Long time no 'word' huh? Straight to the point. Since my divorce in May things have been somewhat disorienting. One day fine next day not. I 'had' a girlfriend. Didn't work. She wanted more than I had to give and I guess I'm not completely over W/XW. W/XW has had a couple of boyfriends. Nothing lasting except for the relationship she has with the 'person' that caused the divorce, yes the OM.<P>Which brings me to my present rock and hard place. I am somewhat confused. Mixed emotions. Brief explanation... MY W/XW have tried to stay friends after the divorce. That is one of the reasons my girlfriend and I broke up. I could try to seriously see her while still harboring feelings for XW plus the fact that my XW and I are still 'physically' involved. I know that is not appropriate for X's especially Christian X's but... <P>Back to the point, our last 'encounter'...Wed night. She spent the night and..., Thursday night we have son's B-Day party at my house. After everyone leaves we are talking and she looks sad/perplexed. I probe into the problem and discover that not only is she still seeing OM/Boyfriend, but she is supposed to get MARRIED to him Tuesday. She is sad/perplexed because she says she has mixed emotions. Especially after the past few days with me. She says she wants to be with me but doesn't think I'll ever let her come back. She 'insinuated' that she feels trapped into the marriage.<P>So present problem...Is she 'trapped' or is this an excuse for her to go ahead and get married? Is she asking for me to 'rescue' her? Should I try and intervene? Or is this the Lord's way of finally separating us? Last night while speaking I kept teasing her about it (I tried to sound neutral, don't think it worked) by saying after Tuesday we can't this or that etc, and she would say maybe, you never know. Was she saying we would still hang out after her marriage or that she might not get married? I informed her that I doubt that I would want to 'hang out' after she was married. It would be too weird. I even jokingly said 'perhaps Tuesday when I pick the kids up after work I might kid-nap you and make you miss your wedding. She smiled and said 'you could'.<P>So..What to do? Leave it be and walk away? Try and intervene? I'm not ready to recommit to her, but the possibility is there for the future (barring she gets married of course). So I wait, I pray, I think, any thoughts?<P>Cross-posted to OC group, friends there. <P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

I'm so sorry you are in this situation- <P>In my opinion- and this is only my opinion- I would have to say- LET IT RUN IT'S COURSE!!!! You have to let her reap what she has sown- even though it kind of sucks for you!<P>She seems like she is wanting you to swoop in as her knight in shining armor to rescue her from a situation that is of her own making- because of her own actions and infidelity- infact honestly, some may take issue with me on this fact, but if she is supposed to be GETTING MARRIED on Tuesday- and still sleeping with you??? Then in my book- she is now cheating on the man she cheated with while married to you!!! You have turned into the OM!! <P>You have to let her experience "what goes around comes around"- she is wanting you to make her decision- to figure it out for her... It sounds like she needs to do some thinking and praying and focusing on fixing things within herself first anyway before she would even be ready to have a relationship with you...the fact that she would continue with plans to marry someone and still sleep with you and want you to "fix it" for her is a good indication she needs to work on herself- maybe you should tell her so??<P>I am at the same place as you in terms of not ready for a relationship with ANYONE- if you tell her this- tell her that it would take alot of time- set boundaries in regard to no sleeping together- and tell her of course, she would have to end her relationship with the OM, then you might be willing to start out friends and take it slowly to see what develops? If she isn't willing to do the things that you set forth as criteria- then PLEASE don't jump back in both feet first!!! I would feel so badly if you had to come back here because she suckered you in...<P>It really sounds like she is still wanting to have her cake and eat it too......and honestly- as a woman- from a woman's perspective- she is playing a game with you i think- trying to see if you will "come after her"- I do that with my STBX (gulp- don't tell)- push him to see how much he will pursue me....I don't know what else to say other than- DON'T LOOK BACK!!!!<P>I hope this helps even a little??<P>Let us know?<P>TLFM

I think I would just tell her that when you and she have worked through all your issues, then <I>if</I> she gets involved with someone else and is ready to marry again, it will be <I>easy</I> for her to tell you. Since it wasn't easy (nor was it easy for you to hear), the marriage would be in grave peril from the outset. With you still physically involved, there is a PA from the outset ... or at least one in the very recent past, likely with at least an EA when the first little thing goes wrong between her and BF. <P>It's her choice whether to go ahead with these red flags. But I think you should tell her that they're red flags.

