I am encouraged by the comments in Elan's thread entitled 'living after the abuse.' I've been living with verbal and emotional abuse for the duration of my 14-year marriage. I've decided I want this marriage to end. Now I need a plan. This is probably my first thread in D/D. I have a couple of recent posts in the bible study section that fills in some details of my story. I tend to be a bit long winded if I start prattling about my background. <P>When I think about the logistics, I get a real queasy feeling in my stomach. A mountain of debt ranks high in the queasy factor. It's mostly unsecured debt and I'm contemplating bankruptcy. If the unsecured debt were gone, I could cover the monthly household expenses with my income. H doesn't make enough to live here alone. If he did, I'd be the one to leave and never look back. <P>elliot45 mentioned in Elan's thread that Texas is a 50/50 community property state. For starters, my biggest question is in regard to the debt. Most of the credit cards are in my name alone. We've been married 14 years. Does the 50/50 apply to the debt too?<P>My second question is in regard to plan B. My H is a non-participant in this marriage to the degree that the covenants of marriage are broken. He's unwilling to seek help. Heck, I can't convince him to get a haircut, let alone psychological help. I've been in withdrawal for two months. I've tried very hard to achieve personal growth for a solid year now. I find tremendous benefit in following the MB principals, but when it comes to abuse, I just can't see how plan B can benefit. Well, maybe I can see some potential in it, but honestly, I feel like making a beeline for divorce. I know divorce isn't easy or desirable. My preference is a fully functional marriage, but that doesn't seem to be on the menu. I have totally given up, have no hope for reconciliation. If anyone has a reason for me to attempt plan B, feel free to convince me!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lonesome heart:<BR><B>elliot45 mentioned in Elan's thread that Texas is a 50/50 community property state. For starters, my biggest question is in regard to the debt. Most of the credit cards are in my name alone. We've been married 14 years. Does the 50/50 apply to the debt too?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I am not a lawyer but looked into this some (and I live in TX). Debts (acquired after the marriage) are also divided 50/50 regardless of whose name. Retirement funds divided as well. House equity divided 50/50. Nothing has to be literally divided 50/50 of course as long as the sum total evens out to that and both parties agree. Some judges will award more to an injured spouse but I'm not sure how often that occurs.<P>Bankruptcy will discharge your credit cards if done before divorce...your H must file along with you to discharge his credit cards. Creditors will still probably call and try to get debts paid by spouse if only one discharges (at least acc to my lawyer).<P>Consult a lawyer before doing either one (divorce or bankruptcy). It may be advantageous to you to declare bankruptcy after the divorce or before.

Thank you m2a. My H is very "hands off" in the financial area, which is his rationalization for the debt being my problem rather than our problem (never mind that the debt racked up due to him staying home for three years!). I find a little bit of comfort knowing the courts will see the debt as 50% his.

