Thanks all, I have received great advice. My attitude is somewhat relieved but I believe I am getting a bit angry in my youth. The point was made, and it was a valid one, that divorce is not easy. I agree. If however, it is, then why pray does one get married in the first place. As I look back on all of the things I did to place my marriage in jeopardy, I first asked myself, why did I marry my wife and make a committment I might possibly not be able to keep. I understand, people change and things change and such, but we all know that. Perhaps we are a bit more mature now, but I cant honestly say that I didnt know that divorce was something that may have been a possibility. If that is so, then why did I make a LIFELONG committment to my wife. Certainly, I must have known they were going to be problems and such, but really why not just say. "I do, unless of course there are somethings I dont like about you that I dont know about right now" While I do understand there are LEGITIMATE reasons for divorce (adultery/abuse) I dont understand why people give up for the "not in love" thing and go off and commit adultery. I stand in awe of all of you who have stuck it out in the most dire of circumstances. I beleive that is what committment IS. However, I just dont understand why we go through the motions and make promises we all have no intentions of keeping. This is just something I have been thinking about. Not judging etc, just starting a discussion. For me, I am struggling with deciding whether I will keep my committment (I made it) to my wife, because she and I have no reason to divorce, other than we "dont get along" blah, blah, blah. No adultery, just poor decisions and debt. All solvable problems. It just strikes me as odd, that vows are so made with conviction and love, but are so easily tossed by the wayside by some.<P>Just trying to vent and get some discussion

I know exactly what you are saying....That is the whole reason my Husband wants a divorce...finances and little arguments...sometimes big ones but, rarely. I feel that love and comittment can conquer all but I am a believer in marriage and he is not...has not spoke to me in over a month and baby is due in 3 weeks.<P>I always told him I loved him and we could make it through anything given time and counseling but he did not agree...he said it was over long before it started...and he did not love me the way he should...oh that is nice to hear especially when I am pregnant he is not supposed to have kids and wanted one of his own so badly...and we have only been married almost 7 months (yes the date got moved up when we found out I was pregnant.)<P>To me there has not been enough time to try anything...<P>Hang in there this board is helping me out a lot. Divorce laws are too easy....they allow it to be to easy for people to just walk out...and some do not have the strength or willingness to keep trying...I am a firm believer in my vows that is why he has to file on me...I will not....I have sought counsel on questions but nothing more.<P>Keep your faith...<P>K

I have not posted any opinions in a while, trying to be supportive in the back round. But this is a topic I just could not stay away from.<P>I believe the answer is going to vary depending on whether you are a bs or a ws. I am a bs and for months I have been pondering this very question. When we make these vows, we are saying “I love you forever, I will be true and faithful, and I am willing to weather any storm with you, "till death do us part". “<P>In the last 8 months since I found out about the OW, I have really done some sole searching. Those of you who are the BS and have stayed to weather the storm, know what I mean. I was faced with the decision to stay and support my H until he found "what he was searching for" or to just jump ship. Now I am young and pretty successful in business, not too bad looking, and knew I would be okay on my own. But there was this “VOW” thing I kept playing over and over in my mind. I would spend days wondering why I married this man, I obviously know nothing about (After 10 years). I thought about our shared life long goals, work ethics, cleaning habits, sports, hobbies, friends, family......I thought about what we built togther in 10 years. What we accomplished and how people looked up to us. I started to realize we had become a team. Not just two people with things in common, but two people working togther to acheive the same goal. hmmm, a goal we had forgotten about in our busy lives. Well I decided, I would honor my vows and weather the storm. But I went a step further, I found web sites and bought books, trying to learn everything I could about what HE is going through and what HE needs, that I obviously did not provide. <P>Wow!! What I found out was that he and I had a totally different outlook on life. Yes love is supposed to be unconditional, but that can only be taken so far before you realize you have needs and your partner has needs and they need to be met. I never realized he needed some things that I could care less about. I spent so much time in the last maybe 6 years thinking he needed and wanted, what I needed and wanted, I actually neglected him in a way. Maybe for even more than 6 years. I am not sure I ever really filled all his needs. But you know how new relationships are. That is all you do is try to fill their needs, be happy and show them you are the “one” for them. Then somewhere down the line, you forget that part. So that is what I started working on. All of a sudden I saw in him, the man I wanted to grow old with all over again. Not who he was at that very minute, but who he is inside.<P>Then it was clear, I wanted to live and share every aspect of my life with this man. THAT is why I married him.<P>I realize he has lost his way, and can't see through the fog and that perhaps I helped him get where he is at. So, now I am doing what I can to help him find his way home. Sort of help him to remember why HE made those "VOWS". Who knows what will happen in the future. I do know that if we divorse, I will have done everything I could possibly do to honor my life long promises to him.<P>So you see, we marry to have a life long companion, who we can share new experiences with. They may not always be good experiences, but if we support one another in our times of need, we can be successful at anything life throws our way! This will bring us to our ultimate goal "Growing old together and loving each other ever step of the way"<P>Sorry if I went on too long! I am hoping I made some sense. <P>E_W_S<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by eyes_wide_shut (edited August 31, 2001).]