TLFM: Me, OM? I thought about that. The hateful resentful side that lingers occasionally thinks that's funny and ironic. However what is even sadder is that if she told him of this he would still want the marriage. Odd huh? Playing a game? You may be right. The run and don't look back theory seems to be the consensus so far. Thanks for the reply.<P>Sisyphus: I kind of did tell her that I thought it was 'doomed'. Probably not my place. But at the same time I told her I would not stand in her way. Not that I could if I wanted to. Thanks.<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Sir <BR>I hope you weren't offended by my OM sentence <BR>I am divorcing my H (long story)- he wants me, loves me, and is working his rear end off to have me (of course- that is NOW after sleeping around on me for 5 1/2 years)-<P>I tell you what though- I can certainly testify to how hard it is to keep the hormones in check and the "activity" squelched!!<P>We always used to joke that if we ever got divorced, we'd still be having sex when he came to pick up the kids- who would have known we were fortelling the future????<P> I will have to say though- I think if I knowingly KNEW he was with someone else, especially planning to marry them, that I wouldn't sleep with him anymore. No matter HOW bad my hormones raged (and they sure rage alot!)<P>I really do hope all goes well for you- I hope that maybe your W will open her eyes? and look again at you- and that maybe SOME day- when you BOTH are ready- you might have a go at this whole marriage thing again?<P>Good luck!<BR>TLFM<BR>

Paul,<P>I am STILL standing for your marriage. I think the divorce was a reaction, and a mistake. I just will pray that she does not decide to remarry, because that is a mistake as well. I don't think it is your place to "rescue" her, that is her own job - to be responsible for her own decisions. But, I do think that you have a responsibility in being honest with her, in telling her that you still love her but prefer to feel emotionally insulated by the umbrella of divorce - because she is continuing to see other men, and especially OM. I think you should tell her that you hope she would decide not to marry him, but that you have nothing more to offer her at this point. It almost sound munipulative.<P>You two have something much deeper than she will ever have with anyone ever in her life. It is a multi-dimensional relationship. I would hate to see her further jeopardize her future by marrying someone other than you, Paul.<P>TnT

TLFM: Offended? No. I thought it was kind of funny. Hormones are mean little buggers aren't they? Since my lecture from the boards today I think I shall refrain from now on. <P>TNT: Still part of the praying W's? You do well in that position. I like what you said, or at least how you said it. Umbrella. Good analogy. As far as Multi-Dimensional. I never looked at it that way. We have a long history, good and bad. I still continue to pray for her well being no matter who she is with. Thank you for praying for mine...<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Paul,<P>My opinion is that the two of you are not finished yet, even though you are divorced. I agree with TNT and others - your exW is responsible for all of her own decisions, good or bad. It is time for her to grow up and to be more thoughtful and deliberate in her actions and choices. She has not been very thoughtful throughout you guys' entire ordeal.<P>I like the idea of letting her know that you DO still care, but can not continue like this. You both need to seriously commit to each other, and do what it takes to be more successful this time, or walk away and don't look back. The choice belongs to the two of you!<P>Prays coming for your family! Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

RMA: Thanks, the decision has been made. I told her how I felt, she told me how she felt. We cried on each others shoulders and now we will turn and walk away from each other. She has her mind set on this marriage no matter how much she loves me or doubts it's 'lasting' ability. She is determined.<P>Thanks all again. The Lord has brought me a long way and so has the advice from everyone here. MY heart is breaking once again, but I will recover. Time is the only thing that will help now. I will see everyone around, I still lurk, but for now I'm too sad to type...

