<BR>If anyone has had expierence finding a counsler,for myself, wife won`t go, Im open for any suggestions.

Confused........<P> If you don't have insurance to cover therapy. Look into the state and see if there is a Center there for that. Here there is one that you pay what you can afford if you don't have insurance or the money. Here they go by your income. I know had a girlfriend that went there and at the time they hardly made anything a month. I think each session she had to pay only like 2 dollars. So might want to call your family physician see if they know of a place or a thereapist in that place that would be good for you. I also went to this same place but had insurance so they charged me the full amount. Let me know what ya find out. Hope this helps some. BTW I am still numb here I still see no light for me. I do keep praying and try to keep busy with kids and work I guess. ALthough my jobs are only part time. Hang in there thats all we can do.

Confused,<P>The best way to find a counselor, like anything else, is to get recommendations from friends. (Assuming you have friends that you know to have been to a counselor.) If you are a church going man, your pastor will probably be able to help. I was more or less assigned my counselor by the company health plan, and she turned out to be great. But the company had prescreened the counselors they use, so that was great.<P>Wonder,<P>Your good-byes like "I am still numb here I still see no light for me… Hang in there thats all we can do." leave me feeling a bit defeated. I don't believe that's all we can do. And if there is no light at the end of the tunnel, start digging another way out. There are lots of things I have been able to do in terms of personal development, exploring my values and attempting to bring my actions in line with them, etc. And the better I get at it, the better I feel. My ex is loosing her ability to make me feel any way I don't want to feel. This is because I am learning to take responsibility for my own emotions through my own actions. Nobody can "make" you feel anything. You make the feelings yourself. For example, let's say you and Confused and I were in a room together and all of a sudden I got really angry and started yelling. One of you might respond by getting angry and yelling back. The other might be very afraid of me. It's the same action on my part, but the emotional response to that action is completely different depending on the person. A perfect person would state assertively that he/she was not willing to discuss the issue in this manner and would be willing to talk about it once I calmed down.<BR>

Nonpulsed......<P> Well my friend right now or at times I guess I do feel defeated. I know only I am responible for my emotions. But depression changes that or can. As somedays are better then others. I try and think positive I really do. But there are times I feel its impossiible. Depression is an illness and I am trying to deal with it as best as I can or know how. People can make your emotions worse if ya get my drift there. Like say things or do that bring you back down. My spouse has a tendecy to do that too. He countridicts all the time. He puts guilt trips on me for things I should not feel guilty for. Or is sarcastic at saying things and I hate him doing and saying this stuff. Like I have in the past I keep my mouth shut so no fights come from it. But not always sometimes if I have to I will say something or mention it later how that hurt etc from him doing or saying what he did. Seems does not matter he countridicts. I think he thinks he still has control when he does this. Controlling people are so wrong and even after these past 2 years he still trys. And whats worse is they don't see it. Well sorry nonpulsed I am having one of those down days today. Guess just needed to venge. Confused lets try and hang in there.

Wonder- nonplused does have a point. Sometimes it seems like you have given up. Don`t give up wonder. Ther has been time I wanted to give up and to be honest with you it was you or nonplused or someone else that had picked me up for that day and had given me some type of hope. Hope is all that we can hope for. That`s all I live for right now and sometimes, I know this might sound weak, but if it wasn`t for you people talking to me I might have given up already. But I know I love my wife and family very much and I won`t give up until I know in my heart it`s over. Wonder, do you think it`s over for you? I know I have asked you this before but in your heart do you think It is over?You really need to think about this. I know in my heart it is not. I hope my wife does not htink it is. If she did I think she would already be gone. I need to fix this somehow, but I don`t know how.

