Well, I have been debating on whether to bore ya'll to tears with my continuing saga of "hugs" during the week and "no contact" on the weekends. I really appreciate everyone's support here but I hate to beat the same dead horse all the time. The weekend was no different than the last 2 months. Never heard a word from H. He shows up Monday with the turtles, all happy & stuff. Bought them on Sat morning. Didn't work Sat night but waited until Monday to bring them over. No explanation, even when kids asked.<P>By the time I got to work Monday, I was feeling bad again. I really needed to talk to him. At lunch time, I wrote the following letter: <BR>I don’t know how you stood it this morning when you found out about the kids prayer vigil for you yesterday. I hope it made you realize how much they miss you and miss our family being together. They are good kids and they love both of us and all they want is for us to be a family. <P>Last Thursday coming to the ball game, Austin was asking if you were coming and I told him yes, I thought so. He said, “Daddy loves me”. I said, “Yes, he does very much.” He asked why you didn’t want to live with us. I answered “even if Daddy doesn’t live with us anymore, it doesn’t mean he doesn’t love you and miss you all the time. He said, “Daddy doesn’t live with us because he doesn’t love you”. This really floored me coming from a 5 year old. I didn’t say anything else because I didn’t want to let him know he was right and how bad it upset me.<P>I really hate the fact that I have to continually bring up the subject, but I really need to know if you have made any decisions regarding your living situation and whether or not you want to work on our marriage. I need to know what you are thinking. I am so sorry that I continually preach to you about what you should do. I’m not trying to do that now. I just need to know where my future is headed. If you are not planning on being in my life, other than as the Dad, I need to make some big personal and financial decisions.<P>If we do not attempt to reconcile, I need to sell the house. I am willing to assume the debt from the house if you will sign over the deed to me. I also think we can come to an arrangement that allows you to keep your savings and your profit sharing and I can keep mine. These things were always separate anyway and neither of us contributed to the amounts saved in the others accounts. We can split the credit card debt and you can keep your boat if I can keep all the house furnishings and yard equipment. The courts will decide Child support and insurance, but we can come to a temporary agreement until one of us files legal documents.<P>I want what is best for our children. At this time, I cannot see how trying to stay in the house will be in their best interest long term. The 3 of us don’t need all that space and land and I don’t have the time or energy to maintain it. It also holds a lot of happy memories for me that I just can’t face on a day-to-day basis right now. I barely can go downstairs because it seems so empty without you. <P>As you know, I don’t want any of these things to happen. I want to find a way that you will come home and try to see if we can regain the love we once knew. However, if this isn’t possible, we need to face the reality and move forward with our lives. The last few times I’ve seen you, you seem pretty happy. It is good to see you smile; laugh and joke around like your old self. It also hurts because I know I’m not the one making you happy. <P>I would like another chance to make you a good wife but if that is not possible, I need to start the healing process. Maybe I’m pushing too hard again. It’s been almost 3 weeks since your infidelity was exposed. I’m still trying to deal with this and for the most part, I don’t dwell on it. It doesn’t do me any good to hate her. She is not my problem. Your unwillingness to commit to our marriage is my problem. I still worry about you and wonder if you are getting all your needs met but each day, I worry a little less. No more panic attacks.