PM<P>Hate to rain on your parade...but how many time do you need to get bitten before you stop trying to pet a dog. Isn't it clear that this woman will never commit to anyone. Just be glad it isn't you that is getting into a marriage this time. <P>I know it is difficult but stop having sex with her. This is preventing you from finding a much better partner.

Sorry Paul, I'm with Bob on this one... Maybe if y'all stop sleeping around for a while, things would clear up a bit... I'm just remembering the phrase that "when you sleep with someone you sleep with everyone they've slept with for the last seven years"... Sounds like you two have probably slept with half of the town by now... eeek.<P>Safe sex or not, I am not sure that you will achieve any clarity if you continue this pattern of behavior... .<P>AGG

{{{{{Paul}}}}}<P>I'm sorry your heart is breaking again, and I know that hurts like heck, but God is hitting you on the head with a fry pan. I think, somewhere deep down inside of you, you know what you are supposed to do. You have been a good and faithful husband, and your XW still chose to go with the OM. Throughout the divorce, you were still considerate and civil, and she still chose to go with the OM. You still love her and care for and about her, and a part of you WISHES that she loved and cared about you. But, Paul, you know that it is not up to you to stop her from marrying the OM or interfere or any of that. If she does not want that marriage SHE has to stop it. <P>Meanwhile, God's frypan message is "HELLO--PAUL!!! I have another plan for you. Now, start turning your heart toward Me. Grow closer to Me and become the man that I have intended for you to become. Do not focus your heart and mind on your wife, let her choose Me or not. For now, think of Me when you go to bed and when you wake up...keep Me in your thoughts throughout the day...and in all your ways and actions HONOR ME." <P>Paul, your wife has chosen to go through with her marriage to the OM. Keep your mind and thoughts focused on God. DO what you know to be right. DO NOT give in to what you know to be wrong or sinful. Come on, Paul. You can do this. <P>Now, here's kleenex for your tears (lotion kleenex, of course), and here's my shoulder to cry on a little.<P>CJ<P><P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Faithfulwife: Thank you tremendously for the kleenex of which I have run out. Thank you for the shoulder, by the time I'm done I'm sure I'll have to buy you a new shirt. Today is the day and it hurts all over again. Through all of this I still fell like I'm losing my best friend that I have had for 9 years.<P>Thank you for reminding me of what I should already know. The Lord has brought me this far and I have no doubt he will carry me on. There is only one set of footprints right now. I'm sure you have seen 'O Brother Where Art Thou?'. One of the choruses keeps running through my head...'I am weary, let me rest.'<P>2Co:10:4: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; )<P>For God's weapons not to be carnal, that frying pan sure does smart! <P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.<p>[This message has been edited by Paul Moyers (edited August 21, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Paul Moyers:<BR><B>Faithfulwife: Thank you tremendously for the kleenex of which I have run out. Thank you for the shoulder, by the time I'm done I'm sure I'll have to buy you a new shirt. Today is the day and it hurts all over again. Through all of this I still fell like I'm losing my best friend that I have had for 9 years...There is only one set of footprints right now.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Paul, your welcome. I know one thing that WSs never quite understand is how events and triggers can come up and it almost feels exactly like it's happening all over again. It's like a memory reflex reaction. About all I can say is that I know exactly how you feel and I am here (wringing out my shirt). {{{{{{{{{{Paul}}}}}}}}}}<P>Now, Paul, if your XW does go through with the wedding today, then she will be married to another man. She will have made vows to be with him, and you need to not get tangled up in that. Okay? Can you do that? You know that you can, because you have the strength of the Lord to help you. And by the way, there is not only one set of footprints right now--there is the big set of footprints, and there are the little footprints of all your friends here who are holding you up and praying for you and suffering right along with you. <P>Put you trust in the Lord and in His promise as stated in Isaiah 40:31 "But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint."