Faithful Wife (CJ): Today started out so so. Few words between XW and myself. Kind of an understood thing. But here is the kicker....!!!!!!<P>I got a summons to appear in court for my x-girlfriend as a character witness. In case you don't remember she is the mother of my daughter from before my marriage. So I go to court adn while waiting in the lobby for 3 1/2 HOURS!!!! I got to speak to my x-girlfriend about letting my daughter live with me...SHE AGREED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<P>I am elated. I have thought of Amanda approximately 10 mins today total. Tommorow may be different, but today... <P>Roll Me Away: That space you speak of is/will be difficult. I am/will try. Funny english huh? When I went to pick up the kids today she asked how my day went and asked about court. I told her how happy I was and tried to hurry the kids up so we could get out of her and her new H's way. This seemed to annoy her, like I was not paying attention to her. ???<P>She informed me that she had heard that I had asked x-girlfriend to dinner (True...I wanted to discuss daughter, I asked before I got to speak to her at court) I told her what did it matter? She just frowned and said that it would be gross. (She doesn't like my x-girlfriend) She also informed me that if I decided to get married anytime that she wanted to know so she could talk with me about it and help me make sure. Uhhhhh, ok, huh???? What do you make of that?<P>RMA, yes some here has been through it all with me. I am sad and glad to have my family here. If I ever travel to any of the locations that some of you are I would like to stop and meet you. Sept will be 2 years here for me. Two long and painful years. I don't know how long this tunnel is but I see a light...<P>Nyneve (NB): I read what you wrote but as you can read above I have been busy today. It was hurtful. But she was beautiful. I think she wanted me to see that. I told her she looked wonderful and that I'm sure it was very pretty. (She doesn't know that I had called her sisters cell a few minutes earlier..it was getting late and I was worried..her sis had informed that hardly anyone showed, neither his nor her family, parents included) I could not have been mean to her then if I tried. I knew she was hurting because it was not what we had dreamed of if we ever got to renew our vows (we were supposed to Jan 2003). She was hurt and I had to swallow my hurt to ease hers. I don't know why, I just did.<P>What does the new name mean anyway?<P>Thank you all for your continued support.

Oh Paul, I hope I didn't sound like I expected a response on the other thread... I only meant it might be a repeat of sorts, if you'd read the other one.<P>You are such a sweet man, and what you've said about how pretty Amanda looked... well, it put a lump in my throat. <P>Here is an explanation of my name: <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/008966.html" TARGET=_blank>What does Nyneve Mean?</A><P>Take care, Paul...<BR>

Hi Paul<P>Just want to say sorry for your pain. I hope it gets easier.<BR>Sounds like your XW wants her cake and eat it hey! Maybe one day she will realise what's she's lost and one day you may not be around for her. She seems to still want claim to you (much like my H), but still do her own thing. <P>I guess the less contact/communication you have with her the easier it becomes - the more you see her (and him) the more torture you are put through. <P>I hope that the pain will dull soon.<P>Pantha

Paul,<P>I was astounded to read this today - what she said to you! Rather unbelievable! Nonetheless, it aappears to me that you are right - Amanda does continue to want your attention. Again, I tell you - this does NO ONE any good! She needs to concentrate on making her new marriage a success, and she can't do that by continuing to be wrapped up in you and what you do each and every day. Also, it is unhealthy from a monogamous point of view for her to continue to "want her cake and eat it too" so to speak, by needing the attention of two men. <P>Amanda still hasn't REALIZED OR FELT the consequences of her own choices, Paul. You are no longer a part of her daily life. You are the father of the children, and no longer ther central man in her life.<P>Regardless of what she ATTEMPTS to do - Paul, for your own sake, you must establish and keep the boundaries. You must make yourself move on. You can not protect her from herself. Doesn't mean you have to forget loving her, just keep that separate from your actions. You must take care of yourself or this will consume you and plummet you back into the deepest and darkest pits.<P>Don't allow Amanda to keep the triangle going. Please remember that - this situation is nothing more than the same old triangle, and you keep getting sucked in. See it for what it is. Boundaries, Paul, pray for the strength and fortitude to keep the boundaries....<P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Paul,<P>I have been following this thread and refrained from comment due to the fact that if I can't think of anything constructive to say I say nothing...Sheryl and Desiree have spoken what I would say...They are 2 great ladies! <P>I feel for you I realy do...Cannot even imagine walking in those shoes of yours...<P>Amanda is still dilusional through all this and just astounds me how a seemingly bright intelligent woman can be in suck a fog...<P>Time for you to truly let go and let God handle this...<P>Acceptance is a ***** as is surrender...You can do it...<P>I use this simple prayer most every day...<P>"God, take my will and my life. Show me how to live."<P>Hang in there and keep walking...IM me anytime you see me online...<P>In case no one told you today, I love you...<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR><P>May the roads rise to meet you,<BR>May the winds always be at your back,<BR>May the sun shine warm upon your face,<BR>The rains fall soft upon your fields,<BR>And until we meet again,<BR>May god hold you<BR>In the hollow of his hand.

