My husband and I have been separated now for a year, divorced for over 3 months, but we can't seem to move on. We are still very much in love, but also since we separated we have been involved with other people. I was raised LDS, he was not. I am very close to my family and every fight we had I would run to my mom and dad and tell them what awful things my husband did, of course excluding the bad things I did. We intentionally hurt each other. I miscarried in Jan of last year and since then I went into a deep depression and didn't want him to touch me or love me, I isolated myself and began sleeping on the couch. He then began to not come home at night, stay out drinking with his friends etc. But he never cheated on me. I then kicked him out and wouldn't let him see our 3 year old daughter. I wouldn't let him call or come over and was very selfish, then I realized how stupid I was and began letting them rebuild their relationship. During the separation, I filed for divorce, I didn't want to, but my parents had paid off all of our bills, helped me move into my own apartment and helped me more than enough financially. They did everything they could to help me through the separation. They had no idea I was still in love with my husband. By the time the divorce was final, we were practically back together, but after all of the help and support my parents gave me, especially financially (over $10000.00 worth) I couldn't bear to hurt them and go back to him, they saw how he hurt me and how we fought so much and they don't want me to go through that again, so we got divorced. Now he is enjoying his freedom and he doesn't know if we can resolve things, I have been keeping this a secret from my family and friends, they would die if they knew we were back together. What if it doesn't work out between us? Why should I tell them until I am sure, but on the other hand, I am sick of living a lie and keeping secrets. I don't want to hurt my family, but if I don't get back with him ,I will be miserable. I love him so much.....HELP!

Cbroad321,<P>I read your posting, waiting for a soultion to my own situation, but...<P>Ask yoursrlf a question: what do you want more -- to give and receive love, support, wholeness or not to hurt your parents? In fact, why do you think they ashould be hurt? Do they hate your husband so much that they would support you just to make his life miserable? If so, should you be palying on their side? <P>I doubt it. From what you say, they came to rescue when they saw you in a difficult situation, to help you through it. Do you think that they don't want what is good for you? Why don't you think that if they see you happy and in love again they wouldnot be happy for you? Besides, you never know -- maybe, this threat of lifetime separation (divorce and separation are never final) and seeing you managing it all by yourself was a turning point for your hsband and contributed to you getting back to eachother?<BR>Then your parents did a good job to help both of you. Perhaps, they are wise people enough to understand that you and yourhusband have your own life, and nobody should interfere if not asked so.<P>...I envy you so much... We have been separated for nearly 2 years, and I am desperately seeking advice on how to get back to each other. We see each other, talk on the phone, share a lot of thoughts and feelings -- but at the arm's distance. And he responds to my words of love that he wants to be alone and doesn't know what love is any more. Iknow, he is going through his midlife crisis, but this is no easier to know this.<P>What did you do, how did you you guys work it out?<P>From what you say, I see that you and I did similar things -- good job in hurting our mates. I am doing what I can to heal his wounds and to pay what I owe him.<P> You say, you love him -- isn't it an answer to your questions?<P>------------------<BR>m145i@theglobe.com

Do you think that repaying the money to your parents would help smooth the transistion? I was just doing some calculations, if you pay back $2000/year for 5 years the monthly rate would be $166.67...hmmm, that's kinda a scarey number isn't it??? Well, don't let that stop you - follow your heart it knows the way...

ILM<BR>Thanks for your help, I think my main concern is they have seen how hurt I was before by him and how he took off without accepting any responsibility for our daughter or for our bills etc. He lived life free and clear, and they had to pick up the slack for him and pay off our bills to help me out. <BR>You see, we have separated 2 times before the divorce, but I keep going back to him. I love him so much and I can't imagine life without him, but I don't want my parents to feel as if I took advantage of them and used them for financial support. I know we owe them alot of money and we will pay them off, but I don't know if they can accept us back together, especially since the divorce is final. They think I am fine and I have moved on, but I haven't and I can't. <BR>Last night my ex and I got in a huge fight. My dad showed up at my house while he was there and Steve chose to stay upstairs, my dad thought he was just visiting our daughter, in fact he was there with both of us. He felt uncomfortable and said he didn't want to hide from my parents, but I can't get up the nerve to tell them . Steve, my ex, has been so cold to me lately too. I don't know what he wants , one minute he loves me and wants to be with me, the next he doesn't call or want anything to do with me. He wants his cake and eat it to. He wants to be free to go out with his friends, and it seems he comes to me when he has nothing better to do. How is that love? It kills me when he leaves and he acts like anything he does that is not with me is none of my business. I don't understand him. So why tell my parents and hurt them if Steve doesn't even know what he wants. So don't follow my example. I don't think we did anything but never stop loving each other. We do and we both want to make it work, but we can't have it both ways.

