. You will never be able to get these years back, and one day your children will be grown with families of their own, and who will be there for you then? Your H is the one who should be, but if you allow your resentment to continue to build up, you won't even want him to be. You do need to think about that. I'm not saying you should pack your bags and up and leave your H, that would be very unwise. But I do think that maybe you need to start playing hardball. By that, I mean you need to point blank tell him that you cannot and will not remain in a subpar marriage and that if he will not get some counseling with you, you will begin taking steps to remove yourself from the marriage. Sure, he may blow you off, you know him best, but you may just be surprised by his reaction. He may finally wake up and listen to you and at least agree to start doing his part. If he refuses, then be ready to follow through with your ultimatum. And that is about all you can do, but the choice is yours, and the choice is his.<P>We all need to do what is right for ourselves in our own situations. But after we do that and make our choices, we only have ourselves to blame or credit for our outcomes.<P>------------------<BR>No one said this (life) was going to be easy.<P>

Laurie.........<P> I know its me who has to do for me now. You want me to be honest really honest. I don't want him anymore. I am not in love with him and he does not make happy. He has tryed he quit drinking but by then my feelings deteroiated. Write more later.

Laurie.............<P> I had another person say this earlier to me in another forum. They said sometimes you just drift so far apart that there is no where to start again to get it back. You understand what I am saying? I am about your age so I know in those years too what have missed out on. We did go to thereapy together about 3 times and all it did was bring up more hurt. I myself was so depressed that went for a year alone. I am still on meds and I hate it.Have you ever felt good about your spouse telling you for them to be spotaneous or romantic that they felt like they were being tested or graded? Well thats the kind of response I got so I gave up. I know it takes both to work on it. But you also to me have to feel some kind of love for them besides like a brother. You understand? I know too what I want to do its the timing I am working on for me for once. I need to be at peace with myself. And be sure but then again if it comes down to I made a mistake I figure cannot feel any lonlier then I do now. Well thats all I have to say about it thanks for the post replys back.

Wonder,<P>Listen to me, YES I do know what you mean. I know exactly what you mean. I had only feelings of brotherly sisterly love with my H for years! I kid you not. My H is a very handsome man, and other women would always tell me how handsome he was, that he was a hunk, etc, etc, and I swear to you, I'd look at him and go, "huh?" Because I just couldn't see him in that way anymore. He had become my brother, and you don't look at your own brother and think, "wow, what a fox!" That would be disgusting, incestual, and that is how I felt about my H.<P>But not anymore. He has literally busted his butt to make me fall back in love with him. He does literally everything for me. As I type right now, he is in the kitchen cooking me breakfast. Last night, he brought me home some flowers, just because. So, no, things didn't just change out of the blue. He has made me love him again with his actions. He has become a man that I'd be an absolute fool not to be in love with. He is 360 degrees different than he ever was before. We attended counseling once a week for 6 months, and no, it wasn't always a picnic, and some very painful things were brought up and said, but we had to experience that pain in order to move forward. Both of us had to see what our relationship had become in order for us to really make up our mind that we didn't want to go that route ever again. When my H really got the chance to see what an A-Hole he had been, he didn't like it at all, and he has made every change possible to be a better man and a better H. I've done the same.<P>These are the types of things that must be done in order for love to come back. Just like Dr. Harley says (have you read this site, by the way? GREAT stuff here!) you have to deposit love units. Right now, your love bank sounds completely depleted. Your H needs to get off his duff and do something, and if he doesn't, then I'd take steps to remove myself from the situation. Life is too short, and you deserve some happiness. If you continue like this, you will continue to drift apart farther and farther, and frankly, I think you are setting yourself up for something horrible to happen. Either you or your H may even have an affair. You both sound pretty vulnerable right now. I'm sure your H needs love too.<P>Don't sit and wait for something bad to happen, that's all I'm saying. Take control of your life now. A sitting duck almost always gets shot, eventually. I'm speaking from experience here, don't let that happen to you.<P>------------------<BR>No one said this (life) was going to be easy.<P>

