This is a cut and paste from my other thread. It is about what happened today...I need some advice.<P>I'm sitting here sobbing my heart out. H came earlier than expected, I hadn't Plan A'd my looks, much. I was tidy, but little make-up, hair probably not as good...beside the point.<P>I was a bit annoyed with him for coming early (he should be at work) and it threw me, but I kept it in and just went to my room. Because he had just showed up, I think I felt invaded somehow, and I started to cry. He said hello to the kids and came looking for me. I didn't want him to see me cry, so I told him not to come in but he did anyway.<P>Well, it was THE talk time...he said he doesn't want to come back, he doesn't want to change his mind. He loves me like a sister, or a friend. Interesting that he never once in the whole conversation said the word "divorce". I was sitting there trying to think of MB stuff to say to him, and I guess I came up with a few things like "I love you, and I will always have hope that our marriage can work...I understand that's the way you feel and I can't change it"....but I think for the most part I just blew it. I didn't yell, I tried to keep my voice calm while I was crying. I asked him if he wanted us to back to Oz, he said "Well it's something we have to work out" and added that "we've got to work out that part properly."<P>I asked him to consider all we've went through together this last two years, and how the bad times in the last six months I only LB'd because of the A which I've forgiven, and that I was sorry for my part in all of this. I asked him if the good times were good for him, he admitted Yes. I said, "Well I was never given the chance to show you the full version because you withdrew two days after I told you I have forgiven you." He admitted he put a wall up and also that it's not coming down.<P>I then LB'd by bringing the kids into it...my biggest fear is raising them on my own and the potential damage a divorce can do to them in the future. I told him this. I also told him they miss him, but also I said me and the kids have been closer since he left. He seemed to like that bit.<P>He then said "Well I'd better tell you, I took (girl we both know) for a drive in the last week". Instincts hey, I just knew something was going on there...and I just went so cold inside...cried harder, but I managed to say to him that I was more disappointed in her than him....she only got divorced for the THIRD time last month. I forgot to thank him for being honest with me. In shock...<P>So when he was leaving I asked him to think about all I'd said about the changes I have made and I am willing to make for us to have a happy marriage. And I asked him to consider spending more time here. He said that time-wise it was difficult...well he keeps Saturdays for himself, rugby and stuff. He said that he came here to tell me it was over and we had to move on. And then just stood there. I asked again if he would think about what I said. He said "I will have to, I have been thinking about nothing else but us." I said "Please think very carefully, Bill." He walked out.<P>How could I possibly think he was changing his mind, even for one second. The future looms for me without him in it, and I just don't think I can do it....<P>I just found out that my main support person knew he was seeing her...she found out on Monday from another friend who called her to tell me how sorry he was about it, cos he'd seen them. To make matters worse she is friendly with the girl. My friend phoned him and told him to tell me or she would. I acutally asked him if he told me because others knew, he said no, because he wanted to be honest with me...and this is the reason for the talk TOADY, before my friend could tell me. I wondered why he did it today.<P>I said to my friend, how could OW, she's been divorced three times and she should have known that her involvement with him might sway him to end the marriage...my friend said, yes but if He wanted to see her, was there anything to save??? She is very blunt, this friend and speaks from experience because she was a WS and divorced because she didn't love her husband "that way" any more.<P>I just feel like jumping on that plane, that nothing is going to help, that he will never come back to me.<P>But I am so scared.<P>I have th OW's email and phone number and it is all I can do not to tell her what I think of her....<P>And also I want to phone him and say, look just be honest, are you having an A with her? But I know I'm just so upset that if I did it it might make me feel better for about five seconds then I'd crumple.<P>I am so, so low this moment I just want to die...not suicide, just sort of pass away.<P>I hate this.<P>WHAT can I do now?<P>

