I guess you could call this a catharsis of sorts. I have been absent from MB (for the most part, although lurking a bit and posting occasionally), and trying to work on "me"... boring, boring stuff! Well, to everyone but me, anyhow! <P>I have come to some conclusions, and one of them is a direct result of Nellie's thread about ex's being "good people." My ex is a valuable person, and I could call him "good" in some ways. By in the end, especially at the end, he was absolutely horrible for me. However, there were good times, and I loved him for a long time.<P>I thought it might be nice to talk about how things with us are now, at this moment. If nobody writes a response, that's okay... this is for me, most of all. However, if it touches you in any way, feel free to comment.<P>Well, can't really use a face, and can't really use a face... I guess it's a middle face, one yet to be developed.<P>We are apart, not only legally, but by milage -- 4000 miles to be exact. I've seen him twice in the last year; once at Christmas, and once last month. He looks bad. <P>He has "woman problems" of his own making, and I'm sure not about to go into big detail about that, except to say that he hasn't learned a thing about how to maintain a relationship. I think that's sad.<P>I called him this morning, to discuss our 17 yr. old son, who is living with him. I'd heard from our son's school counselor today, which, as you can imagine, is odd, since I live 4000 miles away and his dad is in the neighborhood. There's a reason. Dad doesn't "get it"... and the school understands that. So they email me and call me, 4000 miles away. I wish Dad "got it"... sigh... but since he doesn't, I talked to the school and then called his dad. Radical Honesty even still, for me anyhow.<P>This weekend was my neice's 4th birthday, and my ex was invited. My family keeps trying to tell him that he is a part of the family, despite the divorce. He thinks they should all be cut off with a sharp knife because legally they aren't his family anymore. I told him, long ago, that a piece of paper won't stop me from loving his parents. He never "got" that either. Until this weekend. He had to go, to take our daughter, who is beginning a job as my neice's nanny. She's left the nest, into another nest, in a way. A very safe landing. I thank God for that. But back to my ex... he was welcomed with open arms, and he doesn't understand how that is, but he is thankful. <P>So, this morning when I talked to my ex, he told me that it's still hard to hear my voice, and on some days, he simply doesn't want to talk to me. So, like yesterday, when the counselor wrote me an email, I called him, and he didn't answer. I think he'll be missing out on some important things he needs to know, but that's his problem, I guess.<P>We are NOT friends, and I'd really hoped we could be. We are NOT enemies either. We are ex-spouses who still have some contact because of our children. I don't know if we lived closer together if things would be different. I suspect so. I do know, without a doubt, that we would have NO RELATIONSHIP whatsoever, if not for my efforts. He still wants to punish me, and he still doesn't "get it" why the marriage ended... but that's okay for now. We're communicating, and we're going forward.<P>My H's ex is another story altogether, and I don't talk about that much. I will say, however, that we've spent a few days with them, my H and I, and she and her H, and their kids, of course... bar-b-q'ing and visiting. I'd hesitate to call us "friends" but it's about as friendly as you can imagine. Awkward, at times, but I think it might be good for their kids to see that nobody *hates* each other.<P>So, in the end, a relationship can be built with your ex, even under the worst of conditions, and life can go on. I think we all "know" that, but some of us wonder if anything can ever be built with someone who hurt us so horribly.<P>Wishing us all the best (took that from Zippy!)<P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino

Wow! I was just reflecting on my marriage, my ex etc...too. My ex has been pretty good for a few months now so I really hope that it's a developing pattern. If you would have asked me a few months ago how I felt about him I could have honestly said that I hated him. He was so terrible then (mostly in regards to his kids). Lately he is reestablishing a relationship with his family and I think that is what made such a huge difference. He also seems to be happy in his relationship with his girlfriend of 5 years....finally. I guess they plan to marry next year and they just recently put their home up for sale. They have purchased some land and are building a home. So, after years of either not seeing his children or mistreating them to get even with me he's starting to be a father to them again. Instead of using his girlfriend as a rebound affair and staying with her out of fear of being alone I think he's becoming comfortable with her being his partner. We don't communicate with each other and I'm not sure we ever will but I don't "hate" him anymore.

