I am a WS and OW. There was a time, not so long ago, when I was actually a decent person. I never cheated on anyone, not even as a teenager. I used to always put the needs of others before my own selfish desires. Three years ago, that changed.<P>I was a contributor to the destruction of two families. Though I am currently divorced, my husband never knew that I had been unfaithful to him. The wife of the OM found out, and tried to save her marriage, using the Harley methods. <P>My husband and I went to counseling for a year, but it did not help, largely because I was not honest about my affair. I wanted to deal with the other issues involved. Please understand that I am not justifying or making excuses. I was unfamiliar with the principles that I have since learned here, and was advised to not tell my husband. <P>Without being familiar with this site, I did some more damage. I never followed anyone, or called anyone, or tried to hurt anyone like some of the psycho women I hear about here. I did not initiate contact with the OM, but when he contacted me, I did respond. When his wife left him, I resumed contact.<P>Two divorces. The ex-spouses are on with their lives, doing better than they were with the two of us.<P>The OM showed me the Harley books, out of the desire to make our relationship work, and I found this website. Out of guilt, I have spent a year lurking, looking for signs that people feel better, that life is better for a BS after a divorce, something, anything to make me feel better. I have only felt more responsible, and less capable of righting my wrongs.<P>The disclosure of the affair never happened--I never told anyone about my affair. Out of shame for my behaviour, very few people even know that the OM and I are together today. We are both divorced, so on the surface it is "ok", but the guilt has never gone away. I never apologized to his wife, whom I knew and was friendly with. I have written apologies, but not sent them, for I know that any contact from me would be hurtful and selfish.<P>For two years, my OM has been faithful to me, but now he has resumed his pattern. Last night, while out of town, he ran into an old friend, the woman he cheated with the night before his wedding. (He cheated 4 times during their 7 year marriage, so I was duly warned.) The old friend kissed him, he didn't stop it. He confessed to me this morning, because he wants to be honest. He claims repentance, is writing a no contact letter and cutting his trip short to come home and get a counselor for himself. I am at a loss as to what to do. All I can think is, "I deserve worse." I deserve much worse.<P>For what it is worth, some of us eventually get a taste of our own foul medicine. Please, BS's out there, take comfort in that.<P>And for those of you suffering, I am so very sorry.

Shhhhh...be still. Be calm, and quiet. Lay down on the floor, and give it to God. Forgive yourself, and he will forgive you.<P>You are not unworthy, you squandered a gift, and now you are seeing that. Okay, so what to do about that? Are you wanting to try and fix this one? Maybe the next one? Or the one after that? (I'm not trying to be mean, here...you don't need any of that.) What I am trying to tell you is that you need to get to be your own best friend before you can be in a relationship successfully.<P>God calls us to be chaste...which does not mean celibate necessarily, but you might be a little ahead of yourself.<P>Personally, I'd end it with the guy, like yesterday. You are caught up in his mixed up version of realtionships...he is not to be trusted, this one.<P>And, BTW....psycho? Are we being a little judgemental here? Let your current wound fester for a while, then call us psycho...bet you won't be able to! Much of what you read is venting, and not ever acted upon, and when it is, it has much more to do with the pain of total rejection, not being psycho. You are being given a <I>gift</I> here, please try to realize that. Being quick to judge others is a sign of a lack of depth in your character, I am sorry to have to say that, but until you have lived the reality of the BS, you ought not to comment on it...but, then again you know that already, don't you?<P>I am sorry for your pain, you are a special child of God, no doubt. Talk to him, he is calling you. Take care, and may God grant you soms peace. -Mike

OOps, Mike!<P>I think she meant the OW psycho's out there who like my H's, called me and stalked me. Re-read, see what you think!!!<P>Other than that unworthygirl, mike has some good advice there for you. I can't add to it.<P>Nina

