Once again, many of you may be familiar with my story... my stbx-H and I bought a duplex and he's living upstairs... for the past month, I've been working very hard to get unpacked and settled. He too has been working at it... however, he's without much furniture.<P>So far, it's been okay living like this but I've made an intentional effort to give him his space - because, after all, he's the one that wants the divorce. So, he roams freely through the first floor - my area - at my invitation. I, however, have done nothing on the second floor - except occasionally wash a few dishes.<P>So, now that I'm getting settled, my heart is feeling for him and the lack of time he has and lack of furniture for himself to get settled... so I'm wondering if in the Plan A spirit if I should help him unpack a little? I've asked him only once if there is something I can do to help and he didn't specifically ask me to help just listed out things he needs done. In the past, my old pattern would have just jumped at trying to do those things... then I'd get accused of trying to manipulate and control him. So, I've intentionally left it alone... but it's starting to get funky and smell like a bachelor pad... the boys are just making a mess up there and he doesn't really clean it up.<P>My family (mom, sister and aunt) came last weekend and we unpacked 20 boxes and started putting things away. His family has not come, in fact, he's going on a *weekend away* to meet them at his brother's home in the South. I asked him why they don't come to help him get settled in instead of going there? (Same ole story, we always had to go to them rather than they come to us). Whatever...<P>So, although our marriage is done (according to him - and it's been a year since he wanted to separate) - he refuses counseling and will NOT consider trying to make a marriage work, how do I demonstrate Plan A in this situation? And why? Am I to Plan A to just be a good person? I know and I tell others, DO NOT PLAN A WITH EXPECTATIONS, just do it because it's the right thing to do!<P>So, what is Plan A in this situation? How can I demonstrate kindness without it being a traditional love buster - taking over and doing it in the way I understood it (from his limited dialogue) to be done right? He hasn't asked me specifically to do anything... should I just leave it at that? I think I'm starting to answer my own question... but what do you think?<P>The danger I see in this situation is this... I become his:<BR>a) babysitter<BR>b) maid<BR>c) cook<BR>d) conversational person<BR>e) general helper around the house and with the kids<P>BUT NOT HIS WIFE! He gets his cake and eats it too! Or am I wrong on this? Is this the result of Plan A? Is this what God would have me do? Is this the right thing? Help me with my attitude on this one...? Is it wrong to desire to have my emotional needs met also? Maybe he is not the one who can do that... he claims that he can't meet my needs. So, where do I go for my emotional needs... *move on* and start new relationships - male and female? Is it wrong to have the desire to have my emotional needs met? Am I in *taker* mode?<P>Thanks for your time and thoughts...<P>Ciao!<P>------------------<BR><I>The new country is where you are called to go, and the only way to go there is naked and vulnerable</I> ~ Henri Nouwen

When Dave and I separated, here's what I did, and you take this as you will:<P>He was welcome in my home, could eat there, stop there for coffee in the morning, and even, heck, just stop and use the bathroom, if he was in the area (his apt. was way across the desert). <P>I did NOT go to his apartment unless invited, and it was ALWAYS as a guest.<P>I think you should continue as you are, and allow him his precious space he wanted.<P>Hugs, and Hi too, Nicole!!

Thanks Sheryl... Glad to see you again... you've been noteably absent lately! Anyway, Yeah, I like your plan... it's just hard for me to see him live like that... but this is part of natural consequences I guess... this is what he wanted - so be it.<P>I struggle with my attitude though... I get frustrated and depressed and lonely sometimes. C'est la vie...<P>Ciao!<BR>Nicole<P>------------------<BR><I>The new country is where you are called to go, and the only way to go there is naked and vulnerable</I> ~ Henri Nouwen

To be truthful I was the same way with my wife for a long time, until this last year. Except I didn't use her as a conversationalist. I do not blame my wife for leaving me, but I do fault her for the way she did it, and the timing. Speaking for myself and I'm sure quite a few other men, I became complacent, I didn't pay attention to her needs, nor did I even pay attention to mine. I think towards the end I thought of her more of a mother than a wife(sounds kinda sicko). I made many mistakes in my marriage, and I doubt it can be resolved with anything other than divorce. Even if we did go through councelling I'm not sure if I could even truly except her back into my life, for one thoughout my marriage I've felt I was under her boot, and secondly the spiteful way she carried out her affair has hurt me more than even my fathers near fatal head injury(which I consider the lose of my father as he was, the lose of alot of his frontal lobe caused him to develope a whole new personality). If I can get through this next year without "rebound syndrom" it will be a while before I'm back into looking for someone. First off I need to take advantage of this and finish college, and I need alot of counselling that I've been avoiding for the last 10 years.

