I was thinking tonight as I packed some stuff, he was saying to me "You KNOW our marriage has been in trouble for years." I don't think so. We had ups and downs like normal people, but it was always good, and supportive, until we came over here. <P>Now I can see all the pressures we had to face, and there were lots. And I could see the enormous strain he was under. He would not let me help him. So I didn't know how to. I had not found this site back then...if I had it may never had got this far.<P>I am angry that he blames the bulk of this on me and all my wrong-doings....but he does it generally "It's not any one thing, it's everything." This hurts so much. <P>I am angry now too, all day under my breath I have been calling him names, for hurting us all so much, for being selfish, for once again betraying my trust and for not seeming to care that he is about to lose his family....well he cares about the kids, but he won't even SAY so unless I prompt him.<P>So I am glad at least I can get away from the hurtful comments, the trying to get him to talk to me, the pain of seeing his face, because he hates being around me, the LB's, and the children's aches when he goes. <P>I'm tired of the battle to look good when I feel that I'm the most unattractive creature on earth, to look like I feel good, when I am so down, to appear that I'm coping when I'm not. I'm tired of trying to meet his needs when he won't tell me what they are in fact says "I don't need anyone or anything." I'm tired of never having my needs met. I'm tired of his stupid wall and his stupid fog. I have never in my life felt so alone.<P>I just want to go home and get some love from my family, and let them run things for a little while. I cried tonight when a plane flew over our house...I would love to stay here and work on my marriage, but I can't do it alone, and he won't even meet me half way. <P>I guess I'm just venting again. Thanks for reading.<P>Jacky <BR>

It was a good vent. I could echo just about every word, too. I hope it helped you- it always helps me.<P>Now, get back to packing!<P>

Do you take size 9 boots????? Thanks dabigtrain, getting right on it. I'll do an hour then I'll be back...it's 9.11pm here, so I figure I will have done the quota for today by then.<P>See ya if you're still around!!<P>Jacky

Hi Jackie,<P><BR>I felt I had to reply because I felt the exact same way as you described. I feel extremely frustrated and I don't see any end in sight. I try to focus on 'just one day at a time' and try to survive today.<P>Please hang in there!<P>Jim

Jacky,<P>Know how you feel. <P>after everthing esle, all the hurt pain, etc, you are the one who is having to do all the work of moving on<P>I still haven't managed to unpack eveything from storage & shipment back to the states. There are so many nagging little problems that I just get so angry about it. I feel I didn't want this, but yet I have to deal with all the hassel.<P>Just think in a wk you will be back home. I wish I could had I am several hrs like 12 to 14 away from my family, but it is better than the other side of the world

Thanks Jim,<P>I hope someone has welcomed you to our group by now...I've been busy today, so I haven't been able to concentrate on reading others' posts much.<P>Yeah, if you don't know already, what we're feeling is called the rollercoaster ride, and when we're low, that's the low part of the ride. It stinks. But thank you, I will hang in there. I have three beautiful kids, and they keep me going, giving love and smiles and needing attention, so I am so thankful for them right now. I am the major grown up in their lives now, and I have to make decisions they might not like, but they trust me, and have hardly argued the point of going back home, even though I know they have big issues about it. <P>They are so special, my gift from God at this horrible time. My oldest has an old soul, if you know what I mean, and while we should never, ever depend on the kids to get us through, the wisdom of his eight year old brain has kept me anchored.<P>Sing, <P>thanks for the support. You know I was thinking about the moving thing today. We moved from Oz to SA. Three months later to Mozambique. Six months later to our new house in Mozambique. Six months again back to SA. Eight months later to OZ. And guess who's done every bit of organising for that? Yep, me.....and until this time he appreciated it, but doesn't THAT stink!!!<P>I'll let you in on a bit of an LB I'm doing, and intentionally ...but I don't care. I gotta get some small perks from this!!!! <P>We are in a fully furnished house, but there are things in the kitchen and linen press, and actually all over that are ours too. A big mix. I don't want any of it....I had to buy a lot of stuff here that I already had in Australia...big mix-up with his first company meant that wnhen they said we would have everything we needed, they didn't mean a heck-ava-lot of stuff. Anyway, since I don't need this doubled up stuff, I am not sorting it. So when he goes to Mozambique in January, he's going to have fun trying to work out what's his and what's not. Well, maybe he'll see I did have some value after all!!! <P>I thank you for your comments....I am low, though I know this post doesn't sound like it. But I really can't wait to get back home and chill for a while. Maybe I'll even get to go out!!!<P>Jacky