Yes, Jacky...you are correct...I had originally put something entirely different there..its late, and I'm pretty psyvho myself after tonight...I assumr\e that you haven't gotten 'round to your thread, where I <I>really went off</I>!<P>I apologize if I seemed harsh, I was actually trying for levity originally...whatever.<P>I found this one untouched, and that is not right. You are hurting, and that also is not right.<P>I had wanted to ask you if you thought about telling your XH. Do you have any contact with him at all? I'm not recommending it per se, but your post gives the impression to me that you feel it is not resolved, and you want closure.<P>I may be wrong (yet again...arrrggh!), but you went from lurker to poster for a reason...do you want closure, advice, venom...in short, what do you want? -Mike

If you want to make amends, I think the first step would be to cut of contact with the OM. A relationship founded in deceit will never be valid. The second step would be to confess to your ex-H. While my H was home during his affair, and after he left until discovery, I constantly felt like I was going crazy. Nothing made sense. I tried and tried to figure out what had gone wrong - after hearing his "explanations" I felt like I had been living in a parallel universe all these years. At least after discovery, I no longer felt like I was going insane.<P>For me, life is far from better, 2.5 years after he left. I love my H just as much today as I ever did, and I do not miss him any less. There is NO aspect of my life that is better - there is no silver lining. The affair has directly and indirectly resulted in horrible emotional damage and the complete financial destruction of our family. Two of our children say that he is no longer their father and are not speaking to him. He has lost the respect of three of the others, and even the youngest, who was little more than a baby when he left, misses him and always includes him in the pictures she draws of our family.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by waiting_for_her:<BR><B>I had wanted to ask you if you thought about telling your XH. Do you have any contact with him at all? I'm not recommending it per se, but your post gives the impression to me that you feel it is not resolved, and you want closure.<P>I may be wrong (yet again...arrrggh!), but you went from lurker to poster for a reason...do you want closure, advice, venom...in short, what do you want? -Mike</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thank you for your responses and kindness. <P>My ex and I do not speak, and had we paid attention in pre-Cana, we would not have married, we would have broken off the relationship. We should not have married, and if we had not married, perhaps I would not be here today. <P>What do I want? More than anything, I want to make all of my wrongs right. For a long time I have asked myself what I can do to atone, and no answer has come to me. When these events transpired, I thought perhaps, if I posted here, some people might feel better knowing about them.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nellie1:<BR><B>For me, life is far from better, 2.5 years after he left. I love my H just as much today as I ever did, and I do not miss him any less. There is NO aspect of my life that is better - there is no silver lining. The affair has directly and indirectly resulted in horrible emotional damage and the complete financial destruction of our family. Two of our children say that he is no longer their father and are not speaking to him. He has lost the respect of three of the others, and even the youngest, who was little more than a baby when he left, misses him and always includes him in the pictures she draws of our family. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Perhaps I should have mentioned that no children are involved, just selfish adults.