Confused.......<P> To be honest with you in my heart the love for him I once had is over and gone. I figure if it has not come back in 2 years it won't. That might sound mean and selfish but I gave all I had to give for 14 years been togther almost 17. I love my kids very much that is why I am still here. And like I said I am scared. When school starts back again I am going to find me another part time job. Just enough to fill what I need to support me and my kids. I cannot stand the sarcastic remarks I get anymore. I grin and bare them and sometimes I say something. Coarse when is say something it always comes back to me. I don't know what or how to feel in love anymore. Thats gone and buried. Someday I hope God lets me feel that again the way i was meant to feel it as I thought I felt it at one time. No I cannot live like this till my kids are grown either. I am not really young but in my late 30s and life like I said before is to short to be unhappy. I still have bad days but not as many as I use to. I keep telling myself he had a great wife,honest ,giving,fathiful etc and he blew that right up in my face when he picked drinking and friends before me. Yes I still think about that but don't get me wrong I don't dwell on it. Its done gone I cannot take it back. Lord knows I would if I could. Yes he has changed since quit drinking but so have I. I don't let him contol me like he once did. Funny never thought it was control till I think of all the things I did for him and did ig out of love well so i thought. I'm sorry if you think this sounds cold. But I also have changed ALOT. I won't ever let anybody do that to me again you can bet on that. I want to be happy and want my kids to grow up in a happy home and right now its all a show for them pretending for me that is. We have not had sex in months. When we have tryed it was a disaster is the best way to describe. I am not sexually attracted to him anymore either. I miss that more then anybody knows. I see other couples out and happy holding hands etc and I want to feel that again someday. So right now I go without the hugs,kisses and the rest that goes with it. It kills me cause I am a romantic person. He never has been. Not even when we were dating. I wish he would have been at one time or another but never has been. He use to complain about getting me gifts for x-mas and b-day etc. Funny thing was all i wanted is for me to know he put an effort into that all on his own. No instead he acted like it was a chore. You know how that makes one feel? Yeh like a heel. Thats how I felt like a damn inconvince to him. Well sorry this was longer then I thought would be. Hang in there Confused at least in your heart you know .

nonplused, I don`t know anyone that has been to counseling. I guess I have to start in the phone book. <BR> Wonder, if your husband had been trying instead of making remarks do you think things would have a chance? I only ask because I have been trying with my wife and in the past I have pushed too hard and thats when the arguing would start. When it looked like things were inmproving I would try to take it that extra step and she would pull back. I look at her sleeping next to me every night just wanting to hug or kiss her and know I can`t . It breaks my heart, her not wanting to try to get affectionate and trying to have a good time together, like going out to dinner or something. She will go out to dinner with a girlfriend but not me. As each month goes by without any affection or sex, I can`t help but feel she is pushing farther and farther away from me.

Confused......<BR> <BR> If he quit the remarks no my feelings would not change. But be easier maybe to have a civil conversation. I am like your wife when he trys to touch me or hold me I pull back. Like I said the physical attraction for me its just not there. There is alot more about the sexual part between us too. For years he was not willing to try different things and I have tryed in the past. He never was one to spice that part of our life up. Now I don't want him in that way. I am not good at pretending to enjoy something like that with him. I just really miss that part of my life. Someday I hope to have that back and hope its not to late for me. I am in my prime where I really enjoy sex just nobody to enjoy it with. Its been so long for me since I have had that fullfilment in my life. It really hurts. I just try and not think about it but thats very hard too. Confused I hope it works out the way you want. I know you are trying to hang in there but somedays to me its really hard. Wonder why its happening :-( Take care all

Wonder,<P>Here's what I would try:<P>If your husband says something sarcastic, maybe take a second to catch your breath, and then reply "I really feel hurt (angry, embarrassed, whatever), I don't like to think of myself that way. Why are you saying this to me?" And then listen. He will either shut up, really get going (in which case you can be assured that he is simply taking emotions out on you and you don't have to believe him), or he might actually have something that is bothering him. Sometimes openness and assertiveness will give him cause to think and look for himself to see if he is addressing the issue correctly. Of course, it might not do anything either, depending where he is at.<BR>