Hi Bonnie,<P>I think you and I are in a similiar situation, and therefore can understand each other, in ways that others may not yet understand. <P>I am by no means in a happy relationship with my ex, but it's tolerable, and that's better than it has been for months, if not years (even during the marriage, esp. at the end).<P>Thanks for the response, and I wish you peace in your marriage, and with your ex, as well.

I am at such an odd place it's not even funny. My ex and I actually still love each other very deeply. But we have have also hurt each other so deeply that neither one of us is prepared to even try to repair it. She is getting married to OM in a few hours. I am trying to be strong and not show the hurt this causes. She knows. She still wants to be friends though. She actually plays and jokes with me every time we see each other. Which is everyday, I pick the kids up every evening. Odd huh?<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Don't know your story Paul, but it seems to me that she should at least be told how you feel. Actually, I remember something. Didn't she have a baby by another man? Is it the OM she is getting married too?

Paul,<P>Amanda HAS to make HER OWN mistakes... you love her, and you want to help her, but you CANNOT. She MUST HIT BOTTOM.<P>I am so sorry for your pain -- and doubly sorry she's marrying the guy already.<P>She loves you, maybe him, and let's face it, she's been "cheating" on him by making love to you. WHAT A MESS.<P>Paul, hang tough and get the great big kleenex ready... she'll be back, and hopefully not too damaged.<P>Big ol' platonic hugs!!

The deed is done. She got married at 7:00pm. I cried from 6:30 till 7:15. Now I feel back to ok. I imagine I shall be on yet another roller coaster, but I think this one will fade over time. Thank you for the hug, I've needed lots lately.

Paul, oh Paul... I'm so sorry.<P>I'm sorry for your tears, and for the pain you are feeling. <P>I wish I could say something that will help to heal, but I'm afraid there are no words...<P>You know, I was going over some old postings of mine (when I was new_beginning) and you were there, my friend, right from the beginning, helping me. I was just someone on these boards, and I remembered you 18 months later, when you came back several months ago. You made an impression on me!!<P>I will stick with my original statement: Amanda MUST hit rock bottom. If, for some reason, she doesn't, and you are left alone, you will heal after some time of grieving, and you will get stronger... <P>...and maybe... down the road, you will find a wife who will appreciate you, and treat you with love and respect. <P>But until then -- you keep on crying, and thinking, and remembering... it's okay, and it's NATURAL. <P>Be good to Paul, he's a really good guy.

My relationship with my ex is VERY unfriendly! <P>I see him about 2 times a year, which is when he comes to see the kids (he lives 10 minutes away.) He looks angry when I do see him and even told the boys that I was the one who wanted the divorce!! ????? I am very civil to him. (almost friendly.) <P>When he does see me, he refuses to talk to me about anything concerning the boys. He wants me to write him letters about it! LOL No, I won't do that. If he wants to know, he'll ask from now on. <P>I still see his family often. As a matter of fact, his family reunion was this past weekend. An aunt of his from out of town told me that I should have went to the reunion. I told her it would have been too awkward with EX and his woman there! LOL She also told me that people were asking EX where his wife was! LOL LOL They've told me that I'll always be more a part of their family than his girlfriend is. <P>Mitzi

Thanks for your thoughts on this, Mitz.<P>Everyone is sure different -- and I wish none of us had to go through this at all.<P>I am also very friendly with David, and he really doesn't know what to do with that, because he wants to hate me (according to the kids) but he can't -- I'm being too nice!<P>I know it sounds silly now, but truly, I didn't want to hurt him. I just wanted to protect myself, in the end of the marriage.<P>I'm sorry it is so unfriendly though... that's just stressful in its own way.

Sheryl,<P>You said,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I called him this morning, to discuss our 17 yr. old son<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You are so fortunate to be able to do this, instead of the way it goes for me - having to wait until the next time I see him, perhaps a week or so later, or use email, which he may or may not get in a timely fashion, and which he may not answer. <P>It is so d*** difficult to co-parent this way, yet I am required to discuss child-related issues with him - required by law, and by the fact that it is the right thing to do.