Gosh, Cbroad,<P>I understand your feelings and concerns so well -- and I don't understand a thing!<P>Still, there is light in the end of a tunnel:<P>"Steve, my ex, has been so cold to me lately too. I don't know what he wants , one minute he loves me and wants to be with me, the next he doesn't call or want anything to do with me. He wants his cake and eat it to. He wants to be free to go out with his friends, and it seems he comes to me when he has nothing better to do. How is that love? It kills me when he leaves and he acts like anything he does that is not with me is none of my business. I don't understand him. "<P>-- this is from your posting. And I am reading a long due reading, "Men are form Mrs, WOmen are from Venus" by J. Gray. I qoted you because this situation appears EXACTLY what he describes -- I won't even go into details, you MUST go and read this book. I thought, I had read so many of them, and even got some specialized training in psychology, but this book is a discovery. So, the answers -- both theory and practical advice, even "how to" tips -- are there.<P>Now, about your parents. It is natural for human beings to leave home at acertain point intheir lives and get a mate. That is how Nature or God created us, and this is normal. When we fight it, nothing good happens. <P>If arguing with your parents about how you should behave doesn't add you positive emotions, simply declare a timout for discussions of this subject. You can tell them, in a loving manner, that you don't understand the whole situation yourself, that you need to take a break and think it over, that you are afraid to make a grave mistake, so you simply want to refrain from any decisions and from being pushed in this or that direction for a while.<P>That is what I did myself -- my parents were always very suppportive but wanted to control things, at least, by telling me their opinion, often negative. Even when I moved in with them at a moment of our separation, when asked what was going on, I told them that this topic is not to be discussed. They were not happy to hear that, but I was calm and firm, so they just had to accept it. <P>And don't forget that financial help and emotional and spiritual values are different things, and you can't mix them. you can pay back your debt, you can support them when they need it, but every help is given unconditionally -- otherwise it is no help but a deal, a trade off, and then you are free to decide what are the suitable conditions for you. <P>And I am pretty sure that this uncertainty contributes a great deal to your fighting with Steve and, perhaps, to your break ups. He sees you as a person who doesn't trust him more or value him more than your parents. If he doesn't deserve this attitude, thn this is probably a wrong partner fro you, but if he does, then give him what he desrves.<P>To better understand it, imagine that he is the one who cannot make a choice between you and his parents. And think about your feelings.<P>------------------<BR>m145i@theglobe.com

ILM........<P> May I ask you something? Do you want to stay second choice for him? Whe you said in your last post that he comes to you when nothing better to do. Gee how thrilled that would make me feel that he came to see me cause his friends were busy. I know what feels like to be second choice. But mine was because of friends and times but mostly cause of driinking. Please hon are you sure your not mixing love for him with being lonely? Like me I will always love my spouse as a person and father of my kids. But the rest has disappered. What I guess I am saying is like you said be sure. Don't make the same mistake all over again and go through that pain again. Dig deep within yourself. Might take awhile but bet be worth it in the end. Keep us informed.