<P>Write if you have things that you need to say, even if it's just kind of sad, crying stuff--here or at my email at cindy_cj_wolfe@hotmail.com<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FaithfulWife:<BR><B> <BR>Now, Paul, if your XW does go through with the wedding today, then she will be married to another man. She will have made vows to be with him, and you need to not get tangled up in that. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I have thought of that. The hurting side wants to say 'so what, she made vows to me and they didn't mean anything, why should these be any different'. But I know that I can not be that way.<P>I may take you up on that email offer. Thanks<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Good morning, Paul. How are you doing today? Today, you're only going to use HALF a box of kleenex, okay? You're making progress!<P>{{{{{Paul}}}}}<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Last night was rough. I sat at my computer trying to reconfigure my DSL modem to pass the time. By my computer and of course on the computer is a clock. 6:30 till about 7:15 was hard. I felt better later.<P>She finally dropped the kids off at 11:00. She was still in her wedding dress. She was beautiful. That hurt. She walked in my house to help me get the kids to bed. Her new H stood at the road leaning against the car with his arms crossed staring at us through the front door. I shut it. Mean I know, but he rakes across every nerve I have.<P>She hugged me bye and left. It was deja vu. I called my father and asked for prayer. I called my mother and she tried her best to help. I fell asleep and awoke feeling better. I dropped off the older kids at school and took the baby to her house. She came out and we talked for 10-15 mins. I left and that has been that.<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Paul,<P>You did a good job last night. It must have been very hard and very painful, but I am proud of you for keeping yourself busy and for behaving in a courteous manner. <P>Today may be a really hard day for you, so don't expect to be all witty and sparkling and wonderful like you usually are. Be satisfied to keep your busy, to not cry a ton at work (but expect to tear up now and then), and to be a body that is there--even if your mind is elsewhere. The kids will help a lot, and it's okay to tell them "Daddy is having a sad day and your hugs help me a lot". Personally, sometimes I think God gave us children because He knew that we needed them! <P>If you can, do something nice for yourself today. Be extra kind and thoughtful to yourself. Give yourself a gift or a present, or go jump in a mud puddle--do something to let a tiny little bit of fun into your life. But otherwise, I'd say acknowledge that you feel sad and empty today and let yourself feel that way. Maybe write about it, or maybe write me a pathetic, whiney email (haha). <P>Good job!<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Paul,<P>I was extra sad today to read this post and find out that Amanda did indeed get married to the OM. I know how this just dredges up the old hurts, again. My exH also got married to his OW a couple months after our divorce. It does hurt - no doubt about that! <P>CJ has given you some great advice - do be kind to yourself. You have to "feel" it all, acknowledge your hurt and then find ways to let it go....let it go for good this time. I want to suggest that you think about Plan Bing your exW. I know you have to have contact for your kids, but for your sake....and to help maintain an appropraite relationship with Amanda now that she is married to someone else....just communicate about the kids and nothing else. She has chosen another path and you need to give her the space to be successful in this new marriage, as well as give yourself the space you need to heal and be able to move yourself forward in life without her.<P>There are many of us who were here throughout your entire ordeal. We will continue to support you through this. God has carried you thus far and surely He will give you more strength to make it through this latest trial.<P>Many prayers coming your way; many hugs and wishes of peace for you coming your way.<P>God bless, Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Well Paul,<P>I wrote you a note on my thread too... I'm so sorry Amanda went through with the wedding... and doubly sorry she showed up on your doorstep in her wedding dress.<P>To be honest, I read that and thought, How could she do that to you? What a *****!!, but that's not very constructive or helpful to you, is it?<P>Paul, do what CJ and Desi say... and remember... there are a few of us who have been with you since forever -- me included, even without the new fancy name. <P>Take good care, Paul. <P>(((((Paul)))))