Hi Nellie,<P>Believe me, if David had his way, he'd NEVER talk to me. But something inside of him knows that it's the right thing to do to discuss our children, esp. our son, who is still a minor. <P>I'd called two weeks ago, and he refused to speak to me, so I gave the message to my oldest daughter (so unfair to put her in the middle, but I needed him to know something).<P>He has fits and starts about communication. He says it's because he misses me, etc. I don't know the truth of it... I just want to keep the lines of communication open.<P>So, I do get the situation you describe occasionally... but again, I'm not the one who is at home with the children (as you are) trying to get the other parent involved. In my case, my ex is the one at home trying to keep me out.

Hey Sheryl,<P>Great Topic!!!<P>I almost posted something a few days ago on the same. <P>Valerie has continually called me every two weeks most recently for some of the silliest things. We don't have children together and there is really no need for contact. She wanted out. She got it. I wouldn't consider her a friend because no friend of mine lies or deceives me. I am **friendly** towards her because I did/do love her and did M her. The only stuff left here is her gym junk. I could have had it delivered the next day back in January when she first asked. She wanted to come down with Brian a few weeks ago and asked if I would be here. Um... no!!! Don't need to see them together. "Don't you want to see me"? Negative Ghost Rider... pattern is full.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nyneve:<BR><B>Wishing us all the best (took that from Zippy!)</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I want the proceeds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<P>For my favorite charity, of course.<P>Me.

Hey Zip - How's everything? Hope you and Gina are doing well.<P>Marsha<P>Sorry to hijack the thread.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MEDIC238:<BR><B> I want the proceeds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<P>For my favorite charity, of course.<P>Me. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>ZIPPY!! Cool I quoted you, and here you are!!<P>As far as the proceeds... um... no, as in NO! No proceeds. Bad proceeds. LOL<P>Glad all is going zippily along for you too, my man!! Say hi to Gina (Hi Gina )<P>Sheryl <P>

Hey Marsha and Sheryl,<P>Yeppers, life couldn't be better for me. I'm not here as much because... well... I have moved on in life. Of course I still lurk and post when I feel I can provide some help.<P>That and G and I have been working on her new house for the last 4 weeks knocking walls down, totally replacing the wiring and making it a great place.<P>I have never been this happy in the last 13 years. I still can't believe that I was such a sad sack back in March of '99 and now this. Val found her "true love" but I am in a much better place than she will ever be. Life is sucking big time for her. She got fired from the dental office, was denied unemployment, has no job and is totally bummed out. Guess Brian can't provide the answers.<P>She called two weeks ago asking "I want to know how you do it"? She can't get a car loan for $6,000 and I got my new shiney red D present. "Um... too bad... how sad... Have a coke and a smile and shut the **** up, honey!!!! You wanted it this way and you got it". OK, so I didn't say that **out loud**, but I thought it. <P>G says HI back. We should have her 'puter up and running soon.<P>The Village Idiot has found happiness again!!!<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Tim

Hi guys,<P>can I jump on too?<P>So glad to hear you're doing well Sheryl, you too Tim.<P>Well, as for little ole me, I'm doing great. Still doing my "man free" year (thank goodness it's nearly up!! wink wink)<BR>and feeling fine about everything.<P>My relationship with ex is civil and cordial, even to the point where we recently spent 1/2 a day together for eldest D's b'day. She wanted to start the day off with a barbecue breakfast, and wanted to invite her Daddy. I told her she could ring and invite him, so she did, and he came. We then took 8 of her little friends ten pin bowling. Had a great time. He even paid for half the bowling party!!!<P>He has moved in with his gf, which says to me that he is moving forward at a great pace of knots, but never seems happy. He's still working incredibly long hours (which was one of the main problems within our marriage) and now he has the added stress of juggling gf, work and a family in a divorced situation. Can't be easy for him. I wonder when he spends time just on himself........ which he desparately needs. That is not MY problem tho anymore........<P>Days can go by and I don't speak to him, because there is no need. If I have anything to say about the children I just pick up the phone and call. He still calls most every night to speak to the girls.<P>All in all, everything seems to have settled down beautifully.<P>Although, get this. He was listed with my company as the person who received cheap travel/benefits as my partner!!! I did this way back because he was helping me so much with the childcare, it was something nice I could do for him - sort of a thank-you. Well, he doesn't really help out anymore with the childcare, wouldn't stay overnight when I had an early ( I CAN understand that one!!!) so I've hired a nanny. He recently asked whether he could still get travel benefits....... What, with his gf..... Sure, not a problem NOT....... These benefits come up for renewal every year and we have to nominate who is on the list. We've never really discussed it since he stopped helping out so I thought it wasn't an issue.<P>Anyway, that's his life.<P>My life is going great, I'm loving my job, loving living here in Brisbane (that took a while!!!) loving my life and my family and my friends.<P>Have a whingy whiny 3 year old, have to go.......<P>love and hugs to everyone<P>Jo xx <P>I don't think so...........