Jacky:<P>Come here and vent early and often. Tha t is why we are here-to help each other. I understand how you feel-I think we all do to some extent. And know that he is tearing down the past of your R to erase his own guilt. Of course things were good times before-even as things got bad, i am sure there was much more good than bad. All they can see-or want to see-is the bad. The good is forgotten or shoved under the rug.<P>Go to your family, soak in their love. You have earned it. Love your kids, and heal. None of us have ever seen you, but from your posts you clearly have a beautiful soul, and I bet that is reflected on the outside too. Do some things just for yourself-silly things, frivolous things, indulgeent things. When i hit especially low points, i go get a milk shake.<P>Godspeed, and know there are many of us here who are praying and pulling for you.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{jacky}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>i have not read any of your prior posts all the way through... i mostly read and post at work and i really shouldn't be. NE way, i read this one and i feel very sad for you... <P>I am so sorry that you are going through this.. I was making a big deal about you being in south africa, but it looks like i put my foot in my mouth... i know you have said it, but do you mind telling me again where you are about to go... gosh, it makes me feel like a big a** crybaby for complaining about my crap... my husband sent me a really nice e-mail and even though i am trying to hate him i have to admit the words are encouraging.. i want to share them with you...<P>the story of the lame man in John 5, who laid by the pool of healing for thirty eight years, and blamed everyone else for not being healed. Jesus simply asked him in the KJ version "Wilt thou be made whole", the NKJ phrases it "Do you want to get well"<BR> <BR>I know it's been hell. I know it's hell now. You have every reason in the world to throw in the towel and give up, and any person with a reasonable measure in intelligence would understand. But i dont' believe that's what you want to do. Do you really want to get well? Are you willing to do what it takes? Can you just get up from the mess (and it's a hell of a mess) and walk away to never revisit it again? There are so many people, including myself, who deeply care and are willing to help you. <BR> <BR>After the man made more excuses, never answering the question, Jesus simply told him, "take up your bed and walk..." <BR> <BR>1 Samuel 30:6 says "And David was greatly distressed;... but David encouraged himself in the Lord his God" <BR> <BR>This is like recovery. This is not for the kids, nor for me. You gotta do this for yourself. Kim don't give up on yourself! When nobody else believes, you gotta believe. The hell with how my dumb butt acts, what I think or what the situation looks like. <BR> <BR>I know it's in you. You know what to do. Be like Nike "Just Do It! Maybe for a while you "gotta fake it til you make it" You know, tell yourself you're happier than you really are. Tell yourself it's better than it really is. Believe the best in me and yourself, when the facts tell you you're crazy. Eventually your reality will catch up to your new mentality. <BR> <BR>I can remember playing golf with your dad, and always wanting to beat him. There were times we'd have played 12, 14 holes and I'd be right on his butt. One or two strokes from finally beating him, and I'd mess up. Hit the ball in the lake, over the fence or miss it all together. I'd be mad as hell. Dissappointed. And he'd always say "You know that score you just got. You need to be happy with it, cause it could always be much worse." He's so right. If I had been losing by 8 or 10 strokes, I probally won't have cared. And you know, I've taken his philosophy into everything I do. Yeah, it could be better, but it could always be a hell of alot worse. <BR> <BR>Don't give up. Don't give in. "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, lean not to your own understanding, acknowledge Him in all your ways and He shall direct your path." For we know that "all things work together for good for them that love the Lord and are the called according to His purpose."<BR> <BR>I love you. <P>NE way... if you can get any encouragement out of this use it... just put jacky in the place of kim...<P>love from cali,<P>kim...