<P>I don’t see the depression in your eyes like I did before. I guess that comes from not having to hide your secret life from me anymore. I’m still a bit confused as to why you wanted me to find out about your relationship with her. Did you expect me to get so mad, I would hate you and file for divorce? Would it help relieve your guilt? I know you don’t want to be the bad guy here and I know you had very real reasons for leaving home. <P>I have acknowledged my part in contributing to the breakdown of our marriage. I do not blame you and I am capable of forgiving you for mistakes you’ve made since you moved out. I cannot however continue to love you unconditionally. The continuation of my love has now been made dependent on your actions. If you want to continue in your current relationship and you honestly think that is what is best for you, I will take the necessary steps to dissolve our marriage and I’ll not make any more attempts to change your opinion. That is not meant to sound like a threat; I just don’t know any other nicer way to say it. You know I love you and that I only want what is best for all of us.<P>I guess I’m just trying to say that if you care anything about me, you will be considerate of my feelings and quit letting your fears control you. I’m sure you are scared that you will come home and our marriage may fail. It might fail. At this point, we don’t know what it will take to restore our love and respect and trust for each other. However, this whole shake-up could be a sign from God that we needed a little push in the right direction and that our marriage could ultimately be better than it ever was before. You might be scared to give up your new relationship while you are seeing if we can work it out. I understand how scary the possibility of being alone is. I just know without a shadow of a doubt that until you end this relationship with (OW), there is no chance for our reconciliation. It is not possible for you to handle the stress and lies it would take to continue both relationships. It would take a serious toll on your mental and physical health and most likely cause you to lose both relationships in the long run.<P>Therefore, it is important that you figure out what you want and make a decision to either try to restore our marriage or develop a plan to dissolve our marriage. I hate that this sounds like an ultimatum because it is not what I intended. I stand to lose a lot by asking you to make a decision. However, I’m losing my own self-respect and identity by hanging on to a hopeless situation. I still think there is hope for us, and if we were doing anything to work on the relationship, I could hold out a lot longer. I just don’t see you making any efforts to work on things. You may have done a lot of thinking and may be close to making some decisions. However, I don’t know that and unless you tell me what you are thinking, I will never know you really care what happens to us.<P>If you care about me at all, please pray earnestly about this decision. Let God guide you to do the right thing for you. I love you with all my heart and soul and no matter what you will always be special to me because you gave me the best three gifts anyone ever could. You gave me your love for 17 years and two wonderful children. I am forever grateful for that. Your wife, Lynn<P>Sorry, I tend to get long winded. I really didn't intend to give this to him when I wrote it but for some reason, I put it in the Surviving an Affair book and gave it to him Monday night at the ballgame.<P>Tuesday, he said nothing about the letter but hugged me twice. Seemed happy. Last night, it was PTO at school and I was dreading wrestling with both kids by myself for 2 hours while trying to talk to their teachers. As we are getting into the car, H pulls up. I asked if he was going to PTO. He said, no, he thought he would stay home with the kids and cut the grass while I was gone so it would be easier on me. I COULDN'T HAVE BEEN MORE SHOCKED IF HE RODE IN ON A WHITE HORSE.....<P>This morning, still nothing about the letter and I didn't get the customary hug. It may have been because I was wearing a nightgown that I had on our honeymoon and it could have turned up some memories. Nothing too revealing but NOT flannel either. <P>Just don't know what to make of all of this. I was afraid letter would damage things but I hope he will see it as positive not threatening. Maybe he will at least start to respect my boundaries some. <P>What you ya'll think??? It's ok to be brutally honest.<P>Lynn <P><BR>