Hi again Nyneve,<P>now I can finish my post - I've sorted out d.<P>As for my feelings where he is concerned, I still vacilate sometimes. I went through a stage a couple of weeks ago wondering whether I should try and ascertain what his feelings were, and whether there was any hope we would ever get back together.<P>I don't know what brought it on. I just woke up one day and wondered whether I wanted him back in my life.<P>I was too scared to do anything about it. Maybe because I didn't trust what I was feeling. Maybe I was just lonely and **anyone** is better than no-one.<P>Still pondering that occasionally. I must admit I have fears of rejection from him. For so long whenever I asked why he didn't want to work on our marriage, he always said his heart wasn't in it. I have no reason to believe that has changed.<P>Anyway, I still believe he is essentially a good person, albeit a person who got lost for a little while there and threw away everything that should have meant the most to him. I guess I'll never get any answers from him about that.<P>I'm just glad that the girls can see their Mummy and Daddy able to be in the same room and chat, or have a laugh. There is no hatred on my side, and I don't think there is any on his side. And that makes it so much more peaceful all round.<P>He even sent me a **flirty** (in a very loose way) cheeky SMS the other night. Called me "old girl" !!! Not much I know, but if the humour can come back, maybe we can be close<BR>genuinely close.<P>Have to go again<P>Jo

Tim - so life sucks for her?!?!? Oh well!!!!!! What goes around comes around!!!! ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!<P>It's good to hear that you and Gina are doing well and enjoying life. Keep up the great work!!!!! <P>Living well is the best revenge!

Howdy Hey Neighbors!!<P>Medic, ya know what bothers me about what you wrote -- well, not about *what* you wrote, per se, but about the "behind the scenes" feelings -- when you said:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> "Um... too bad... how sad... Have a coke and a smile and shut the **** up, honey!!!! You wanted it this way and you got it". OK, so I didn't say that **out loud**, but I thought it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It makes me wonder something... are we (as in all of us's who are divorced) EVER gonna <B>not</B> gonna think back to the "you asked for it" mentality? I STILL do it with David too... and here I am, remarried. Why should I care? But I do. That bugs me. <hitting head on desk><P>Hi back to G for her hi to me which was for my hi to her and <P>Bonnet!!!!!! Hi!!!!!!!!<P>Man-free year almost over, eh? WORLD, LOOK OUT! LOL<P>Sounds like you're at the "thoughtful" time we all get to... not angry (unless, like we talked about above, something just ticks ya off), just wondering what might have been, but for the most part, moving forward... slowly...<P>I know about the vacilation too... and WHAT A PAIN. That's why David was able to move in and out three times in a year... I couldn't decide if the pain was worth it, he couldn't decide if he wanted me or church lady (church lady *won* for awhile anyhow -- they broke up -- not really sad, just thought it was the thing to do! )... back and forth we went... until we were SPINNING, baby!! <P>(((((Jo)))))<P>Nice to see ya/read ya... <P>Lady M, <P>Yep, I hear ya... what do you think about what I wrote to Medic/Tim? Does it really make us happy when they (our ex's) fall/fail????