I will respond more about contacting the OW later. For right now I just want to tell you not to be so hard on yourself. You are doing the best job you can do in these circumstances. Don't worry so much about if your doing it right. <P>The bottom line is if he has divorced you already emotionally then there is nothing you can say or do to keep him. In fact being polite may just be pushing him farther away. That is whats happening with me and my stbx. He is so nice right now but for some reason his niceness is getting on my nerves and pushing me farther away. <P>Although our circumstances are different - my husband had numerous affairs and now I don't want him. I understand your pain. I have been there but he has done this to me so many time and I have been where you are so many times that now it feels good not to want it anymore. But I have no regrets, I know I did everything I could possibly do to make it work. And I think you have to. But only you know if you are at the point where "enough is enough" and I don't want to push you there. <P>Again don't be so hard on yourself. And yes you can do it without him. You have given me good advise in the passed and you are a strong person. Worthy to be loved and respected and honored and cherished. All the things that he said in his wedding vows but HE was incapable of doing it. <P>It is sad, continue crying. But you will get through this. You have been betrayed. I think you need to go through a deep cleansing healing. Have your time crying. Then you will see time will go by and you will be just fine. Trade in your old dreams of what an ideal family looks like for new dreams with you and your kids and friends without him. <P>You need a break from the stress, take a vacation, visit family, get help with the kids. Ask him to keep them for 2 weeks while you get your head on straight. <P>It is o.k. to be scared. Be true to you and your feelings. Cry out to God and He will see you through. <P>If nothing else he sounds like he is having an EA with her and that is just as bad as a PA. Don't obsess about the details - that is what I did. <P>Just hang on. God loves you. God can meet all your needs and He will send you the support you need when you need it. You are a person of worth and value and you deserve better than this.

Here is my opinion on contacting the OW. And I do feel there is healing involved when it is done with character and integrity on your part. I cut and pasted this from another post I replied to: There is closure that comes from it. While I think face to face is a VERY bad idea. I felt like I had to communicate something to that person. They can't just rip my life apart and have no consequence. I think a letter or email is a good idea. The key about the letter is that it is nonconfrontational. Some counselors recommend a letter and not mailing but I think whats the point to that. 1) Express what is driving your anger without expressing your anger. In other words express your pain and sadness. If you express your anger she will think "well she's crazy, no wonder he left her" if you express your pain and sadness she may feel some remorse and then again she may not which brings me to 2) no expectations. You put what you want to put and expect nothing in return from him. No apology, no acknowledgement, nothing in return. 3) let others read your letter before you send it, pastor, friend, or your online buddy's. 4) take lots of time, allow some of the anger to subside and the source of the pain to surface so it comes across as sincere. By the way I recommend reading all books by Henry Claude and John Townsend. There is a book they wrote called Boundaries which I think helped me realize if I don't get some things out of me they will brew and explode. at the same time I am only responsible for myself, I have a responsibility to express myself but I also need to allow others to be themselves and I can't force a reaction or expect one. You can read more about the authors (they are Christians) and their thoughts at <A HREF="http://www.cloudtownsend.com/Articles/prev_articles.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.cloudtownsend.com/Articles/prev_articles.htm</A> <BR>I sent an email to the OW. She never responded. I also spoke on phone and face to face with OOW (not a typo - other other women - more than one). the face to face denied it. She was ugly - by the way. the phone conversation - she said it was none of her business and to talk to my husband. Here is the email I sent to the OW. He sent her an email breaking it off with her again and I chose not to take him back anyway. <BR>OW,<BR>(husband name) sent you an email that said he has hurt some<BR>people by continuing an inappropriate relationship<BR>with you. (husband name) is a grown man and he is responsible for his own actions but you did play a part in it. My God says to love you and bless you and pray for you. Although I am mad at you I will pray you will never<BR>have to go through the pain and heartbreak that my<BR>family is experiencing now. I did feel like I had a<BR>responsibility to share my heart because me and my<BR>kids are real people with real feelings and real hurt.<BR>(wife name)<P>Nina, I think we have a responsiblity to communicate something to them. Here is a part of an article from The Simple Scoop on Boundaries By Henry Cloud, Ph.D.<BR>God has given us a duty, to limit the effect<BR>that evil choices that people make can have on life.<BR>One of the best examples of that is in Matthew<BR>18:15-18. It is the role of us to take a stand and<BR>“bind” evil as it presents itself. Read Psalms 101 for<BR>a great description of how David thought about the<BR>things that must be bound so that the evil of others<BR>would not “cling” to him.<P>In addition, He wants us to limit the effect that the<BR>evil is having on their life as well. He wants us to<BR>restore those who get “caught up,” by evil. We are to<BR>put boundaries on the cancer that is destroying them<BR>and be redemptive in their lives. (Gal. 6:1)<P>God is about Life. He is about restoring good things.<BR>And to do that, evil things must be held in check and<BR>transformed. He has given us many tools to perform<BR>this function of the salt that seasons the earth:<BR>Truth and Commands <BR>Confrontation <BR>Rebuke <BR>Exhortation <BR>Forgiveness <BR>Group Intervention <BR>Consequences <BR>Discipline <BR>Restoration <BR>Limit Setting <BR>Separation <A HREF="http://www.cloudtownsend.com/Articles/prev_articles.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.cloudtownsend.com/Articles/prev_articles.htm</A> <P>2 more thoughts 1) take a long time writing it because this should be the ONLY time you communicate - have your say, say your peice then leave it alone. One contact should be all that is necessary. it should not be an ongoing thing. Try and make it short - she is obviously insensitve so you want to make sure it is short simple and to the point so she doesn't get bored and stop reading. 2) By the way I got no response from my email so it was good that I prepared myself for that. <BR> <BR>