hi {{{{{{lynn}}}}}},<P>i noticed today that nobody answered your post. i felt bad because you were asking for advice and nobody seemed to have any. <P>i would like to give you advice, but i feel that it would be too insensitive... i was wondering, did you give your h this letter already? if yes, what did he say? <P>i don't want to say anything here on this board that would hurt your feellings because everybody might read it and i don't want to put you out there like that. if you want to email (idostylin@msn.com/kim@aci3.com -2nd one is my work e-mail)me and we can have personal corrspondence if it's okay. <P>i don't claim to know everything and i am here in this site also, so i can't be all that bright but i do have a little advice and a little knowledge... let me stress little... <P>NE way, i just wanted to respond to you in some way...<P>God Bless.<P>Kim...

IDoS,<P>I'm a big girl. I am not always looking for someone to agree with me here. Ask Mike(W-F-H), he will agree that I strive for the truth. I will not get offended if you don't agree with me. I need the various opinions of others who are separated from their spouses.<P>I have e-mail also @ lynndkil@aol.com if you really aren't comfortable responding here. Actually I was hesitate to post that letter because unless you have followed my entire story, it would seem like I was a pushy manipulative woman. I will be glad to fill in any spots if needed. My H is not abusive at all. In fact, we get along great. He just prefers to continue his affair and see me whenever it is convienent for him. He has made no personal sacrifices at all during our separtation, which is now over 5 months. <P>Please don't feel like I am easily offended. If I'm willing to forgive my H for abandoning me and our kids, leaving me with all the bills, a big house and 4 acres of land to maintain, and offering no emotional support, I surely can let an insensitive comment or two roll off my back.<P>Please let me know what you think.<P>Lynn

I should add that I'm really missing Mike and I hope he is doing well. I see an occasional response from him to Ninatoo so .....<P>If you are outthere, Mike, let me know what you think about my situation.<P>I think H wants to go camping as a family this weekend, as we never got to do that before. I simply can't go unless he has moved out of the house with her. Am I being unreasonable? I'm not asking him to move back here and be my H, I just want him to get away from her so he can have a clearer picture of what he wants. <P>Going nutz.... Lynn<BR>

Idostylin,<P>I re-read your post and even though I answered the questions in my original posts, I will do so again.<P>Yes I gave him the letter, with the book Surviving an Affair. Two days have passed and I have seen him both mornings. He is in a good mood, gives me hugs, talks, laughs, etc.<P>The biggest thing is that last night he did the first considerate thing ever since he moved out 5 months ago. He actually came to the house, watched the kids and cut the grass so I could go to PTO alone.<P>As I said before, I was shocked. In the past 5 months, he hasn't volunteered to do much at all, much less sacrifice some of his time to help me out. I saw this as a positive sign even though I've tried not to make too much of it. I am working really hard on my expectations. <P>He knows that I expected him to make the first step by moving out of the house he shares with the OW. We discussed this 3 weeks ago and he asked for 2 days to think then. Well, he has had 21 days as of today and still not one word about what he is thinking.<P>In my opinion that is inconsiderate and maybe he is not capable of doing any better. I don't agree but maybe.<P>I need to move to Plan B but I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt and ask one more time if he had even thought about working on our marriage. 2 more days and still no answer. <P>Does this help explain my frustration?<P>Lynn

That letter sounds very similiar to a letter I wrote to my wife after I got back from a field exercise to find that she had moved out. I wish I had your gift for being forceful and direct, yet subtle and calm. I said exactly what was on my mind. I went from conveying shock to anger to hurt to fear all in five pages. LOL<P>As to your situation, I know how difficult it is waiting for an answer to what doesn't sound like, and what isn't intended to be, but basically IS an ultimatum. I haven't been brave enough to attempt that with my wife. I suppose I'm afraid of the answer she'd give, especially if she felt pushed or hurried. <P>Three weeks, huh? Well, It's been 7 for my wife. Since you've already reached the point where you want closure, I would agree and say it has been long enough. It isn't fair to you or your children to be strung along. I, personally, would confront him and force a conversation about your letter. For good or for bad, depending on your point of view, closure should be achieved. I'll keep an eye out for your name. Good luck.

(((((((((((Lynn)))))))))))))<P>I read your post about 5 times this afternoon and just couldn't come up with the words to say. I absolutely loved your letter, though LONG, you could really tell that it was written from the heart. Plus, I know how it feels to be in the LIMBO stage.<P>I don't know that you'll get a response from him. You see us men types have an "out of sight out of mind attitude" therefore he may try to ignore it hoping that it will go away. For all concerned I hope that he doesn't but be prepared. <P>I've followed your posts a little bit and let me just tell you that I really admire you. You have more strength than I, that's for sure.<P>Take care of yourself and those wonderful children.<P>Hugs, Thoughts, & Prayers from the Prairie Land<P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

Sorry I'm late, but I worked a double shift today. Did I tell you that the caterpillar is alive, and morphing? Oh, well....<P>So, what are the turtles names'?<P>The letter is very sweet, and all that, but I'm getting only one message from this...pressure. The words you say are so well put, and loving, really...but he has the message now, and its time to let up a little, and see what he does, you know? This week has been hard on all of you, Lynn.<P>One piece of advice with respect to the children...you are not in a very good position to relate incidents to him. Its a mess, and you ultimately add some pressure for the kids, too...please be careful there, that's all I'm saying.<P>You've got a lot of irons in the fire right now, how are you holding up, generally speaking? What, in other words, do you do for you these days?<P>I posted to you in the Vigil thread...at least I thought I did, but anyway...again, I'd say that you had a very full, productive, and stressful week! -Mike