confused58:<P>I've been to three theapists. A psychiatrist (useless), a well-known psychologist (nearly useless for my marriage; she preached "codependency" theory), and Steve Harley here at MarriageBuilders.<P>I think the world of Steve (in fact, my wife and I have an appointment tonight). The phone counseling sounds weird, but I've found it to be very effective.<P>The Marriage Builder's philosophy is a behavioral based approach to making marriages great. It's not psychoanalytic (avoid that school)---you don't spend too much time dredging up the past. What you do learn to do is to work on behaviors that make you a better person and a better, more sensitive marriage partner. I did this counseling while my wife was having an affair (I started nearly 18 months ago). It was extremely effective: last night while we were doing our "MarriageBuilders" homework, my wife commented that the changes I've made in the last 18 months were miraculous. And they did make a big difference in the reconciliation of our marriage---in our case, I did "save" the marriage pretty much by myself (for a while... ).<P>Steve is very good: he's a combination cheerleader, coach, and mentor. At the prices they charge, he's a bargain (he was the cheapest of the three I mentioned---by a lot). The phone counseling is very convenient, and he keeps hours from 8 am Central to 10 pm: I'm not sure how he gets any sleep. I would strongly suggest that you give his office a call at 888-639-1639 and make an appointment.<P>If you're against doing phone counseling, I would suggest that the therapist you select be a behavioralist, a "Solution-oriented Brief therapist", or a "future-based" therapist. You want to find someone who you can tell: "This is where I want to be in 6 months---help me get there", and they'll help you with learning the skills to do what you hope to do. A psychoanalyst (Freudian, Jungian) will spend time looking into your past as reasons for your current problems: fascinating stuff in it's own right, but it does nothing to actually help solve the problems.

Confused.......<P> Sometimes I do say something. Most times not though. Last night I did say my aren't we being the sarcastic one. Well then coarse gets turned back on me. To tell you the truth I have gotten to the point that I don't care anymore. I was not meant to be with him and in time maybe I can do whats right for ME just once. I would really like to be happy but I know in my heart I cannot be with him. So I am going to make me happy alone as best as I can for now. I feel my light is out there somewhere for me to find it. If I end up alone with kids in the futrue well so be it. I know that might sound cold but like I said I have gotten to the point I don't care anymore. I pretend and fake my atttitude around him as best as I know how. I am a warm,honest,lovong,very giving person and someday I will get treated that way back. Take care thanks for the feed back even though have tryed most of those things. Keep in touch.

K, thanks for the feedback, did you do this counseling by yourself at first and than your wife joined you? How did you get her to join in on the counceling sessions?<BR>wonder-my wife feels like you. She said several weeks ago she lost her attraction to me. I have been beating out my brains to try to figure out why. I did nothing wrong to her but try to make her life as comfortable as possible. I am wondering if she will ever get those feelings back for me. Is it possible?

Confused.......<P> I'm sorry but I don't know if your wife can ever get those feelings back from you. Has she said why she has lost her attraction to you? If not maybe you should ask her. Maybe don't get mad please she has found another to fill those kinds of needs. I know before you have said she is not seeing anybody else. Just a thought dear. Never hurts to ask I always say. To me asking might be the only way for you to find out if you need to move on. Please keep me informed. I hope you are not upset reading this post from me though. Lets hang in there HOPE is all we have is right. But your hope is different from mine I think.

I have asked her 3 times if ther was someone else and each time she said no, she doesn`t have time for that now. She is putting all of her time in her work. As for why she fell out of love, she said we went the past few years not doing much for each other and it just happened. I`m hoping she still has some of those feeligs deep down.

Confused..........<P> Well I am glad she is not seeing someone else for your sake. As for you hope she still has some feelings deep down inside well I thought maybe if I dug deep enough I could find some too. But nothing. I did even once asked my thereapist do you think I could have buried them so deep am afraid for them to come back? She said maybe. Well I don't have them and cannot force something that just is not there. Yes i am scared and as far as trust males nope I don't at all. I am very very bitter there and I think I maybe that way for quite sometime. Like I said yesterday anymore I get to the point that I don't care anymore. Someday I hope to feel that someone will put me first. Instead of me putting everybody else first. I clean ,cook,take care of all that stuff and I feel no satisfacation in my life. I do have part time jobs but not enough as far as I am concerned. I want more work for ME. I want to come first and the only way I see that happening is for me to do it for myself. I have never felt so empty with myself in my life like I have these past 2 years. I have decided to cut my meds to half and hopefully get off them someday. So far its seems to be working ok with just one a day but I do still have my moments. Well Confused hang in there. I pray everynight someday I hope to see that answer for me waiting somewhere.