(((((((((((((((((ANB3 and Kim))))))))))))))))))))))<P>That is a thank you cyber hug. I felt so encouraged by both your posts, and I am really, really touched that in the face of your own problems, you are taking the time to think of me.<P>ANB3, yes, he is tearing down our past. He refuses to see that anything I did was a good thing...look below for one prime example. I am such a bad girl. I'm supposed to feel worthless in this, but as the anger builds, I'm seeing that he was very selfish in our relationship, and a lot of our LB's in the past were caused by this. As I said above in other posts, I have had enough. I need the space that home provides me to preserve the small amount of love I have left for him....and believe me, he was my passion. And I do vent here often...mostly when I get the urge to phone him and blast him.<P>idostylin, I wrote on your post tonight, so I won't go into detail here too much, but I want you to know that you shouldn't be worried in any way for referring to my being in SA. The decision to come here was ours, we made it together, admittedly I was reluctant, but I wanted to support him. <P>You know, before we left, I said to him, regarding Mozambique really, as we didn't know we'd end up here at the time...."I don't know if I am strong enough for all the challenges that will take place with this new job...it could be the test of our marriage." He really went overboard to reassure me time and again about how we had each other, we would be there for each other etc. He wanted the job and the money and the possible prestige that went with it. And six months after he was promoted to manager, suddenly I'm not good enough. <P>He only had this opportunity because I didn't put my foot down, which is what I really wanted to do...I was SO worried about health issues for our kids, and crime, too. He had an answer foir everything. But I chose to support him, because I THOUGHT it would mean a better future for US. I told him this a short while ago...he said my support wasn't important, whatever THAT means!!! Well if I'd known that before we left, I bloody well wouldn't have come here!!!!<P>Sorry, sorry, I don't want to be bitter....but I am just so resentful of the lack of respect from him right now. I feel, like a lot of people here that we have done everything our spouses wanted AND IT STILL WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH. That's one reason I'm getting out.<P>I hope you can forgive this rant....I just am so tired of it all, and i am also missing Mike, he has such good calming advice.<P>

you can rant on my thread anytime... i feel exaclty the same... i miss mikes calming words also... but i am glad i am getting to know you...<P>keep you head up and i will keep my head up...<P>i have to move out of my house soon... we have lived there since my 14 y/o daughter was 8 mos old... that is going to be hard for me too... i am also expecting final d papers in the mail any day... i actually go home looking for them.. why??? i am going to fall apart when i see them... i mst be dying to suffer... HA HA!!!<P>

No, it's not that. You are preparing yourself. Just like I am. I haven't checked yet, I don't know if my h can file for divorce while I am in Oz and he is in SA....but I'm betting that when he comes back to Oz at Christmas, he may well do it. I am prepared for that awful possibility.<P>Why do you have to move out soon? I just do not know your story right now, though I know I've read some of your posts....and anyway if he is the culprit, why should you move? Why not kick him out, for want of a better expression?<P>Just one word of advice...I am determined to take my kids (he cannot look after them anyway cos of work) because by Oz law, if the wife abandons her kids, she probably won't get them back. Take them with you, whatever you do!!!<P>Take care,<P>Jacky<P>------------------<BR>"When the going gets tough, the tough get going" - Nina's dad.

i am moving because i hate that friggen house... it is a piece of crap and i don't want to be there anymore... he moved out in May, and said he is never going back... we all hate it... it is like a bad memory...<P>so it is no problem moving, i am just no tlooking forward to the work and the memories..<P>no way is going to even want the kids and becasue they are big there is no way they are going with him... so i have no problems there...