I feel your pain. You are not alone. This brought me encouragement from someone elses post: <BR>Remember to TRUST - if God says NO He has a<BR>bigger YES in the wings... Keep calm and TRUST!<P>By the way if all this encouragement doesn't help just tell me where he lives and I will personally come by and kick his butt. <P>I just want to be there for you as you are there for so many others!

Hi Nina<BR>Reading your mail brought back memories of feelings I had when I divorced. Not the feelings, thank goodness, but the memories of what you are going through, that I also experienced. My mom was there for me, and just kept telling me every day, it passes, you'll be better. Just ride it out.<P>I've had my final decree now for a year plus, and my mom was right. Another responder said, if he is emotionally divorced from you, you will not get him back. THIS IS ACCURATE. Just start the emotional process of divorcing this cowardly man for yourself, so you can be back to feeling good again. It does happen.<P>Hang in there, cry when you have to, call a good friend everyday to tell you you are okay and eventually, the hurt stops hurting.<P>I want to offer hope. You are going through the most difficult thing I have ever gone through in my life (tougher than my 5 natural child births!). But its not forever. There are smiles and good times in your future. I'm happier now than ever before and have many good things I never would have had, had I stayed married. So allow the process of grieving and healing to take place, look for the good when you are ready to, and pace yourself. I wish you love!

Oh, one more thing. Don't contact her. Hold your head up, be a bigger person than he or she. Keep your dignity above all else. If necessary to get it off your chest, vent to a trusted friend, make a dart board with her picture, write to her and never send it. Don't give either of THEM reason to ridicule you, even in private. You'll feel better about yourself in the end.

notheard, thank you.<P>I started to cry again when I read your posts, and I really feel your caring and support, thanks. I know there is an old saying that God will only give you what you can handle, and up until now I have done pretty well...but now I am definitly crumbling because I feel my life is not in my control. I actually told him I feel like I have been give a raw deal here, (sacrificing friends, family and country for this man - didn't say that), who chooses NOW to end things. He said he knows.<P>I've been sitting here mulling over the TALK, and remembered a lot more of what he said...<P>I said "I know you don't trust me not to LB" not exact words, but...he said no he doesn't, and he doesn't trust himself or his feelings either.<P>He feels like he'll go again if he came back.<P>I said the last two years have been difficult...moving countries, two new jobs for him, four house moves since we've been here, my brother died, the affair last November-February ( I didn't say all this, but I have before). H says no that's not it.<P>He says he has to be true to himself.<P>50 years down the track, he doesn't want to regret staying with me...I said 50 years down the track you may regret leaving me...he acknowledged this.<P>He is glad for my changes, can see them, but it's not for him (ie he doesn't want me, changes or not).<P>He said he was sitting and looking at me and didn't feel anything, except love like a sister or a friend.<P>He said he was sorry for putting me through this.<P>He admitted that some of the negative feelings he has for me came AFTER the first affair.<P>He couldn't offer me any reasons as to why he feels the way he does, he just does.<P>It is too late to do anything, I said it is never too late and quoted from Winston Churchill.<P>So what do you make of all this....I'd say it was way down there in the scale of relationships. I really want it to work, but I said to him "Can't you take the wall down a little bit?" He said "No, it's there and there's nothing I can do about it."<P>Thanks for reminding me that I gave good advice to others, you included...but you know how it is, you just can't do it fo yourself. That's why I'm here. I desperately need help to sort out my choices... which are now severly limited.<P>I HAVE to leave this country and go back to Oz at the latest by October-November, because after that the planes get too busy to leave until after New year. Should I go now, and hope this will wake him up? This seems to me a hopeless situation here...I am only staying now because I want the kids to see their father, and I want to Plan A. That's why I asked him to spend more time here...so he could see me in full force!!! But he is just not interested.<P>It will kill him if the kids go, he says that, but there is no option.<BR> <P>HELP, HELP, HELP!!!