Unworthy.....We all make mistakes, some big, some little, amd often those mistakes affect others. Imagine the thousands of drivers out there who were driving a little too fast, or looked down at the radio, or daydreamed, or got sleepy, and then killed or maimed others in the subsequent "accident"....or the thousands of workers in industry who had an off day, got a little irresponsible, and someone (a customer, a co-worker) got injured...etc. etc....food service workers etcv. etc. the list is endless. <P>While we do assign socially a lot of "guilt" to the whole issue of interpersonal relationships...be it "abuse" for those who have anger issues to "homewreckers" for those who have affairs....it is all the same, just a matter of degree. Yes our choices affect others, often in pretty bad ways......So what to do? First one must forgive themself. (both inside, and by giving up the guilt to God). How does one do this? By making such amends as one can reasonably do. For some, this is by honesty with their spouse, and by giving spouse a fair chance at reconcilliation, if they so wish (that is where I am at, I am a ws). You didn't do that, so have the additional guilt of your deceit. Keep in mind that you had remorse, tried to fix your marriage, but fell into the trap of many, who think the secret doesn't matter, if one is "over" it. It does matter, there is never any valid reason not to tell. Often the ws thinks they are doing it for the spouses good, (they will be devastated blah blah blah), is all a lie of course, a ws only reason is to avoid the consequences (and I don't mean to them, but things like having to deal with the pain of the other, etc.).<P>IMO your feelings of unworthiness are valid, and arise from the unfinished business. Even though divorced, your husband will always have a psychological hole in his life because he doesn't fully understand the reasons behind a very significant portion of his existence. I think you realize that, I think we all inherently know such things. You also realize (correctly IMO) there are serious issues of whether you can ever be trusted by anyone, and that you are not therefore marriage material. You sound like a decent person. My suggestion would be to have counselling by the harley's. I suspect they will advise you to confess to H, and can help you do it in the best way, while also helping you sort yourself out. Life experiences should not be taken as a permanent injury. Being human means a capacity to learn from our mistakes, and be even better. I know I have made some mistakes in my A. My focus has been on understanding what happened to me, what I can do about it, what is an acceptable outcome to regain my integrity, and heal my wife. I have also taken the experience and done good things, such as help folks her understand the mind of a ws, have become much more informed about marriage, and relationships, have become much more able to advise young people on the nature of marriage etc. Who knows what good may come of these things? The A happened, one cannot go back, but how one goes forward makes all the difference in the world. I have felt very little guilt, this annoys some, including my wife a bit. But the thing is, guilt serves no purpose but to get your attention, wallowing in it is pointless. I am trying to do the right things (not gaurantee marriage to w, but gauarantee I will give reconcilliation a good faith try), ceased contact with ow, and have studied what happen to be sure I will never do it again, and I am comfortable I won't. You can do the same, counselling will help you be comfortable you fully understand your issues, and what happened, and how to go forward. Realize that you can and should love yourself, then others can and will love you too. Make such amends as are appropriate (and no, that does not mean paint a scarlet A on your forhead), maybe even give back something by volunteering where needed. Let this experience help you grow into a better person, not destroy you.<P>As for the om, have only your post to go on, but I have to say a serial affair person is bad news. He may be a "nice" guy, but he is a nice guy who has a serious personality disorder. You are not married to him (thank goodness), you should run away as fast as you can (NO CONTACT). Also search and read up on sociopathic personalities, and personality disorders, I suspect you will find him there. Such people are master manipulators, and even when they "mess" with us, we feel sorry for them, and want to "help" them get better. Marriage is difficult enough without you having to rehabilitate him before you even get started. It is RARELY worth the effort. You have fallen in a datk hole, your life is a shambles. But you can recover, IF you take the right steps. Even if (by some miracle) he is to be trusted, and you do fit, neither of you are anywhere near being ready for marriage. You should be even wary of much dating (and absolutely no sex) until you get yourself sorted out. My bet is that if you keep him at arms length for awhile, being friends, he will quickly fine a "new" woman who "understands", and "trusts" (gag) him. You think he was faithful for 2 years....I doubt it. Read here about being addicted to another person, and many other things, the key is to not try to do this alone, you are in the right place. Folks here will help you be accountable, and stay on the sane track. Fix yourself, become a healed you, and you will be ready for, and recognize the right man, you will be a great wife, and have a good life, but you have a lot of work to do first....only you can decide if it is worth it. Remember, is no rush, you have lots of time, if this om is worthy, he will wait (and fix himself as well)........DO NOT live together, and NO SEX....and see what happens. Good Luck.<P>

Another WS speaking. Sad and lonely gave you wonderful advice. I too divorced and ended up with the OM. We are now married. The difference between you and I is that I confessed to my ex, family members and friends. An affair is the wrong way to get out of a marriage and I swear I'd never ever do that again. I was a tremendous mistake to take that route. Carrying around guilt isn't going to help anybody. What you can do is learn from your mistakes and experiences. I agree, you should tell your ex why your marriage ended. The not knowing I would imagine is worse. Also, DO run from this OM. He sounds like he hasn't learned anything and will continue to cheat regardless of who he is with. Maybe that is your first lesson to learn? You were fortunate enough to see this before getting married to him.