Mike,<BR>Turtles are Rudy and Trudy. Katie calls Trudy "buttercup" so there is a bit of a conflict there. The cat hates them now and has almost knocked their little plastic island world in the floor on several occasions.<P>Austin showed me a coccoon that we have on the eves of the house. It is pretty cool. Hope something will come of it. Its a good thing that I'm not one of those prissy females that says, EEEWWW, ICK, Bugs! I would never be able to keep up with my son. I'm really enjoying this age.<P>Mike, Bill, Wolfen,<P>Thanks for taking time to read my post and respond. I have a tendency to pour out my emotions on paper. I write to my H everyday but haven't given him letters since May until that one. I think if I hadn't of seen him that night, I would never have given that one to him. It was just all so fresh in my mind.<P>I suppose my big dilema here is boundaries. I am trying to set a limit to the things I will do to restore my marriage. Being treated like my feelings are not important or that I'm stupid just don't cut it anymore. I can not ignore the fact that he is choosing to stay with this OW. I have let him know that I could not accept his living arrangement. However, now 3 weeks have passed and he has made no attempt to move, or even turn in a notice that he wants to move. <P>To me his actions are speaking louder than his words anyway. I just wanted to hear it from him. I understand that I may never get the answer I want. I was prepared for that when I asked. I just feel overwhelmed and allowing him to ignore this issue just adds more time to the timeline to get my life started over. <P>His coming around, acting happy and "married" (those two things don't usually go together on this site, huh?) is confusing for me and the kids.<P>Anyway, I have told him my boundary and I have already let him stretch it 21 days longer than I originally wanted. He is a type of person that will "stradle the fence" until something comes along to push him off.<P>I have said here many times before that I was the major decision maker in our family. Not because I am a control freak(even though I am) but mostly because of his indifference to things. He simply didn't care as long as things got done and he didn't have to do them.<P>I hate pushing for an answer and I completely understand that I am taking a risk. However, by continuing to allow him more and more time, it makes me look like I have no backbone and cannot set a limit and stick to it. <P>I'm not saying "move back home or I'm filing for divorce". I'm saying, "move to a safe place away from all influences so you can truly think and decide what you want." I'm sure if the roles were reversed and I was the OW, I would be using any means necessary to "keep my man". Her x was a drug addict so I'm sure my hard-working H looks like a gravy train to her. If I was her, I would make sure he didn't get the opportunity to miss his family. By getting away from both of us, he can see things more clearly, IMHO.<P>I know the only PUSHing I should be doing is Pray Until Something Happens.<P>Personally, I'm losing respect for myself because I turn to jello when he is around and do not stand up for what I've said. I need to say what I mean and mean what I say. <P>If I'm not included in this weekends plans, I will see that as an answer that he does not intend to work on our marriage. I will not go on a family outing unless I can go as his wife. It would be too hard otherwise. I don't want to go along as the babysitter/cook/tent setup person. <P>Am I wrong? Thanks for your replies!<P>Lynn<P> <BR>