nina i feel so sorry for you and i know exactly how you feel<BR> i have one word " zoloft "<P>let me repeat this for you "zoloft"<BR> <BR>it has really helped me nina,<BR>i think you should listen to your friend about is there anything worth saving, lets be real if we weren't willing to put up with all of the b.s. our spouses put us through we wouldn't be in these situations because they would have had more respect for us. trust is earned and so is respect, we don't have respect because we put up with it and they don't have trust because they do it. its a downward cycle that continues just like spousal abuse.<P>we are all worth more than this, nina you are worth more than this, you deserve better and the only way to get something more is pursue and demand it.<P> best wishes nina,<P> i hope you find some comfort in my advice<P> i hope i wasn't too blunt, and also remember that we can't choose who we love.<P>

{{{{{{{{{{Jacky}}}}}}}}}}<BR><B>I am soooo sorry, dear friend!</B><P>He spoiled your plan, and caught you while you were vulnerable, and said everything that you dreaded hearing. What an awful combination of events. I know that the resentment is welling up inside you. I also know that the first thing to occur to you to do is not in your own best interests. You do what you fell is best, you know that I support you in that respect, but...c'mon...<BR>She is THRICE divorced...I'm sure that she thinks that makes her an expert on relationships...but I think it makes her an expert on being selfish, and living in a fantasy world. My XW's OM is divorced, and so is his mum (that he and his kids live with)...She will have a ready reason no matter what you do, and you know that you will end up hurting at the end of it anyway. I agree that it is more dignified for you no leave her be. Yes, she is most of the reason that he is leaving...her fog is thick, no doubt...its covering your H now, too.<P>My opinion is that he will see this at some point, but not as soon as you'd like. Maybe a stall campaign is in order. The longer the process takes, the more he gets to think about it. At some point, maybe you should be thinking about seeing someone yourself...does he assume that you will simply crawl back to OZ, and never be loved again? What do you feel?<P>Jacky, I might not be the best judge of character, and loveability, but I admire you. In the short time we have known one another, you have shown me all of the greatest qualities that a person (woman) can have, and I know that this medium doesn't reflect that kind of thing very well, but it fairly beams out in your posts.<P>I have to cut this short...phone may die, and I've got cats that are hungry...me, too. I will be back later, either way. Take care...this is not over by any means...stay frosty...you can do this, I just know it! -Mike

sept_teardrops,<P>Thanks for replying.<P>I don't want to write to her because I know it would be a LB and also because of the dignity thing. I have said from the start that I would TRY to keep that.<P>I know there MAY be situations that I could put myself into that would mean contact with her, but I just can't do it. I think I would kill her, or just make the biggest fool of myself, and yet I know the fault is only 1/3 hers, b**** that she is! <P>My friend said that if the other friend is sympathetic to the situation, others are too....you have to know this chick..little ms "charm the butt of an elephant." She HAD a better figure than me, but that is rapidly changing, thanks to the infidelity diet. I totalled it up the other day and I have lost about 25lbs since this began...not that he is noticing. I have neve really clicked with her, but I could see he did...so did half the members of the male cast.<P>It stinks, I hate this, him being so goddam stupid for the second time in a row. The first time was with a poor Mozambican girl after his money...he finally woirked that out for himself, the second with a three timed divorced woman - how can he expect lasting happiness with that track record? He is in such a fog, I think I will have to take the initaitive in this thing, get out of his life, and see if he still thinks it's okay. I am so scared to fac the wold on my own, and I told him so.<P>Now I am angry....and confused. I know what I should do now, but tonight, it takes more guts than I have.<P>Thanks again. Any more comments, please?<P>