Thank you, sad_n_lonely.<P>I do not feel as if I make a little mistake, but a massive one, and I am not entirely convinced that I am worthy of forgiveness. For the past few weeks I have been toying with the idea of going to Confession and starting over, but I am terrified of being told I am beyond forgiveness.<P>If my ex and I ever speak, I will confess to him.<P>As for the OM, sex is out of the question. I want to forgive him, but I do not want to be with him. My plan was to do just as you said, keep him at arm's length and let him go. <P>I have been trying to find a counselor for myself (covered by my insurance) because I cannot forgive myself.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sad_n_lonely:<BR><B>Unworthy.....We all make mistakes, some big, some little, amd often those mistakes affect others. Imagine the thousands of drivers out there who were driving a little too fast, or looked down at the radio, or daydreamed, or got sleepy, and then killed or maimed others in the subsequent "accident"....or the thousands of workers in industry who had an off day, got a little irresponsible, and someone (a customer, a co-worker) got injured...etc. etc....food service workers etcv. etc. the list is endless. <P>While we do assign socially a lot of "guilt" to the whole issue of interpersonal relationships...be it "abuse" for those who have anger issues to "homewreckers" for those who have affairs....it is all the same, just a matter of degree. Yes our choices affect others, often in pretty bad ways......So what to do? First one must forgive themself. (both inside, and by giving up the guilt to God). How does one do this? By making such amends as one can reasonably do. For some, this is by honesty with their spouse, and by giving spouse a fair chance at reconcilliation, if they so wish (that is where I am at, I am a ws). You didn't do that, so have the additional guilt of your deceit. Keep in mind that you had remorse, tried to fix your marriage, but fell into the trap of many, who think the secret doesn't matter, if one is "over" it. It does matter, there is never any valid reason not to tell. Often the ws thinks they are doing it for the spouses good, (they will be devastated blah blah blah), is all a lie of course, a ws only reason is to avoid the consequences (and I don't mean to them, but things like having to deal with the pain of the other, etc.).<P>IMO your feelings of unworthiness are valid, and arise from the unfinished business. Even though divorced, your husband will always have a psychological hole in his life because he doesn't fully understand the reasons behind a very significant portion of his existence. I think you realize that, I think we all inherently know such things. You also realize (correctly IMO) there are serious issues of whether you can ever be trusted by anyone, and that you are not therefore marriage material. You sound like a decent person. My suggestion would be to have counselling by the harley's. I suspect they will advise you to confess to H, and can help you do it in the best way, while also helping you sort yourself out. Life experiences should not be taken as a permanent injury. Being human means a capacity to learn from our mistakes, and be even better. I know I have made some mistakes in my A. My focus has been on understanding what happened to me, what I can do about it, what is an acceptable outcome to regain my integrity, and heal my wife. I have also taken the experience and done good things, such as help folks her understand the mind of a ws, have become much more informed about marriage, and relationships, have become much more able to advise young people on the nature of marriage etc. Who knows what good may come of these things? The A happened, one cannot go back, but how one goes forward makes all the difference in the world. I have felt very little guilt, this annoys some, including my wife a bit. But the thing is, guilt serves no purpose but to get your attention, wallowing in it is pointless. I am trying to do the right things (not gaurantee marriage to w, but gauarantee I will give reconcilliation a good faith try), ceased contact with ow, and have studied what happen to be sure I will never do it again, and I am comfortable I won't. You can do the same, counselling will help you be comfortable you fully understand your issues, and what happened, and how to go forward. Realize that you can and should love yourself, then others can and will love you too. Make such amends as are appropriate (and no, that does not mean paint a scarlet A on your forhead), maybe even give back something by volunteering where needed. Let this experience help you grow into a better person, not destroy you.<P>As for the om, have only your post to go on, but I have to say a serial affair person is bad news. He may be a "nice" guy, but he is a nice guy who has a serious personality disorder. You are not married to him (thank goodness), you should run away as fast as you can (NO CONTACT). Also search and read up on sociopathic personalities, and personality disorders, I suspect you will find him there. Such people are master manipulators, and even when they "mess" with us, we feel sorry for them, and want to "help" them get better. Marriage is difficult enough without you having to rehabilitate him before you even get started. It is RARELY worth the effort. You have fallen in a datk hole, your life is a shambles. But you can recover, IF you take the right steps. Even if (by some miracle) he is to be trusted, and you do fit, neither of you are anywhere near being ready for marriage. You should be even wary of much dating (and absolutely no sex) until you get yourself sorted out. My bet is that if you keep him at arms length for awhile, being friends, he will quickly fine a "new" woman who "understands", and "trusts" (gag) him. You think he was faithful for 2 years....I doubt it. Read here about being addicted to another person, and many other things, the key is to not try to do this alone, you are in the right place. Folks here will help you be accountable, and stay on the sane track. Fix yourself, become a healed you, and you will be ready for, and recognize the right man, you will be a great wife, and have a good life, but you have a lot of work to do first....only you can decide if it is worth it. Remember, is no rush, you have lots of time, if this om is worthy, he will wait (and fix himself as well)........DO NOT live together, and NO SEX....and see what happens. Good Luck.<P> </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Dear UG,<P>Please remember that you are no more unworthy than the rest of us. If God waited until we are worthy to bless us, we would never receive anything. <P>Although I am not Catholic, I believe that confession is a wonderful concept. Giving all of your feelings to God is how you will recover. Yes, you are not worthy, and neither am I. But God loves both of us anyway. <P>King David did exactly what you did. However, he had the husband of his lover killed, and God forgave him. In Psalm 51, he wrote these words, "A broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise." Psalm 51:17. He will forgive you just like he forgave David. By the way, God said that David was a man after His own heart. God has a plan for you, and He specializes in taking what we see as a tragedy and turning it into something wonderful. <P>May the Lord Bless You and Keep You,<BR>John<BR>

