No, you are careful, once bitten twice shy.<P>I am a bit cynical. As I read the posts, particularly your last one about all the gestures. I had a red flag go up. I think he is only telling you what he wants you to know. He sounds CHARMING, well aren't they all when they want to be. For all you know all the talk of counseling might be BS, made up to make you feel comfortable. And he told you he had an affair because of such and such, and only one. It seems a bit too pat to me. I told you I was cynical!!!<P>But some of these thoughts may have been going through your head, too. <P>We know from what we have read here, that a WS is very good at lying and justifying their actions, who's to say those little skills aren't carried to the future relationships?<P>Sorry I told it like I felt it, but I get the feeling that's what you want. And apologies to all WS's out there who may be offended by this, but this guy really does sound too good to be true.<P>

Nina-<BR>Yes, "Charming" is a good word to describe him. Unlike some people who had lots of conflict, etc., in their marriage, I had what APPEARED to be a perfect marriage until the day my ex walked out. So I'm well aware that people can hide their true selves behind an image of the "caring, committed spouse". If my husband could fool me after 13 years together, I'd be a fool to think this guy couldn't be fooling me after 6 weeks together!<P>But what's the alternative? Avoid the charming ones because they might be faking it? Only fall for guys who are selfish, uncaring boors? At least they aren't likely to be faking it, although they might be just as likely to cheat on me. Don't I deserve to be treated well? <BR>

Of course you do!!! Didn't mean to imply otherwise. But if you DO go into this relationship, you need to make sure your eyes are wide open...and sounds like they are. It is always a risk, isn't it? To be hurt again, or to find everlasting happiness. You have to decide which is more likely, but again with a clear head.<P>Take care!!!

Thanks, Nina. I appreciate both the support, and the "keeping my head on straight". Maybe it's because I don't trust my own instincts anymore that I feel like I need to rely on the judgement of others. I made a big deal out of introducing this guy to everyone in my family -- poor guy is probably overwhelmed! But I needed some outside opinions to feel like I wasn't just walking around with my head in the clouds. <P>I guess it's not just about trusting him. It's about trusting my own perceptions and instincts. That's much harder. <P>You take care, too --- especially during this difficult time in history.<BR>Annie

Annie:<P>I hope that the Boston area is treating you well (how frightening to be there during this week). I used to live out in Bolton on the 495 corridor, and we certainly miss the fall's out there. Of course, I go back for a conference every year in October, so I get my yearly dose.<P>Take good care of yourself!

animac,<P>IMO, the only way to regain trust in yourself and your instincts is to test them in safe situations. An exclusive, romantic relationship is not my idea of a safe situation. There are lots of other ways to shore up trust in yourself that do not involve dating. <P>Perhaps it is still too soon for you to be in an exclusive relationship. Do you have other male friends? Brothers?

K-thanks. My immediate friends and family are okay, but I know a lot of people that lost loved ones. What a small world it is. <P>Student- it's too soon after 3 years??? Actually, it isn't exclusive, although I'm not actively seeking out anything else. I've been out on several dates since I moved, but nothing that really interested me. I wouldn't turn down a date though. I don't see agreeing to be exclusive before 6 months, at a minimum. Maybe not even then. And I wouldn't consider marriage until 2 years, at least. I think that I can spend a lot of time working on myself, but learning how to trust again in a relationship is something I can only work on in a relationship. But certainly it makes sense to keep some distance and perspective. Thanks.<P>P.S. And yes, I have brothers, brothers-in-law, and I work with lots of guys (I'm an engineer). <P><p>[This message has been edited by Animac (edited September 14, 2001).]

Animac,<P>If this were your child or a younger sister in this situation, instead of yourself, how would you advise her?<P>I would also be concerned about the fact that he worked all the time and when he was home was arguing. "Working all the time," is often a coverup for affairs, as we all know, as is being short-tempered and irritable. <P>It seems to me that just saying he put too much weight on his wife's "poor treatment" of him is not really accepting any responsibility. Could this supposed mistreatment have been in response to the fact that he was never home and was a non-participatory father? One would have to wonder how he treated his wife. I would say again that it could be edifying to have a nice long chat with his ex-wife.

Nellie-You've summed it up pretty good. That's exactly the feeling I got and you've pretty much described how my life was to a tee!<P>I agree with the comment about being charming! I've always said my X was a total Prince Charming, everyone loves him (even some I wish wouldn't have).<P>I've been divorced for 7 months now and he left us almost 2 years ago. I'm not exactly just recently hurt by all this. But I don't think trust is that easy to reclaim even years later.<P>Regardless of my opinion about whether to ever date a cheater, I get the impression that this man is a fast mover. Like he's really pushing a stonger relationship. My question is what in the world is wrong with developing friendships first, before a big relationship? Why do people automatically want to jump into a "relationship" right away? Spells trouble to me. I think trust is easier to get back when you interact with someone as a friend first with no expectations. If there was going to be a "relationship", it would grow from that. Just seems healthier to me.<P>Also, I do believe people can change, absolutely. I myself cheated on my H before we were married (we dated 6 years and I basically had no self esteem and no Christian values back then). But I believe once there are vows and commitment before God, you don't break them, period. I didn't and even tho temptations were everywhere, never considered. I guess you can call me a changed person from who I was in my younger years altho I don't view that time as having had a commitment with/from him.<P>Animac, you should listen to your instincts because you have good ones. That doesn't mean to dump him, just maybe try to slow the pace a little and take a step back. Every man that comes along doens't have to be hot and heavy, and if you have reservations, don't let him push things too fast.<P>Hang in there.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Kathy

Animac,<P>I'm an engineer too. Hi fives!<P>I wouldn't put a time limit on your healing. Although, I do find it hard for anyone to say they are "healed" in less than a year or two. After that, it is anyone's guess.<P>It is good that you have a variety of relationships with men. Working, family, etc. <P>I'm with weirded out about having a solid friendship before the idea of something more is pursued. I'm wary of people who push the romance thing right off the bat. Yea, I'd make sure things were progressing at your own pace. See what he says about having a discussion with the ex. Personally, I'd have no problems letting a future beau talk to my ex or anyone who was around during that time--even though I was the one who cheated. Heck, I'd even encourage him to talk to the OM if he wanted to. I've got nothing to hide.