Wow,<P>Some great words from some great friends.<P>This is another long one, sorry!!!! <P>John, I am ALREADY on Zoloft, 150mg a day. 200 was too strong. Now I feel like I need old fashioned valium or a lobotomy. (Did I just make a joke???) And yes when my friend said those words, they really struck a chord. And yes I am seeing the respect thing or lack of...I showed him he can get away with this, so he is doing it again!!! AND I am doing it again!!! Stupid me, I said before I should have left after the first A.<P>Mike,<P>Firstly, thank you for your warm words about me. When you feel absolutely worthless, these words are such good medicine, and I do so appreciate it. I wish those words were from him, but he just can't see any good in me now.<P>Glad to hear you're still there and read this before anything drastic happened. I still worry for you, I hope it doesn't happen...<P>I'll tell you something, this will get you...she just finished a course on NLP and got an A+ on her exam. I first heard about it from her one week before he left me, at the party I first noticed 'something' between them, and then you were posting about it. Ironic, huh? She's using every trick in the book, so what hope do I have???<P>Yes, I think he assumed I would crawl back to Oz, tail between my legs for being a bad wife. I LB'd big time at one point in this horrible conversation, showing I'm weak and dependant...I said you want me to go back, well I WILL NOT give up that easily. I married for you for BETTER or WORSE and we've had both. That is no reason to throw in the towel. <P>I think he thought I'd crumble when he told me about her, because it was one of the last things he said, but I couldn't because all the time I'm thinking, how thick does the fog have to be? Yes, I know he was thinking about HER before he left, and he has only confirmed my worst suspicions. Seems like he was only being nice to me so he felt it was safe to tell me. <P>BTW he never even mentioned my email about dinner. We didn't have roast, the kids had pizza, and the permanent lump in my throat is preventing me from eating.<P>This stall campaign, what do you mean? I stall going to OZ? I don't know. I just feel that it is the only thing that might make him THINK about what the hell he is doing....because of the kids. Every time they came into the conversation he cried. Oh, he can talk rationally about it, saying the kids lives would only be without a father for 18 months, then he's home, yeah? But not WITH them. They are devastated...they know mummy's really upset, and Sam knows why, he's so astute, and he said "It didn't go well did it mummy?" but the other two are just too young to know the depth of this. And I even said to him, we have to try EVERYTHING for the kids' sake (do you know what happens to kids of divorcees? They are only beginning now to find out). I asked him to think of counselling with someone worthwhile, for the kids' sake first, but he just didn't respond.<P>I had to email him tonight. He is planning on taking the kids away overnight on Saturday, but middle daughter (Georgia - John, you'd like THAT name) has a party to go to that she just cannot miss...it's her best (boy) friend. I had told him it was in the morning, but Sam has a party NEXT weekend and that one is morning....anyway I had to apologise for the indiscrepency (sp) and suggested he pick her up at 4 or change his plans to the next weekend. I NEARLY apologised for the LB'ing I did today, but then I left it out. I just thought I'd keep to business. <P>God, I want to phone him and ask him about this OW....but I know I can't. I'll find out more later. He'll tell me, bit by bit, like he did last time. Well maybe not. Last time I asked. This time I don't intend to...I can assume and I don't need it confirmed.<P>I WANT to get out of here so bad tonight, I nearly emailed him telling him so.<P>What do I do??? I think he is driving me mad!!!<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Nina too (edited August 16, 2001).]

I am sorry but if he loved you as a sister or a friend he would want to kick his own butt. He loves himself and he loves his selfish ways. I wish I could offer more encouragement. Keep posting, get it all out, don't let one pain be left unsaid, heal every last bit of it. In the end... you will be whole with or without him.

OKay, God is smiling, and I'm still here...yes, You get on with your life for now...he will miss you, he already does. You are stronger than you are allowing yourself to be right now. I am here for you, Jacky.<P>BTW, we are attracted to those types by our baser nature, but that is not what we base our love on, and he is feeling guilty for 'falling for' that. You keep on being strong...try to be content...That is where a woman's true beauty lies. BTW, you should see my XW...she looks like a bag of homemade $#it now....hair is an awful mess...permanent frown...looks at the groung most of the time, and has out on at least 10 lbs. since the D. Good job, Teri...you are <I>happy</I>, right?<P>{{{{{{{{{MORE HUGS JACKY}}}}}}}}}<P>-Mike

Thanks Mike and notheard,<P>He is looking like s*** too now, but seems more confident in his decision, though I could see a waver here and ther (mostly to do with the kids).<P>Guys, read my post just above, will ya?<P>Jacky