Lonesome Heart,<P>Firstly, regardless of the circumstances, I am sorry that your marriage is ending. You are now on a journey that will be difficult, and even more so with an abusive spouse. <P>There are a couple of things that you MUST do before you end this relationship. First you need to think of this as a *business*. Any emotions (and there will be many) are not needed in the courtroom (ask me....I've been there over 40 times).<P>Please...take my words seriously, for I've been down the road already. Don't *think* things will be different in your case, or that your husband *wouldn't do that*. If you are prepared, and don't have to face something...great...but if you do, you will be prepared. My list is by no means complete, nor is it in any particular order. Nor is it validation that you or anyone should leave your marriage. THAT is a personal decision. <P>1. Get yourself a copy of The Unofficial Guide to Divorce. In there gives you a great blueprint of the information you will need to gather for your divorce. All the types of paperwork etc. It also talks about debt, bankruptcy. Arm yourself with as MUCH information as you can BEFORE you see a lawyer. And learn to separate the emotions from the business. Paying a lawyer to pass you tissues at $300 an hour is something you will regret I promise you!<P>2. Get yourself into counselling so that you can deal with the emotions of all this crud. Abusive husbands are even MORE abusive and potentially dangerous when you leave. This is the most critical time in your life. If he is physically abusive, he CAN kill you. BE SAFE, HAVE A SAFETY PLAN IN ACTION. Hide money (even if it's in an empty lipstick tube in your purse or a tampon tube in your purse) Please check with a women's shelter who can give you confidential counselling BEFORE you leave and prepare you with a safety plan. The shelters are there for a reason, and not only there for you if and when you flee. (Please know that you don't have to be HIT to be abused. Counselling is there for all abuse. Know that the majority of the *abuse* cases that shelters see is NOT physical.)<P>3. Know that BEFORE you leave you will GET NOTHING. Don't EXPECT anything. Act on THAT and you will be fine. BELIEVE that your ex will NOT help you in any way, including child support, spousal support or paying any bills (and before anyone starts in on me about legalities.... stop). Prepare yourself for the WORST and you will do just fine! IF you get anything from him, it will be a bonus. Men who are abusive WILL continue to be abusive. Many don't even stop if the courts get involved, BUT with that said, KNOW that you can still escape this, and LIVE! Hire a lawyer (or seek legal aid -- you WILL be represented in court and you WILL be able to leave the abuse, IF YOU WANT)<P>4. At the end of the day, staying alive takes priority over who gets their monthly payments. Don't WAIT...don't wait until the visa card is paid...don't wait until the payments are done on the new tires...don't wait, don't wait, don't wait. If you are in an abusive marriage, AND THERE IS NO HOPE, leave (and I mean LEAVE when you can, safely and PREPARED -- it may be the last time you see the house, your ex). YOU are the only one to make that decision. I beg you though to make SURE this is what you want. I promise you that surviving is difficult with NO support, but it can be done!<P>5. Unsecured debt, credit cards etc. CANCEL YOUR CREDIT CARDS. Try and secure a credit card for YOURSELF in YOUR name BEFORE you cancel all. (You'll need it for emergencies). This one credit card is NOT TO BE USED. IF you declare bankruptcy, you have a card that has NO DEBT on it, but it is yours to use IN AN EMERGENCY. The debt...all of it in your name (or most of it)..Remember FREEDOM COSTS. I would rather declare bankruptcy and be safe than live the rest of my life abused and struggling to pay off bills.<P>6. Go to divorceinfo.com and read about your state. Digest and read ALL the sections in there.... the anger, the stages, money, safety, abuse, lawyers, trials, the WORKS. Read it ALL. <P>Your question about your participation in plan B ----------> although I never used it, I understand Plan B is for couples that have experienced infidelity. I don't know if this works with abusive husbands, but I do know that you can't MAKE anyone do anything. You can't MAKE a person talk to you, you can't MAKE them pay attention to their marriage. What you CAN do is work on YOU. Get yourself counselling (personal AND financial in your case -- one of the big issues is the finances that is keeping you stuck. Take the bull by the horns and see what your options are in that area instead of "what if". Get answers to those questions (property division, debt, do I declare bankruptcy or not???? etc.). Once those questions have answers, then you will be able to make sound decisions.<P>Believe me, divorce is NOT easy. The BEST advice I can give you is educate yourself with the legalities. Act as if you are the last one on the life raft and you can only depend on yourself. Do not plan your life believing you will have support from anyone (if you do it's a bonus). KNOW that you have to be totally self-sufficient (and if you have help along the way...that's wonderful!)<P>I don't regret my decision for ONE SECOND.

Elan<P>(((((((((((HUGS & MORE HUGS)))))))))))))<P>Very well put, you did your research/homework and I did a lot of that before I finally decided to leave, just had it blocked out & forgot about it. There is also a network of attorneys that belong to a referral service. It is called Lawyers Referral Service 713/237-9429 and you can get 20 minutes of any questions answered for $20. If you don't live in Houston, I'm not sure how you would pay them. I had my list ready and it was very helpful, just overwhelming because of so many issues.<P>We too were in debt, mostly because of school loans, but when the house sold, we made $20,000 which was split 50%/50%. The judge split each card 50%/50% and make SURE IT IS OUTLINED IN THE DIVORCE DECREE because the credit card companies will only accept that as legal documentation. Even though they are in your name and he is responsible for paying half, IF HE DOES NOT PAY HALF, then it shows up on YOUR CREDIT REPORT, NOT HIS. I paid the highest ones off first, called the others and worked out payment schedules. It took me a year in a half paying $200 a month, but well worth it, I'm debt free from credit cards and own a house that I bought on my own. My credit was almost ruined because of him and I had to show proof from the divorce decree when I was in the process of buying a home. Gather as much info as you can and do your research, it is overwhelming and scary, but I have made it along with lots of others and so can you!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you Elan and e45. I've spent a fair amount of time learning about bankruptcy, but nothing about divorce until now. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom. It's stuff I'd rather not have a reason to know. I pray that my H will find someone who can touch his heart. I thought that person could be me. It's sad to see someone be so closed and unreachable. I've been dawdling for a long time at a crossroads, trying to believe things will get better between us. Oh well. I can now say I've tried everything within my ability to try. At this point, I can still hope he'll get a clue and seek the help he desparately needs. Perhaps it'll benefit his future relationships... with people besides me!