Excellent question. Where is the line between doing a good Plan A, and making it so easy for them they have their cake and eat it too. Perfect analogy.<P>I asked myself the same thing last night. I've been separated 5 weeks, but am at W's hous several times a week picking up/dropping off kids. Often, we'll chat for a few minutes. Casual, no heavy stuff, and no arguing at all. But, last several times, W has asked me to help her with something-moving a bookcase, babysitting, fixing the weedeater (wasn't plugged in!), fixing the toilet. I don't mind at all doing these things, but another part of me says "you wanted the separation, so do it yourself, i don't live here anymore, remember". But, so far i have done these things with the view they are love bank deposits. Even done a few things w/o telling her that i'm sure she noticed.<P>Today when i drop kids off, she wants me to look at a toilet. I am sure it is a simple problem,may take a small part. I think i'll tell her the problem and show her what she needs, let her get the part and figure it out from there. She will be lost in the hardware store, and i think that will be good experience for her. I could do it easily, but i think i'll let her have some of the fun.<P>It's a tough call where to draw the line, but i've seen it said here often if you're doing a good Pla A, you will feel like a doormat.<P>My 2 cents. Good luck.

Hmmm - dunno how plan A this is, BUT, this is what I did.<P>I made OUR home as nice as I could. He was welcome any time. His apartment was his problem. He didn't have time and money and/or skill to make it nice. When I helped him move home after 18 months, there were still boxes standing in his living room...unpacked.<P>Oh well. Its called reality. You don't get to be separated and have your freedom AND get the benefits of a wifely caretaker.<P>It was my sneaky way of pointing out that the grass was still green on my side of the fence.<P>Besides, why would you enable him - create that comfortable environment for unacceptable behavior (separation in your case).<P>Living upstairs will give him lots of opportunity to compare.<P>Being downstairs should be a positive experience in contrast with his own little pad.<P>If he wants to make it nice...let him, but its his problem <P>Again, Plan A might say something different..but I dunno. I'm not an MB expert, I just know what I did and I guess it worked for me.<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BrambleRose:<BR><B>Hmmm - dunno how plan A this is, BUT, this is what I did.<P>I made OUR home as nice as I could. He was welcome any time. His apartment was his problem. He didn't have time and money and/or skill to make it nice. When I helped him move home after 18 months, there were still boxes standing in his living room...unpacked.<P>Oh well. Its called reality. You don't get to be separated and have your freedom AND get the benefits of a wifely caretaker.<P>It was my sneaky way of pointing out that the grass was still green on my side of the fence.<P>Besides, why would you enable him - create that comfortable environment for unacceptable behavior (separation in your case).<P>Living upstairs will give him lots of opportunity to compare.<P>Being downstairs should be a positive experience in contrast with his own little pad.<P>If he wants to make it nice...let him, but its his problem <P>Again, Plan A might say something different..but I dunno. I'm not an MB expert, I just know what I did and I guess it worked for me.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hi! You said that you made it work after 18 months of separation. Can you tell me a little about your situation. My story is under the divorce section titled," Need advice on divorce." Tell me your story and some advice would be helpful too. Thanks.<P>Katie

Thanks all... Basically, I'm just going to give him his space, let him have his freedom and not intrude on anything including doing anything I normally would. If he asks my thoughts on something, I will give him that... my thoughts rather than my 2 cents (where is the cent key on the keyboard?) and then my action.<P>I do want to deposit love when I can... but also want to figure out where my internal boundaries are. I don't place boundaries on him... just myself and my own heart. Nicole, what are you willing to do? In fact, just last night as I was pondering this thought I was reading in the Psalms... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><I>It is well with the wo/man who is gracious and lends; S/he will maintain her/his cause in judgment. For s/he will never be shaken; the righteous will be remembered forever.</I> Psalm 112:5-6<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> So, I pondered that last night... and the popular WWJD phrase and tried to think a bit about that...<P>I don't know, the reality of it just hits me sometimes. It's over, it's over, it's over...<P>But, then you come on <B>BR</B> and I've walked with you through this NEAR divorce which WE ALL thought was sure... then to have him decide after 18 months, no, I want to come home. I can't imagine it! But, with you it was a wake-up call to him - "Look buddy, I'm divorcing you." It didn't seem to be a plan A execution to me... so, I'm just contemplating the method I am using I guess... I also hear ya on the enabling... God help us rescuers out! What is UP with that? PEOPLE PLEASERS!<P>Ciao all!<P>------------------<BR><I>The new country is where you are called to go, and the only way to go there is naked and vulnerable</I> ~ Henri Nouwen