(((Paul)))<P>I think it is obvious.... The OM cannot 100% meet Amanda's emotional needs - or she wouldn't be needing your attention so bad! And plan B SHOULD HAVE started about a year ago. It just might of helped wake up Amanda long ago? Maybe counseling and lots of prayers in addition. <P>But you can be very kind to Amanda by setting boundaries and initiating a plan B - a HEALTHY plan B. <P>Paul, go to the Womens Bible Study Forum and look up my post on Boundaries, I know it is long - but it was the turning point for me.<P>I know that the kindest thing that you can do for Amanda is to initiate loving boundaries. Yes, you can do that in marriage, and in divorce, and in plan B, and in plan A, and in any relationship you have ever had. It is a good thing to learn even for co-worker relationships. It is loving a person enough to allow God to work.<P>God Bless You,<BR>TnT <P>

It would seem that the consensus is boundaries. I think that boundaries would be good. This is too confusing too hurtful.<P>I wrote her a letter today, kind of explaining where I am and where I wanted to go. We chatted back and forth and finally I just asked her "What do you want me to do?" She said I don't want to lose you. So then ignorantly I said "What do you want, do you want me to tell you to go inside and get your stuff and come with me and the kids? You know I can't, I won't" Her response? "I would"<P>___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ <------ That was my heart flat lining.<P><BR>We (all of us here) pray for God's will to be done. We look at things and think 'this happened or that happened, it must be the Lord's will'. My question...at what point or what is the standard that you know you are following God's will and not your own? My divorce...God's will or Paul's will. Her marriage...God's will or Her will? HOW DO YOU KNOW???? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<P>Thanks guys & gals, I love you too.<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

You know that one verse that goes "seek ye first..."<BR>???<P>Well, I think we know God's will, when we truly KNOW God. When we know his character. He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. His will is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. He hates divorce. In my opinion, Amanda's marriage is a desperate attempt at legitimizing adultery. I don't think it pleases God one bit. There will be fall out for Amanda, Paul - and maybe this is why you MUST learn these boundaries NOW, so that God doesn't have you trying to help Him! He can do this on His own! God doesn't need you Paul to help Him help Amanda. <P>Seek God. Find out the "culture" in His kingdom, and truly try to learn His character - know Him as well as you know your own father. <P>You know that if you father ended up in a coma, and there were decisions to be made, that you would pretty much know what decisions to make because you know what he would want. It is the same thing with God. He doesn't change. If God said he hated divorce, then he hates YOUR divorce. Because he hates your divorce, he obviously is not pleased with this marriage that only seeks to legitimize her affair.<P>I truly believe that Amanda really feels awful and cannot deal with the guilt from her affair, so she is seeking to legitimize what she did. She cannot handle the guilt - and she needs to quit "beating herself up", and realize that God offers complete forgiveness. Until she fully believes, Paul, she cannot change. She cannot change the past. She cannot change the past by trying to make a legitimate relationship with the OM. The foundation was already laid, and God is not going to change either.<P>PLEASE go read that boundary thread - Sue B is an expert at helping people understand boundaries in a Christian and loving way, and she will respond if you ask her to.<P>TnT

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Paul Moyers:<BR><B>I just asked her "What do you want me to do?" She said I don't want to lose you. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Oh Paul, this is dangerous for your heart -- and honestly... so just dangerous all the way around. <P>There's something we've discussed on the boards not so long ago, and I'd just like to throw it out there for you to consider. <P>Have you read anything that FrankS has written? His wife, like yours, married the OM on the heels of their divorce, and regretted it. They reconciled after she had her marriage annulled. Now, this presented some problems for many people here, because of two things:<P>One, she'd married the OM, and we (as in the members here, plural, nobody in particular) wondered if the marriage was valid, since God does not recognize those types of marriages...<P>...and...<P>Two, she was indeed MARRIED, and had Frank unwittingly become the OM in this new marriage?<P>I bring this up because I can see you getting mixed up in something that can hurt you, hurt her, hurt your children, and cause an implosion the likes of which nobody wants.<P>I know you are in deep, deep pain. I appreciate that pain, and I cry with you. Know that.<P>However, she is now married to another man, and she is his wife.<P>She **should not** be saying things like she doesn't want to lose you. That is SO unfair to you, and frankly, unless she's planning on getting out of that marriage pronto, unfair to her new H.<P>I would like to see what others say, but I think you need to separate yourself right out of that situation. I know you have to see her because of the children, but continued contact of this sort is bound to bring about HUGE PROBLEMS.<P>Please think about a way that you can guard your heart...<P>And now that I've put this out there, I'm hoping for some other's input... <P>I'm very worried about you, Paul.