Kim,<P>Well, you go girl!!!<P>I am worried about having a place of MY OWN. You too? When I go back to Oz, I will be with my parents, but they can only put up with us so long...and me them!!! But it is the first time in 15 years that I have had to cope by myself.<P>At least I will have done something...he doesn't think I'm capable of making decisions on my own...it's just that when we were together, I didn't do anything without consulting him; well that's because I considered it a partnership. <P>That is why he is so shocked I have actually booked and paid for tickets "all by myself". I tell you, the thought that just crosed my mind was this "WHY is it such a surprise? I coped well enough before I met him, and he knew this....did he think I'd forgotten how to do things for myself?" And the answer is YES, he did think that. Well tough. I HAVE to go on, for my kids, just like you, and girl, WE CAN BE STRONG WHEN WE WANT TO BE!!!<P>Take care,<P>jacky

Hi Jacky,<P>I haven't posted to you yet, just read alot. It's amazing how many women have this happen to them after a big move away. I only moved two states over to Michigan, but within a month I found out there was an OW. From there I found out that there were a bunch of OW's in the past that I was clueless about. So there I was with a big new house, at-home mom for 9+ years, and lots of debt that he ran up (yes HE ran up, phony business trips that never got reimbursed). I know how you feel even tho I'm at least within 3 hours of family. But still, here in Michigan I had only one friend, my church, and MB that helped me thru this ordeal.<P>I almost sold my home this summer to go home, but it fell thru, thank God. I decided I love it here. It's so much nicer than where my family lives and I'm finally not scared anymore to stay here because I love it. I was going home out of fear. That's just how it worked out for me and I guess I'm trying to say that you just may be surprised at how strong you will become in time. Not that I'm suggesting to stay there, but just that you will gain your strength back along the way (and maybe even decide you are beautiful again).<P>The other thing, don't for a moment think that the OW wants you or the kids to stay. She probably orchestrated that little outing with the kids to give you a push to go. I know mine was jumping for joy when she thought I was moving because she didn't have to deal with me, but NOW she will have to eventually (boo hoo). The difference is I have never met or seen this woman yet, and the X has not had the audacity to put the kids together with her even tho they live together and he has had the chance.<P>I've been divorce for 6 months now. He never sees his kids. I really am better off without him. I think to how miserable I would have been had he come back. I now cannot imagine my life with him in it anymore. He changed my entire past so that every memory now means something else to me, and now my future is unknown when I used to have it all planned out. I believe that God has a much better plan for me and basically turned the spotlight on him so I wasn't a fool anymore.<P>Jacky, I know you still love him because even after all I found out I still loved him. I believe in time (if your H continues with this) you will be happier on your own or with another wonderful man, and he has only misery in front of him. There will be a day when he won't believe how much he messed up his life and wish he'd never left his family for that trash he's with.<P>Packing is a pain. I know, I packed up my whole house to move back to Illinois, and then the deal fell thru and I took the house off the market. Then I had to UNPACK. Talk about a double whammy. Take care.<P><BR>------------------<BR>Kathy<BR><p>[This message has been edited by weirded out (edited August 31, 2001).]

Jacky,<P>I love your LB's. That is right make him do it. <P>While I didn't pack us up to move back (wish I had, I wouldn't have some of the stupid stuff that I have here), when I put "his stuff" out for him there are usually a few goodies in those boxes. <P>1. ex. STBX just had the packers come in & pack everything, he didn't pay attention to taking out the items that shouldn't come. I have appliances here, they don't work since the US can't use the same system as the rest of the world. so i put some of these usless appliiances i there.<P>2. then a few yrs ago I gave him these books abou 1001 nigths of great sex & 1001 nights of great romance. if they use them I will be in the back of their mind or otherwise he can throw them around<P>3. might last I haven't done yet but the boys will give it to him for Christmas. I have kept 95% of the photos. For Christmas each boy will give their dad an album of their life.<P>I should let it go but I guess I may not want him back but I hate the thought that he is/or might be happy with that little @@@*@*@*@*@*.<P>Glad that you don't have to pack a whole house, just unpacking one is a pain.

hey jacky,<P>you still up girl... i thought for sure you would be in bed by now...

probably not... at least you shouldn't be...<P>yes!!! i am scared do death... i have not been on my own for 21 years... that's how long i was with my ex... would have been 16 years married on october 5th, 2001 <P>i know i can be strong, but right now i am scared to death...