Dear Unworthy,<P>"Confession" is now called "Reconciliation." The focus is on examining yourself and getting right with God again. Being honest in confession means that the priest as an outsider asks you to look inside yourself and see what you have learned, so that you won't be tempted to repeat the mistake that separated you from a relationship with God. (That's proably not the official definition, but it's how I see it.) <P>When you feel right with God, you can forgive yourself. THe priest grants absolution and assigns a penance. The penance isn't always a prayer. In my case, it wasn't a prayer, but 3 things I had to do. <P>People have confessed worse things than what you did. They were absolved and forgiven by the priest and able to receive the Eucharist. I've been forgiven for worse things than what you did. They key is true repentance. And THAT means that you mean it when you say you will never do that thing again, because you really learned the consequence to your sin.<P><BR>Go to confession and look at your soul. You will walk out of the confessional with a light and relieved feeling. We Catholics need this sacrament. It heals us. It's just between us and him. (Whew!) <P>The OM wanted to use the MB tools, but seems that he needs self-work before he's ready to go into a relationship and build on it. Possibly he has a character flaw that makes him less than an ideal husband. <P>You've learned from your mistakes. Has he?<P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess<p>[This message has been edited by Bellevue (edited August 16, 2001).]

Hi Unworthy,<P> You are welcome here and your posts touched me. It makes me realize that good people make mistakes (like you) and the Ow does not get off scot free. Not that I'm wishing revenge on the OW but it would be a comfort to have the OW in our situation as remorseful as you.<P>I personally would love to hear from the OW in my situation and have a sincere apology....would that help you? The OM's ex wife might be relieved to know how sorry you are and it might help her in her healing. Also, with the track record of the OM it surely would be just a matter of time (with or without you) that the W and the OM were divorced. <P>Peace to you....LU

Now, that is truly odd that you mentioned pre-Cana. I was watching a show about the 6th commandment. Part of what you speak of involves the readiness to give life and love. The call to be chaste, and make your gift of yourself to another. That is what I meant. You are not ready to do that yet, hence your problems. Your marriage is not resolved, which bothers you. I feel for you like I do my XW. She did not end our marriage legally, or with dignity, or honor. She shows the signs of shame...but that;s just my opinion...or is it? Last night she came in the store where I work, and the people there asked <B>me</B> why she looked so bad, etc. I said I don't know, we don't talk anymore. She feels shame, too...she is still with the OM, too.<P>You need to get out of that shameful relationship, and get right with God, and yourself. When you are ready, he will restore you, and your life.<P>Time to get busy! God Bless. -Mike