Sorry my post was meant for CBroad sorry ILM

I'm posting to cbroad;<P>I'm quoting first to make sure you know what I'm talking about.<P>"Last night my ex and I got in a huge fight. My dad showed up at my house while he was there and Steve<BR>chose to stay upstairs, my dad thought he was just visiting our daughter, in fact he was there with both of us. He felt uncomfortable and said he didn't want to hide from my parents, but I can't get up the nerve to<BR>tell them . Steve, my ex, has been so cold to me lately too. I don't know what he wants , one minute he<BR>loves me and wants to be with me, the next he doesn't call or want anything to do with me. He wants his<BR>cake and eat it to. He wants to be free to go out with his friends, and it seems he comes to me when he has<BR>nothing better to do. How is that love? It kills me when he leaves and he acts like anything he does that is<BR>not with me is none of my business. I don't understand him."<P>I think I might understand him a bit. See if this make sense to you because I am extrapolating a lot, I don't know any of the details. So far I think you have established some patterns in your relationship and your breakup:<P>- A lot of fighting. it takes two people handling things badly, you can't have a fight with only one.<BR>- A pattern of destroying his character in front of your parents. Could I extrapolate that any one who would listen got the same story at one time? Guess what, it probably got back to him and he probably knows exactly what you said. Even if he didn't hear about it, your parents are probably treating him in a certain way because they still believe you. He knows they don't like him and he probably knows why they don't like him.<BR>- You submitted a divorce petition when he thought the two of you were trying to work it out? You did this for the sake of your parents?<BR>- You spent 3 (?) months refusing to let him see his daughter. I don't think I need to comment on exactly what I think of that move but I am left wondering if this had something to do with his failure to pay support. For instance, did you begin the separation this way and then wonder why he wasn't paying? Or did you start out giving him liberal access and then he didn't pay, so you cut off access?<P>Any way, all I know is that if I had suffered the sort of character attack you describe, had my access to my child cut off, had a divorce petition stuffed down my throat while I thought we were reconciling, and you were still refusing to come clean to your parents, I know what I would think. I wouldn't trust you at all.<P>I think there is a real honesty problem in your relationship. Spinning one story for Steve, and a different story for your parents??? I don't think Steve needs to know what he wants. You haven't shown him what you want. You are still letting your parents think he was terrible. If that is the mutual understanding my girlfriend and her parents had of my character, I'd be on the first bus to a new relationship .<P>Sorry I'm so snarky about this all. Nicotine withdrawal is a terrible thing.<P>If you're not too mad at me for being so blunt, can I ask you a rather intimate question? You say you had both been "involved" with other people while separated (I guess divorced now.) Here is the question: The person you were involved with, did you meet him before or after you broke up with Steve? If you knew him before, did you have "feelings" for him? A mutual understanding? An affair?<P>Another question, if you know the answer: The person Steve was involved with, did he know her before separating? Do you suspect there was anything going on? Did you suspect something at the time, whether or not it turned out to be true?<BR>

I totally understand where you are coming from ,I just don't want my parents to feel used and hurt again if I take him back, they will be so disappointed. Steve left and took no responsibility for our child, our bills etc. he took off scott free with no cares. So I wouldn't let him see our daughter because he refused to help me financially, he lost that right when everything got dumped in my lap and he was out playing with the guys. I didn't have an affair, I met this man after we separated, but I did sleep with him while we were still married. Steve on the other hand, I have no idea, a few months before we separated the final time he would not come home until 3 or 4 am. Then he would give me no explaination saying it was none of my business where he was. We did split up once before this time and I came home one night to get some more of my things and there was a woman there, but he still swears to this day he never slept with another woman until our divorce was final, this was a woman he met at a bar and had a one night stand with. So I don't know if I should believe him or not. I would like to, but what man would be single for over a year especially how much he enjoys sex and not sleep with anyone, he is always at bars and out with his single friends, I have a hard time believing he has only slept with one other woman besides me in the last 5 years. But yet, because I slept with someone while we were separated he turns it around and I am the one who is not trusted, how fair is that. I don't desire sex at all since my miscarriage, so he shouldn't worry about me. I am home with our daughter every night too. I don't have time to meet anyone else, he does. All the time in the world.

Well, you are divorced so he can do what he wants at this point. I'm in a similar situation myself and I find it works best if I don't get to emotionally hung up on it. It is not my business at this point who my "ex" (we are only separated) is dating, and she is working it pretty hard.<P>It sounds like Steve isn't willing to be totally honest or forthright with you either. I think the two of you are in no position to be reconciling until some of these issues are resolved and you can communicate honestly and openly with each other. I'm not saying you shouldn't talk to him, but I wonder if it wouldn't be more appropriate to pursue the "friendship" aspect of your relationship and leave reconciliation until there is some level of mutual trust and respect. I think if you rush back in, you'll be rushing right back out again before you know it.<BR>

How can you be friends or work on that part when you know he is with someone else, or may be? I understand I shouldn't rush, but I am not willing to risk getting hurt again by him and being second choice. I have to do what is right for me and my daughter and no one else. Steve can't have it both ways, I will not wait around for him to decide. I am moving on without him and not looking back. I can do better, especially if I am second choice to him. If he wants me back, he has to make me want him back and treat me with some respect and devotion. It is my business who he is dating because we have a daughter together and I have a right to know the woman who will be spending time with her, especially if he LOVES me soooooo much and wants me back, why is he seeing someone else anyway, and why lie about it??? That is my point, it either come back in our lives and we will make it work, or get out of our lives for good.