Lynn,<BR>You are absolutely not wrong in whatever decision you make regarding the camping weekend and the much bigger picture of your future. You are not wrong because you are making these decisions based on what is right and best and good for you given the circumstances in which you are being forced to operate. <BR>I thought your letter was outstanding. It was much kinder than it could have been, but it was not a doormat letter. You simply said, "this is what I need, if you can't do it, at least have the decency to tell me so." He owes you that. He can at least honor your 17 years with some dignity and directness. As you have already discerned, it may not result in your desired response, but it seems as if you are truly ready to face whatever is coming as long as you KNOW WHAT IT IS. I am a firm believer in what we know is not as scary as what we don't know. <BR>I would give it a few more days and then say something like, "H, I know you have had some time to read and reflect on my letter and I just want to tell you that I meant everything in it. I do love you, I am willing to work to repair the damage and I want us to be married. But, if you can't begin the work with me, I am not going to be able to do it alone and I want us to be honest with each other about our next steps. I need some feedback from you about where we go from here. If you continue to not respond, I will take that as your way of saying you can't commit to work on the marriage. As I said, if that is your answer, I will start the process." <P>You said, you may be ready to start Plan B. My reading of your letter was that it was a perfect plan b letter. You didn't give him a drop dead date, but by your verbal follow up you can inject one. Or, you can just say, "it is time you to respond." Give him a few days after that and then say, "I guess your non-response is your answer."<P>I think you are doing just great.<P>Keep us posted.<P>Wiffle<BR><P>------------------<BR>Reality<BR>It's not what you think

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by waiting_for_her:<BR><B><BR>The letter is very sweet, and all that, but I'm getting only one message from this...pressure. The words you say are so well put, and loving, really...but he has the message now, and its time to let up a little, and see what he does, you know? <P>-Mike</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Lynn, <BR>i guess this is what i was feeling. mike just said it so nice and diplomatic. <P>i can relate to you because i am a letter writer. my ex and i e-mail each other all the time. some good, but some no so good. even thgough i have not read all of your posts, i feel you. your h is sort of like mine. he doesn't want to make any changes right now. he is doing just enough to keep you clinging. <P>you said he is not abusive, but i beg to differ. if he is not giving you any answers to your questions that is emotional torture, and is abusive... i am sure he is not the overbearing and controlling person my ex is, but there is definately a similarity...<P>you seem to be similar to me in that you love him and would be willing to do and/or take just about anything to have him back in your life. if it were me i would go camping. nobody would be able to tell me otherwise. but it probably wouldn't work out best for me, because i would have the feeling that things were going to work out my way. i would want to strat acting like things were getting back to normal. i would start thinking i could see him, call him, be with him whenever i wanted to until he said something like, "we don't have to talk or be together everyday do we?" then i would be crushed. most times my hurt and pain are self inflicted. i want one thing he wants something else. <BR> <BR>it might seem that i am taking about myself, but sometimes it is easier for me to give any type of constructive critisism by relating it to myself. i could be all wrong. this is only my perception of it...<P>just always remember, "all things work together for the good for those who love the Lord and are called accoring to His purpose."<P>God bless Lynn<P>love kim... <BR>

Yes, My friend Mike has a way of being brutally honest without being brutal at all. He always leaves me with something to think about or some new perspective on my situation. <P>Thanks to all who have responded so far. It really helps to have others relate to what I'm going thru.<P>Lynn

I thought I should add that H told me "I love it when you write me letters"<P>I guess the letter didn't cause too much damage afterall. <P>Lynn

I am new here and not so good at offering advice. But, your letter touched me. Especially about what your 5 year old said about daddy loving him but not you. I have heard that a few times even though my son is not my husbands and he just turned 5. I think that comes from us trying to protect our childrens feelings.<P>You were to the point in your letter no sobbing (that is what I ultimately end up doing) just honest and very respectible. I understand wanting to work things out too...the knowing that you have done ALL that you can do. I think you did the right thing. I wish you the best of luck and take care of you and your kids.<P>K

The advice I've received from counsellor about ultimatums is to use them only when you're willing and able to carry them out... immediately. There was nothing equivocal about your letter! Are you sure he's read it? It sounds like you're definitely ready for Plan B.

I updated this story in my camping thread. to camp or not to camp. I think the answer is "not to camp". The kids will not understand but my heart will.<P>Thanks for your support. I feel like I'm dying tonight. I guess it's just another stage in the greiving process. I've been having sharp pains in my left shoulder and arm today and tonight. I think I can actually feel my heart breaking. <P>Lynn PS. Mike I didn't get your reply you mentioned in my other thread. I appreciate you letting me know how you feel and how you are doing. I miss "talking" to you.