confused,<P>My story is long---but I started this counseling immediately after I discovered my wife's affair. Although she participated for a couple sessions, she was unwilling to end the affair, and her sessions with Steve were not her favorite pasttime (she hated him!!!). That hate had to do with the fact that she was having an affair; it was nothing personal.<P>Your plan should be the same as mine---you need to give your wife reasons to love you. Eliminate lovebusters was my primary focus: when your wife is getting her needs met by someone else, your effort is best spent eliminating lovebusters rather than competing to meet her needs (although you can pick your spots).<P>If your wife sees that these behaviors are benefiting her, and that you've been very consistant in execution of these new behaviors, she's going to say "Hey, what's up with this???" And she may be willing to join you. One area that Steve would work is in asking your wife to give him feedback over the phone (that's not really counseling) and by filling out the emotional needs and lovebusters questionnaires. You'll need to put forth the majority of the early work, but if you're successful, she will start falling in love with you, and then be willing to give this a try.<P>In my case, I did counseling for the 9 month period that my wife's affair lasted (after I discovered it). Steve helped me through a separation. He helped me after I moved back---my wife hadn't ended the affair, but she became pregnant by the OM. Eventually, the affair ended (2 months or so). After suffering through a three month withdrawal period, she began opening up. By this time, I had most of the skills in place to be a "great husband", and we've rebuilt our marriage very well in that time (it's been about 9 months). But recently we've started to do the counseling with Steve, jointly. There are some walls that are still up around my wife, and we need to effectively address the affair, and put it squarely in the past. But the patience and consistancy that I've shown over the last 18 months has given my wife the hope that this counseling will help, and she's even agreed (perhaps a little reluctantly) to do it with someone that she formerly couldn't stand.<P>So I'd suggest that you start. Offer it to your wife, but expect that she'll turn it down. And then do a great job, and you'll start to see positive signs in 3-6 months, most probably.<BR>

K, how many counseling sessions did you have per month? It sounds like you went through a really rough time. I am considdering calling the number you gave me. I am hoping it will keep me fom pushing my wife out . Ther are many times I want to rush to get things repaired and I push too hard and she withdraws.<BR>wonder-there are times I look at my wife and can hardly keep from touching her, I miss the affection part of our life so much. We never were real affectionate,and I `m sorry for that now.I know she doesn`t want me to touch her and that would only make things worse if I even brought up the thought. I don`t see how she could shut all of this off at once.

My wife came home late tonight, way too much to drink, telling me the guys at yhe bar she was at with her girlfriend thought she was 29, she is 39. She also said watch what happens next, I`m outta here. I think she`s leaving real soon. I asked her if we could go out together and she said no.

confused:<P>While my wife was having the affair, I would average a session once every week to once every other week. I was learning a lot of new material, and this was a "crisis" time. The sessions became less frequent as I got the material down. After returning from my separation, I did very few sessions---my wife wasn't ready for joint stuff, and I was handling things fine. I'd call Steve to check in and let him know how things were going.<P>Now we're back in it together, and we're having sessions every other week or so.

Confused..........<P> I know what that is like too. I am 38 and have got guessed at 25 etc. Its a great feeling yes. In fact people cannot believe how old I am when I tell them. Its a compliment yes and a great one. Even better when I look better now then I did when I was 25. I'm sorry she won't go out with you. I go out with spouse now and then but its really hard for me. I feel like I am out with my brother. Want to hear something funny. We went out dancing last Sat night first time in I bet 3 years. Well anyways we slow danced and you know what I felt when we did this. I felt nothing for him. That kind of tells you where my feelings stand huh? He seemed so glad to be holding me like that. Said I was so fun to hold so firm etc. And all I wanted was the song to end so I could go sit back down. I know its not fair to spouse either. This is why I think he needs to find another. Get on with there life. Find someone that can have love feelings back for my spouse. Funny thing is anymore I just don't know where I belong in this world at all. I am having a bad morning and I have only been up for a half an hour. Seems going to be a bad day again. Keep in touch Confused.