UnworthyGirl,<P>Just an observation - Do you think that maybe you are using your feelings of being "unworthy" as an excuse NOT to do what you know deep down you have to do?<P>I can promise you that God will forgive you. I will even go as far as saying if, if you approach your X husband in a sincere way "with a contrite heart", he too will forgive you. It may not be an instant forgiveness, but he will forgive. And even by the smallest chance he doesn't, I truly believe God only wants you to ask for the forgiveness - if your husband refuses forgiveness the weight will be on him not on you. And that also goes for this OM's first wife.<P>I have always suspected my X of an affair, but she would never admit to it - even though there are emails I had found to the contrary. The crazy thing about it is that right now she is probably walking around with all this guilt, when all she would have to do would be to come and tell me the whole truth. Then I could finally have peace with our marriage and I would no doubt offer her my forgiveness. And this is coming from a man whos heart was ripped apart.<P>My advice: If you don't feel the strength is in you, to face your husband or the OM's first wife - then write letters to both - start writing and keep writing - don't worry about your grammer or anything like that, just focus on getting your feelings down on paper. Then go to confession and while you are there, pull out the letters and read them along with your priest. Have the envelopes addressed and stamped and ask the priest to mail them for you.<P>Stop looking for reasons why you shouldn't do what you know you need to do. That little voice is God speaking to you - helping you see what needs to be done. Don't let the "doubts" drown out that voice. Do it and I promise you that you WILL begin to heal. Maybe not at first, but over time your wounds will finally start to close. Have you ever watched the show "Touched By An Angel"? In almost every episode there is someone who does not feel worthy of God's forgiveness. The "angel's" answer is the same everytime - "He is and always has been waiting right here for you. He loves you, always has and always will. All you need to do is truly ask for His help and He will grant it."<P>OK here is a different way to look at it (a little light-hearted but it really helps me understand His forgiveness). Do you have a dog? or pet? I do. Every now and then my dog seems to find some way of getting into "trouble" when I'm not home - sometimes it is pretty bad (like eating the mail or an important book). I soon find myself getting so angry with him and I send him off to his cage for quite awhile. But then my heart begins to soften - I walk over to his cage and let him out - He walks up to me and licks my face. It is amazing but right in that moment all is forgiven. And that is just my human love for an animal who is important to me - HOW much GREATER is GOD's love for each and every one of us????!!!!!! Think about something or someone you love soooo much - then multiply it by 10,000 and that is probably not even close to how much He loves you! Just as I know that sometimes my dog will mess up, God understands our nature. And how can He not be moved to forgive when He sees one of his children humbly asking, with such sadness in their heart?<P>Confession is not something to be feared, it is something to be treasured. The greatest sign that God will forgive you is probably somewhere right in front of you - "the cross". HE died for our sins, past-present-and future.<P>God Bless you and give you the strength you need,<BR>Mike<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

I wanted to give you a gift, but there were so many to choose from, I did not know where to start. Below is a link to a gentleman by the name of Charles Stanley. I don't know why, but when he speaks, he seems to put everything in order for me as it relates to God. And I am usually not one who is big on preachers/evangelists. But Dr. Stanley's messages are so "down to earth" that it is often an eye-opener to listen to his messages. Each one is about 20 minutes long, but once you start listening I guarantee you they fly-by. You will need the realplayer plugin for your browser, but if you don't have it, the site will explain how to get it (its free).<P>I wanted to pick one message and put it here, but there are so many that apply to your situation, maybe its best that you pick one by yourself....<BR> <A HREF="http://www.intouch.org/myintouch/broadcasts/archives_77395.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.intouch.org/myintouch/broadcasts/archives_77395.html</A> <P>(If you don't have realplayer - <A HREF="http://scopes.real.com/real/player/player.html?src=ent_rpchoice_001,010810rpchoice_c1&dc=817816815)" TARGET=_blank>http://scopes.real.com/real/player/player.html?src=ent_rpchoice_001,010810rpchoice_c1&dc=817816815)</A> <P>Mike<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