I have always personally likened BR more to Michele Weiner-Davis' version of Plan B...going dark is what she calls it. It is a commone thread in the marriage counseling arena...you know, at the risk of getting kicked off of here, I am surprised that a marriage counselor doesn't follow Carlton Sheets, and Ron Popeil on the Discovery Channel during their paid advertising. (Okay, yes its sad that I know that, but I think you see my point!) I'll be like L. Ron Hubbard, who said in the fifties that the best get rich quick scheme ever devised is to invent a religion, and thus was born Scientology...hey, he must be on to something....he's been dead how long, and is <B>still</B> publishing? Sorry, I'm having all of these odd Dennis Miller moments, but I'm not a literature snob, so my references are a little gauche!<P>Is the mural done yet? Do you have a digital camera? Do you want one? I have three now! I am intrigued by it. We can put it on my website, which is coming back, BTW. Earlier in the year, I com[plained that they double billed me, and I think they finally saw what I am saying, bnecause I got a bill today for $55, foor 8-30...I am not questioning it, but I'll certainly try to pay it!<P>I dunno if you are following along on your copy of my soap opera, its all over the place these days. Teri had Samuel call me today, and promptly took the phone from him after having him ask who it was...funny, he knew because when I answered, I <B>knew</B> that it was him before he even spoke! He knew right off, too. What is going on in her mind? Well, I think that she didn't want to talk to my roommate, who never answers my phone anyway! I saw her on the road today, she pulled over, and I just said, 'Hi, and Bye'. I am LBing so much these days, I really shouldn't be doing it, I suppose, but I am not talking to her about anything other than times of pick up/drop off, and the weather...maybe. OM's over-medicated sister came into the store tonight, which I thought was odd, and acted strangely. She walked right into the girl filling the donut case (a little hard to do, unless your attention is on the <B>kitchen</B>, which is where I was at.), which is not really unusual for her. Spencer told me that last spring, she went onto the <B>opposing</B> shoulder while driving...now that is <B>scary!</B> I am starting to develop some real concern for their safety, but that seems pretty unaddressable given the circumstances. I am leaning towards trying for full custody soon. After school starts, I am going to ask Garrett what he thinks. He is the pivotal one. Spencer and Sam don't like the OM (Neither do the other two), but you know that we are still talking about their Mother here...I just don't think that a 1 bedroom apartment is adequate. I know that they will eventually move into something else, but that's a lot of conjecture...he's still at his Mom's house, and has three kids of his own to deal with. (Not that he ever does!) My roommate told me that OM is frustrated that he cannot reach Sam. That's very odd, because he became the best friend of the produce man at Jewel in about 30 seconds! I have a new theory about 'checking out' potential mates, Nicole...if your young kids don't like them, or an animal growls at them too much, they fail the test! It is my 'guile-ability' check! Whaddaya think? (Okay, its not litmus paper, but it does the trick!)<P>What are you doing to your version of the kids' rooms?

Hi Mike... nice to talk with you again. I think you should go for full custody... you do the primary nurturing and providing anyway. Still concerned about Aaron, but time is your key and boundaries on your heart. You don't have to sit and listen to his tirades... you can choose to leave. You must do what you can to preserve the love you have for him and if that's leaving the room or house for a few hours so that your relationship is preserved and not eroded, so be it.<P>The kids' room downstairs... aah, they have three beds in there, one bunk bed and a single bed. I haven't had time to convert it from a girls room, pink carpet - pink and blue walls to a boys room yet. All in time.<P>I do have a digital camera... check out your email and I'll send you our website photo page.<P>Take care!<P>Nicole<P>------------------<BR><I>The new country is where you are called to go, and the only way to go there is naked and vulnerable</I> ~ Henri Nouwen