Hi,<P>Yes I did eventually go to sleep last night at 2.30 am. My mum caught me online to have an instant chat...so that's why it was so late.<P>So I thought I'd chck in here before I get started on my packing for the day.<P>Weirdedout, I know full well that OW (and probably h too)did that to push me out the door. Well, she won...for now. As I have said I KNOW her and I know him, and she hasn't got a chance of a lasting relationship with him.<P>Interesting how you say your past was changed by what you found out....my past, according to him, was nothing like I remember it, and was horrible....gee, there must be something wrong with me!!! I though he was happy for 15 of our 17 years together, he says it was the other way around, only happy for two. Come on, no one is that good an actor!!!<P>Regarding leaving or staying....come January I have no choice anyway, as we are here in this country on his work visa. I just feel what is the point of staying the whole time. And getting back there at Christmas...no houses available, no jobs. Maybe this way I can be in my own place before then.<P>sing,<P>LO about your little boxes! I am a bit worried what I will find in my stuff when it arrives in Oz. I have a feeling he'll go through it and remove things like photos. I told him I don't want ANY of the soveneirs, (he said, oh well, they'll get home eventually) but I bet I find some of them that make the trip. And of course, I will have to go through our housefull of stored stuff in Oz, there will be things there that are his...yuck. I'll just give them to his mum.<P>idostylin, it's not nice to think about is it, but we will make it. We WILL! I am starting to believe in myself and my ability to care for my kids on my own...at least I think I am!!! But I am also scared. That I will have to settle us, get a job, deal with my pain, etc etc. But at least I have family and friends there.<P>What a road we are given.<P><P>------------------<BR>"When the going gets tough, the tough get going" - Nina's dad.

I hate to see anyone go through this. It is awful and uncalled for. Here he is blaming you and trying to tell you that it has been bad for some time. Well, that sounds all to familiar...my STBX said it was over before it started. It is funny how when you read someone elses post and it hits home and you realize what they were really doing when they said it to begin with. He is trying to get excuses for things being the way are and his selfishness. He is trying to blame so much on you and not himself so that he can go on. One day he will see the error of his ways. I am sure he already does, he just will not admit that to anyone not even himself. But his selfishness will only eat him up inside. If he is a normal human being and does not fess up to what he has done to contribute....it will hurt him for the rest of his life.<P>I am so sorry. Enjoy your family...I know if I did not move with mine and have these support groups on-line I would have not made it as far as I have as quickly. You take care.<P>K

Thanks K,<P>Yes the lines he has given me since he left are exactly what everyone else has had to hear. It's a justification for his behaviour...His logic is "I am a good person, and I need a scapegoat for my disgusting selfishness." I am afraid he will NEVER see what he has done; he hates to admit he's wrong.<P>Had some bad moments today...had to sort the photos. In the end, I just put them in a pile, and HE can pick what he wants. <P>Too tired to cook anything so we ordered in. Nice to spoil myself once in a while.<P>Then OD tells me that last Sunday, my YS told OW she wished she was her mummy...giggles from both girls. OH YES, that is SO funny! It killed me to hear that. I know she didn't mean it, she's almost four, and confused about why her dad was with another woman, but I just bet OW uses that for milage. She would be gloating over it . Anyway they all start talking about that day, and I said "Not another word about OW thank you." OD said "Does it hurt your feelings?" I was honest and told her it did, very much, but they wouldn't be seeing her again, so let's forget about her. So then they start telling me that dad told them he was going to have a party.What for? To celebrate our going???? .<P>He will come and get the kids tomorrow. I have been Plan A'ing every time he has been here, but I think I won't do the full version tomorrow...in fact it will be very difficult to even look at him after what I've been through the last few days.<P>sigh.