Hi Unworthy,<P>Everyone is capable of forgiving and being forgiven. It only takes a change of heart, a true change. There isn't anyone in the world that God loves more than you and I think the angels sing when someone is repentent. In the Bible, look at Paul - what did he used to do? He used to send Christians to their death! And he ended up being one of the writers of the Bible (God of course being the author). Everyone is forgivable.<P>I myself would have wanted an apology from the OW, but not if she was still with him. That's to me is insincere, like sorry I wrecked your marriage and family, but we're just gonna continue on anyway. There is no remorse that way, just selfish release of guilt. You may find that if you stop seeing this man and talked to the wife, she'd be more forgiving than you think. I was in her place, a husband that ran around all over the place behind my back. The pain is past, I'm happier now without him, and an apology from the OW would be easy to accept and forgive at this point. Then, for the rest of your life you MUST decide to never do this to another woman again because the pain is unbelievable. <P>As for the man - he is a person with no self-control. Oh ya, he's got plenty of guilt AFTER the fact, but when presented with a temptation cannot control himself at the present time. He doesn't have the will or the tools he needs to keep himself away from those situations in the first place. I can tell you, my X cheats on his OW and I'm not sure she knows it yet. For one thing, an old OW of his lives in a town and works for a company that he has business trips to all the time. I don't think the OW even knows it. He was also hitting on her secretary which I'm sure she doesn't know about either, but I know because I found practically a love poem from the secretary to him here at the house. They never stop because like I said, they have no control over themselves at any given moment, just lots of guilt afterwards and if you think about it, that's no different than someone who uses physical abuse and then apologizes after beating his wife up. Same mentality.<P>There is no answer to whether we, BS's, do ok after the divorce. I am ok; many women are not and are left in poverty and welfare. I hope that you leave this man and all the lies behind, and if you are lucky enough to find another companion, that he will be a decent SINGLE trustworthy God-loving person so that your love will be based on respect and truth, rather than sneaking around and lies. I hope you can find peace. God bless.<P>------------------<BR>Kathy

I want to thank you all for your kind words, advice and gifts. I did not expect anything, your collective grace and dignity makes me hopeful that I will be capable of doing what I should. <P>I did go to church today, but did little more than cry. I found out times for confession and will go tomorrow. Although logically, I am aware that others have "done worse" than I, right now it is impossible for me to believe that. <P>The OM is responsible for himself. I cannot save him,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SoTired2000:<BR><B>I wanted to give you a gift, but there were so many to choose from, I did not know where to start. Below is a link to a gentleman by the name of Charles Stanley. I don't know why, but when he speaks, he seems to put everything in order for me as it relates to God. And I am usually not one who is big on preachers/evangelists. But Dr. Stanley's messages are so "down to earth" that it is often an eye-opener to listen to his messages. Each one is about 20 minutes long, but once you start listening I guarantee you they fly-by. You will need the realplayer plugin for your browser, but if you don't have it, the site will explain how to get it (its free).<P>I wanted to pick one message and put it here, but there are so many that apply to your situation, maybe its best that you pick one by yourself....<P><BR>Mike<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Okay, I think that its healthy admitting responsibility in these matters, good job there...<B>but</B> you would not have to look far, or carefully to find people that have <B>intentionally</B> done far worse...do not liken yourself to the wicked, but rather to the confused. That is what the Bible says about the matter. That is the harshest judgement that I can find a direct quote about, and I look all the time. I think that you might want to review the Catechism a little, like I was referring to earlier. We must prepare ourselves to give the gifts of life, and love first. If you have self-loathing, then that will be your gift, not life, and love...can you grasp that concept? I hope so...you are troubled, not tortured...please quit condemning yourself.<P>I have to admit, I thought that it took a lot of courage, and hope for redemption for you to post. You probably though that you'd get your head taken off here, but you have done pretty well so far, don't you think? -Mike