This situation appears on the surface to be that neither one of you is ready for a second try at this. Until you can both talk about it in terms of accepting your responsibility for 50% of what went wrong (and 50% of what went right too), there is no way. Any attempt at a reconciliation will just deteriorate into a power struggle over who is right and who is wrong, with no compassion or compromise involved.<P>I also think that if you really believe what you said: "I am moving on and not looking back. I can do better" then that is exactly what you should do. Relationships are not about whether you are doing "better". I wouldn't want to be in a relationship based on that sort of thinking. Actually, I was once, and when my ex finally did it, when she finally kicked me out so she could get "something better", it was about the biggest favor she or anybody ever did for me. I never even realized how weary I had grown from towing the line all the time and never measuring up. Never treating her good enough. Never making her happy enough. Never helping her enough. It got to the point where I would spend all my time helping around the house and doing renovations, look after the kids so she could go out with friends or to work out, etc. Plus pulling down a good salary so she didn't need to work if she didn't want to, and it still wasn't enough. If it were appropriate, I would give her a big kiss and a thank-you card. I don't know how her search for this group of men who are "better" is going, but I wish her all the luck.<P>Also, you talk about your daughter as if she is "yours". She is her own little person, and it would be unwise for you to limit her access to her father. What ever your disagreements with Steve may be, she has a right to see "her" dad, and he has a right to see "his" daughter. Their relationship exists between them independent of you, and you do not have a right to use access as a tool to force Steve to do things your way. If you try, the courts will wake you up with a little "reality check". Plus, you will find in time that your daughter grows to resent you for it. At first she will resent him, but people figure things out eventually.<P>It also hasn't been that long since you handed Steve a divorce decree. Let's keep that in mind. He has every right to see whoever he wants, and you have no right to interfere.<P>I asked you some questions earlier regarding the events and the sequence when you and Steve broke up. It would help me understand the situation a little bit better.<BR>

cbroad: Let me add a little of my story. My h and I had lost communication w/each other. To be brief and to the part that might be like yours....he had an affair w/his secretary. The reason? Because I didn't listen to him. I cut him off in every respect. He was lost and lonely and she listened and sympathized. As you should know if you've read the concept section of this site, anyone empathizing w/someone gets a lot of emotional pluses in their lovebank account. We have had alot of problems, from both sides, but I can now see where it all came from now clearly. You sound like you are still angry with him and hurt. I'm sure that is coming through loud and clear. How else should he react? It sounds like to me that he does love you and he is abusing himself by not letting you go. He keeps coming back to you. Is it possible? Why would he keep contacting you if you show him no respect, throw disrepectful judgements at him when you do see him, are not honest with him? It seems to me that he is doing the best he can to build his own self-esteem back up (maybe going about it the wrong way). You both should step back and consider what you want out of your relationship. Are you willing to work on your problems - you both have them. Have you read Harley's His Needs, Her Needs? Please read all the concepts on this site and then maybe James Dobson's "Love Must Be Tough". <P>Good Luck and God Bless you both.

Hello Fellow LDS friend...Okay..I am going to explain my parents situation to you...I am married..but your situation is like what happened to them...<P>My dad made a lot of BAD choices in my parent's relationship...and my mom is the only member of the church in her family besides us kids now...So I can empathize with the LDS situation...because there is a little bit of a stigma attached about how we are supossed to be..and I know you understand what I mean by that. My parents are a three peat couple. =0) My mom left him with five kids and divorced..raised us very well...they got back together...my mom's parents said that if she gave up the church and him that she would never need financially...but she didn't give either up. She loved my Father..and he has since made some huge changes...can't believe he is the same man...and they are happily married for the third time. NOW I WOULDN"T reccommend this situation on anyone..because We went through Heck....Can you imagine how hard it is for me now being a newlywed..trying TO figure out how to do this right??? BUT I also grew because of it...I found strength inside me I didn't know was there. My husband is a fairly New LDS member...which makes it easier...being married to someone of a different faith is hard...I have a few friends who are going through it.<P>You're parents always want what they think is best for you..but I guess you have to be honest and think about HOW the marriage was...is it really worth it..is is healthy for the both of you...my parents learned that you can be totally and completely in love with eachother and not be able to be married UNTIL both were willing to make changes...is your ex willing to do that? <P>I think that your parents if it TRULY is the right thing for you..will come to terms with it and eventually find forgiveness for your husband..and my mom's parents did...but they had to see a lot of proof...and my dad worked his bum off to show them..is your hubby willing to do that?<P>I think that you have been taught where to find the right answers as I have.....=0) Use what you have been taught...<P>You can only make the choice that is right for you....Is getting back together with him HONESTLY the best thing for your growth...or should you find someone else that might be better for you? It is a difficult situation...It took my dad 3 times to get his act together....It isn't an easy thing to go through...Just REALLY think about it long and hard.<BR>Have a great day...<P>E. Stump<P>------------------<BR>In the end I want to be standing at the beginning with you...