You make a great point Robc. In you original post you said<BR>"I dont understand why people give up for the "not in love" thing and go off and commit adultery." Well in my case its not adultery and its not the person who is "not in love" thats thinking of leaving. My H says he loves me and cant stand the idea of living without me and our daughter. For 7 years he showed that in many ways, everyday. Now I am convinced he doesnt feel that way despite what he says. I worry that soon enough he will go off and commit adultery. I dont understand why he SAYS he loves me and doesnt want to leave and acts like he does. Wouldnt it actually be better to divorce because of "not being in love" than to commit adultery?

i think that when people get married they are so in love with idea of being in love that they don't give way to all the serious effort you will have to put into it to make it a long lasting relationship... lots of people don't like to fight for what is right. it is just easier to throwin the towel...i find that most of the people in this site are fighters... they want their marriages and they still have a somewhat starryeyed aspect of their marriage...<P>i do... i love my stbx... i want us to grow old together and live happliy ever after...<P>i emplore you to not give up because of financial reason or silly stuff like dumb tit for tat arguements... there is always an out, a ram in the bush so to speak...<P>if you trust in God that is a step in the right directions there... faith is imperative. don't be discouraged... fight... remember both play a part in the demise of a realtionship... sometimes it just takes one humble person to turn things around...<P>that is where i went wrong... got tired of being humble... this is something one can never tire of... i have learned that it's true, but i still have not larned how to stay there... <P>guess i better look up myself...<P>be encouraged,<P>kim...

This is the kind of discussion I am talking about. All of them great.<P>EWS: I could not have said it better than you. How eloquent and to the point. That is EXACTLY what I am talking about.<P>For me, and I dont know everyones religious beliefts and not that it really matters, but both my wife and I made vows to one another and God, sort of a triangle. I did not just vow to my wife but also God. It is for this reason that I feel led to remain committed to my wife. Christ said that divorce was only allowed by God for adultery and the greek used by Him was a term for adulterous lifestyle. Paul further detailed the marriage relationship between man and wife, specifically for Christians. For believers, separation IS an alternative but it comes with a price - staying unmarried OR being reconciled. And that is my quandry. All logic and rational thought dictates that God certainly would want me to have a happy life with someone and this is wear I believe getting married gets sticky, especially for a Christian. While logic says one thing, God DEMANDS something entirely differt ("My thoughts are not your thoughts, my ways are not your ways" kind of things) and thus I am stuck. After careful thought and analysis, my logic dictates that I am stuck with my wife for life. This leads me back to my original point and puzzlement. Marriage is far to easy to get into and equally easy (civily speaking) to erase. Perhaps we ARE to in love to make good decisions and understand the implications of those vows we make to God and one another. Am I wrong?

Nope - Rob you are right on target! I'm not sure how to convince the other person you are right. Or if they would even care if they kknew you were right... Quandry - yup - big one....<P>Hang in there. Jan

Just bumping this up

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by eyes_wide_shut:<BR><B>Just bumping this up</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

I believe that if a person doesn't take a chance in life then what good is life? There are no guarantees in life. I honestly do think that certain circumstances can change ones view of someone. I think people can fall in and out of love very quickly. I think that times have changed and our society has made it much easier for us to do so. It makes you wonder years ago when people were living in the middle of no where if they often felt the same way but were just stuck in the place they were and who they were with. They were forced to depend on eachother for their very survival.<P>No matter if you get married or not there will probably always be someone. No matter what if you give your heart you risk getting hurt. <P>Do I believe in marriage? Yes,I think it can be a wonderful thing. Do I still believe that a marriage will last into old age NO.<P>JIll

Bump..

Like everyone, I'm sure my response will mainly explore my personal experience.<P>I got married because it was the right thing to do (expecting baby) and got divorced because she wasn't "Happy", "In-Love", and "Needed to find herself".<P>OK all that being said it is my opinion that a majority of the people that get married/divorced are not married out of love but out of lust. Most all relationships start out in a lustful state and from that state they will slowly grow to a love stage and finally blossom into that "In-Love" feeling. I believe that most people get married while still in the lust stage thinking that they are in-love. I also believe that "love" is a choice so when the lust wears away they interpret it as falling out of love and therefore choose not to take the next step of choosing to love.<P>In my personal relationship we married out of lust which quickly wore away and I chose to love and my x chose to "live with it". Eventually came a time (10 years + or -) when she decided she was not "in-love" which was obvious because she never chose to "love" therefore she never progressed to the stage of "in-love".<P>What y'all think???<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

Bill I do agree. That is a great analogy. <P>Think about it, when you are young, and can barely even get you pants off in time to do "IT", you have almost no stress, no obligations. By the time Life comes into play, that feeling begins to ware off, and I can see someone thinking they fell out of love, when instead, that is where they needed to choose the love they have built to go forward.<P>okay we need more input!<P>E_W_S

Rob,<P>You're right to question... <P>I had written a long response to you, but decided that it wasn't helpful to your situation. Hense the edit.<P>I wish you peace... and I hope that you can forgive yourself... and find love again.<p>[This message has been edited by Nyneve (edited September 06, 2001).]

Good question...<P>I think everybody deserves a chance to make a life-time commitment...once...and that is called marriage. Nobody knows what marriage will be like when they enter it. The ones who are capable of keeping their commitments find a way to do it. <P>Multiple or subsequent couplings are not a marriage, IMO. I suppose if someone could prove that abuse or adultery occurred by the other party, then they could be "released".<P>I don't think WS's should have the benefit of remarriage--and that includes myself. The only person who can redeem them, in terms of marriage, is the BS. If the BS chooses not to do so, then too bad. <P>Even if the WS decides to remarry, their new partner will never "forget" either. Even if the WS is not with the original BS, they will be forced in a new marriage to be subservient and less than their partner--no matter what lessons they say they learned. That is ok if they are happy being subservient and inferior. <P>Any marriage with a WS (current or future) will never be a marriage of equals--unless they marry another WS and then they basically have formed a marriage between two "untouchables". That is ok. At least they have companionship and some solace with which to eek out whatever remains of their life. <P>If they marry a previous BS, their entire existence becomes one long apology, an endless thank you for "accepting" one as lowly as themselves. Personally, I'd rather be celibate the rest of my life. Maybe that is what they had in mind in the Bible.