Hmmm, sounds like a Plan B is needed. . . <P>can you afford a trip with the kids back to OZ?<P>you were married in OZ, can you be divorced in SA? <BR>do they recognize that legally?<P>I would seriously consider taking a vacation home, with the kids, if you can get help with the expenses.<P>3 times divorced? a great book to read is Private Lies, to understand why he is doing this. However, he didn't figure out what was going on during the first one, so he is on to the second one, he needs counseling to figure out what is going on.<P>I think my suggestion still stands _ go for the trip home, and there meet with family, and decide what requirements you will have before returning, and that one of the requirements is that you live in Oz for x years until you have reconciled satisfactorily.<P>BTW, IF he says he wants to return for the kids, that is a very acceptable answer to begin to reconcile, but you need to follow the steps to rebuild romantic love, because it isn't there. that is the key to reconciling, and you have to do the actions to build trust, then to build emotions.<P>just my suggestion, for a second time, haven't learned, remorseless man. Mistakes can happen, ONCE, <B> the same BIG mistake TWICE </B> means we need a bigger block of wood, OR, we just don't get it.<P>sorry to hearof your woes. I used to work with someone from england who left his wife and kid, to live in the US, had an affair with a married person, and supposedly is getting married, but he was very selfish and not very intelligent about his personality skills.<P>good luck, but keep posting.<BR>oh, and it does get better, <BR>and you are losing deposits in the love bank rapidly,<BR>should you consider stopping the hemorraging with Plan B?<P>WIFTTy<BR>

Oh, since having more than one affair is a learned behavior, OR a lack of proper socialization, can you dig into your memory banks to figure out which this is with him?<P>The signs would be in his family of origin. . . was his home life normally stable? were there any red flags of<BR>separations in his childhood? divorces, divorces in the family, affairs in the family? MLC is the family? history of mental illnesses in the family? normal relationship with DAD or MUM? or difficult relationship with one or the other? Also, how is his family's cross generational relationships?<P>If his relationship with his grandparents were weird, that is a red flag. . . .<P>all these were in my X's background, as well as documented in several books. In my case, I thought i was omnipotent enough to cure them in her. . . . lack of proper socialization here. . . .<P>good luck<P>whenifindthetime@yahoo.com<BR>if you want to chat offline.<P>

Plan B has been going through my mind since this afternoon's encounters. And yes I can afford it...I can visa it and get his company to pay later, or just get him to arrange it through the company, which I don't want to do if I go this route, because it gives him control. <P>Plan b is SO radical for me, because it means thousands of miles, but then I guess you couldn't get more plan B than that. Yes I think it's becoming more necessary every day, if only to give me sanity.<P>I had thought I have only been in Plan A since five and a half weeks ago, since he left, but that isn't strictly true. I have read on this site since the A was going on from November, and I was Plan A'ing my butt off for the whole time since (six months). Although, because I wasn't ready, I LB'd a lot because of the first A. Then I decided to forgive him. Because it was driving me insane. I did say today he hadn't given me a chance to show pure Plan A to him after that, I told him I forgave him and two days later the wall went up. Those comments DID seem to sink in a little.<P>He came from a mostly stable marriage, although his mum once told me she was going to leave the dad...never why. He adored his grandparents. Two of his sisters have rough marriages though. One divorced and remarried a divorcee, the other has recently had counselling. I came from the most unstable backgropund of the two, but my parents weathered the storm and they are now still married, and happier thqan ever.<P>I cannot believe this behaviour of him, He has always presented himself to me and the world as an upright, moral citizen. I think it is MLC, he disputes this, saying he has never loved me the way he should. I feel so, so worthless. 17 Years with someone who doesn't love you? C'mon. I couldn't do that to someone.<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> although his mum once told me she was going to leave the dad...never why. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>it would be very valuable to find out why. I suspect it would be an affair. Therefore, the MLC learned response are affairs to satisfy the ego when men begin to realize they are getting older physically, and have not accomplished the feats they set out to do during their youth.<P>The fact that his sisters have rough marriages might suggest that they married people similar to their dad. It happens alot, and there I believe is the source of his internal preprogrammed problem.<P>Now, only he can solve that problem, and a good jolt of 5,000 miles plan B would do that. Then once he comes to his senses, a reconciliation stipulation would be counseling, no less than once every two weeks, preferably once a week, individual, with the goal of understand why he did it, and does he want to be a responsible husband and dad.<P>that would be your best chance, in my humble opinion, especially since affairs have gaone on longer than six months. usually that is the breaking point, of living the double life, or getting enough reality.<P>btw, can you email me at<BR>whenifindthetime@yahoo.com ?<P>thanks<BR>

WIFTTY<P>His mum and dad nearly split at about the same age mark....she never told me why, but I suspect, and always did, a MLC. MIL in fact suggested that this is what is happening now with her son.<P>He never had a close relationship with his dad, one boy and three sisters...don't know why except HE puts it down to a near drowning incident when he was really little. His mum tried to make up for it. Even now, his dad favours the girl grandchildren abd his mother favours the boys.<P>He KNOWS I love him with all my heart...this isn't ehough.<P>I'm flagging.

Wiftty,<P>I just sent you a small email.<P>Jacky