Laurie..........<P> Actually I have told spouse I think he needs another that can love him for who he is now not who he was. So if that happens so be it. Hon I have tryed hints thereapist gave him ideas etc. She told him he needs to whooo me all over again. Well in the first place he never whooed me he does not know how. He thinks being romantic and spontaneous is holding damn hands. Not to me. Like I said I have givin hints and nothing. SO I quit. I am going to get out of this situation but need another part time job first. But now that might have to wait for kids to get back to school. See for years he always complained about buying me b-day gifts etc. You know how that felt. It was like a damn chore to him. Now he askes and I don't want anything from him. Guess you get use to the other way so the rest means nothing now. I am sure that sounds mean but thats how I feel. I always got him nice things and never forgot the special days. I don't see my hubby as attractive either. I haven't for along time. Yes I am vulnerable but its to late for me. My thereapist once told me that some affairs are your band-aids that just fllling something you need right now. I thought well band-aids at least make you feel better for awhile. I never have gotton flowers just because kind of said being with the same person for almost 17 years counting dating huh? I know I sound hopless believe me thats how I feel to. Like I said my kids are my life right now and I think God has plans for me other ways. I hope this duck does not get shot down but like I said don't think can feel any lonier then I do. My hubby told me last weekend hes not in love with me either. I see this man I am married to and I don't even know him. I don't think I ever really did. Guess when they say love is blind thats no s---. People are like you said they look at him and think they see this great person I married. But for years they did not see what was behind closed doors. I always looked like the bad guy. I don't know what more I can say that you would like to know. I don't know if I would ever marry again beings what I have been through. Yeh life is to short and I say that if I were to go today I would go unhappy. And out of most things in this world that is the one thing I don't want. Well take care glad that you are happy you sound like you are a great person that he finally saw that.<BR> <BR>

Laurie/ I couldn`t agree with you more. You have given me new hope. I only need to get my wife thinking the same way. You could read one of my many posts of not in love. My wife is the one that fell out of love. No affairs for either of us, just took each other for granted. Right now she doesn`t acknowledge anything I do for her. I really don`t know if I should keep it up and continue doing things for her. She told me several weeks ago that she doesn`t think she could fall in love with me again. I think she is wrong. I think she has to try. At least give it the effort, I have been. Laurie I am real happy things are looking up for you and your husband.

Confused,<P>I don't mean to open up a can of worms, but are you sure that your W hasn't or isn't involved with someone else? I only ask because I find it very odd that you are trying and yet she is refusing. That doesn't seem logical to me. But it does seem logical if there is a third party in the picture.<P>I am not trying to stir things up or conjure bad images for you, but it sounds like there may be something or someone blocking those love units from getting to your W.<P>The reason my H's love units are getting to me is because I am accepting them. I think that if I had allowed myself to become involved or fall in love with someone else, I, too, may have acted like it's too late. The anger I felt about his cheating made me block him for a while, several months, but after I got to express my anger (constructively, mind you), I began to allow him to deposit love units. <P>I cannot emphasize counseling enough. It literally saved our marriage. My H in particular needed to have an objective 3rd party help him communicate with me because this had always been difficult for him. Now, we communicate extremely well and don't need a therapist any longer.<P>I feel for you. I don't know what else to tell you. Dr. Harley says to continue to deposit and eventually your spouse will fall in love again. It worked for us...... and lots of other couples too. I hope it works for you.<P>Wonder,<P>You sound so sad, I wish I could make you feel better. I am angry at your H, just like I was angry at the man my H used (thank God) to be. If he was still that man, I would have divorced him, without a doubt. I am enjoying my life now, and I could not imagine ever going back to that subpar life I used to have. Even just remembering those times sometimes still makes me angry, so I try to focus on the present and how he is being right now.<P>Like you, feeling loved and being in love is a need of mine. I think it stems from me being the youngest child, always needing attention and approval from those I love. Well, I let that need go unfulfilled for so many years and I could just shoot myself for doing that. I know that I am blessed that my H is fulfilling that need now. But I still cry for the years I went without. <P>I sincerely wish you the best and hope you find happiness. If that happiness is attainable with your H, all the better, but if not, then so be it. But I do know this, you deserve it, we all do.<P>------------------<BR>No one said this (life) was going to be easy.<P>

LaurieC,<P>I'm so happy for you I can hardly stand it! Things really sound like they're going great. Thanks so much for taking time to write us the encouraging notes.<P>I feel I've been too patient with my uncooperative wife and probably should have created a crisis or some kind of "wake up call" long ago because it feels like my empty marriage is killing me anyway. It's getting harder and harder to avoid wrongly accepting warmth offered innocently from other women as a potential beginning for a new intimate relationship--I just feel so desperate. It's awful. Your posts offer me some reason for hope. Thanks.<P>TD<p>[This message has been edited by TD (edited May 28, 1999).]

laurie, she says there is no one else in her life. She told me again the other night. She has nothing to loose by telling me. She also said she is leaving me and the kids in a month. She used to be such a family person. We always did everything together. Now she says she doesn`t want to do anything with me or the kids. She doesn`t want us asking what her plans are or where she has been. She wants only to make herself happy. She says now is her time. She says she spends some time alone and it is peaceful to her. She also goes and does things with one of her friends. This is such a complete turnaround from the way she always was. that is what is leading me to believe she is going through a mid like ordeal. I read about some women who said it completely changed there feelings. They hated the ones that they love. I am really stuck on what to do next.