Paul,<P>I'm not worried about you at all. You do need a firm Plan B in place. Amanda has said all along that the marriage to you is what she wants. The problem with Amanda is what she <I>does</I> and what she <I>says</I> are very different things.<P>Her actions showed you that she could not be trusted in attempting to reconcile the marriage. That's one of the reasons that you divorced her. Her actions now speak to an inability to keep her new marriage vows.<P>She's not getting better. You can't afford to be involved with her in any fashion other than a co-parent. She cannot be your friend, your lover, or your wife at this point---she's not capable of maintaning a faithful relationship. If she were to divorce or annul her current marriage, and get on a program of establishing trust with you, I'd be more favorable of your future together. But Amanda came here just prior to your divorce, was given good advice that she promised to follow---and then didn't.<P>Let her go. And I'm sorry for your pain---I know that this is very hard on you. Rejoice in your children.

TNT: I too think there will be a fall out, I'm trying desperately to figure out where I want to be when that happens. Do I want to be close? Should I be far away? Should I even be approachable? Before all this started I was full of spiritual confidence, I must admit that confidence is now shaken. I do not recognize her marriage either, but I will not do anything to break it either. In that she is on her own. I'll look at the thread right now.<P>Nyneve: You are killing me! It is so eerie some of the things you say. Would you like to know why? Last night at some point in time during our 'conversation' she told of a conversation with her new sister in law, it entailed what is the time frame and requirements for an annulment. Of course I do not know what to make of this. I often wonder if she is still trying to hold on to me by the 'feed a stray dog' routine.<P>K: The very pragmatic K. Kind of matter of fact huh? I am trying to implement Plan B as of today. I tried last night and was unsuccessful. I had given her a letter explaining where I am concerning her and where our kids are concerning us. I think she got overwhelmed and instead of me doing the smart thing and leaving to let her 'think' I stuck around and we regressed (emotionally). This morning we had a meeting at our son's school to discuss his course of action (autism). She showed up frowning and puppy dog eyed. I stupidly asked what was wrong. Luckily she shook her head and whispered 'nothing'. She wouldn't look at me. When will I stop asking such stupid questions???!!! Anyway, I plainly stated that I could not and did not want to do this anymore. I told her that from now on please have the kids ready when I get there so that I can pick them up and go and limit the contact between us. I asked if that was OK and she replied that she didn't like it but that she would. So I am now officially trying. This won't be easy. It should be, but it won't.<P><P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Paul<P>I have read through this thread with trepidation. My H is the WS and he has bowed out of ever trying to reclaim our marriage because he is still involved with ow. I know how you must feel, but your x really does not see that marriage is a commitment. She sees it as a place of stability, an inevitability of a relationship. But it does not seem to follow her behavior patterns. the fact that she was still being intimate with you is so destructive for both of you because YOU cannot move on while still attached to her. It is the same as your marriage not being healed because of the lingering attachment to OM physically. this happend to me. <P>My H never let her go to work on us, even one day. It is the most sad thing of all. To give up 17 years of marriage without a fight. I feel sorry for him, now. At least I tried and was willing, even though I was the BS.<P>I am glad you made the break, and I hope that your lingering feelings will not get in the way of being morally correct in NOt sleeping with another man's wife. She is not yours now, and I am glad you could come to the truth. It hurts, but in the long run it will be better for you. I hope your pain eases, time does heal. Keep talking here, it helps.

Dear Paul,<P>Go back and read what K wrote, although skip the part about him not being worried about you -- I think he just said that for effect , because HE IS RIGHT ON!! (and I'd put money on his being worried about ya too!!)<P>All I can continue to say is that I am very sorry for the pain -- the continued pain -- Amanda is heaping upon you. She needs help, and you CANNOT be the man to give it to her.<P>(((((Paul)))))<P>