I'm curious if anyone thinks Plan B is optional. Plan B addresses marriages where affairs are involved, and I'm a bit of an oddball here. I believe my H is suffering from untreated clinical depression and post traumatic stress from Vietnam. He adamantly refuses to seek treatment for the PTSD and doesn't seem to acknowledge the depression at all. We share the same roof and eat meals together, but that's about it. Essential ingredients of a marriage are absent. I have grieved over the loss of this marriage. I tried Plan A. I sought marriage counselling. I separated from him for a month. He did attend counselling with me for four months after the separation, but his depression seems to be worsening. <P>Last year I found the website at drirene.com which describes verbal abuse. I could see how the descriptions applied to my H. It took several months for me graduate from "seeing" to "believing." I now recognize and know in my heart that my H is verbally and emotionally abusive. I don't know if detaching and withdrawal are necessarily the same thing, but I've been doing both since June. I found it necessary to protect myself from him emotionally. If I dare adventure beyond "safe" topics of conversation, it's like I'm feeding him material for his verbal shredding machine. We're in a financial crisis, in which he is a non-participant. The burden is on me. It's like Clinton's policy on gays in the military. I don't tell, and he doesn't ask. But if the nasty subject of finances comes up, I go through the shredding machine and I'm nothing but the bad guy who caused all this mess in the first place. <P>More recently, I've read Patricia Evans' books on verbal abuse. I have a better understanding of verbal and emotional abuse now, and less hope than ever that a fully functional marriage with this man is possible. H and I took a trip last month where things went badly, and despite my improved communication skills, I found him unreachable. That night I decided it was hopeless. Three weeks later, I still find myself wanting to skip Plan B and move directly to divorce. Reconciliation is not my desire. He's a passive controller, 54 years old, and IMHO unlikely to change. He's been on notice for three years that I find the status quo unacceptable. As my personal growth progresses, his depression and denial intensifies. <P>I'd like to hear from everyone. Are there reasons why I should attempt a Plan B? There is one thing I haven't tried yet. I haven't given him the choice of "get treatment for depression/PTSD or we're getting divorced." I though about doing that in June, but C warned me against issuing ultimatums unless I was willing to carry them out immediately. I was undecided at that point, but not anymore.

If your husband is having an affair, and you have completed a good Plan A, then Plan B would be the next option. Since Plan B involves ceasing all contact with the WS, but not necessarily going to divorce, there really are few reasons why you should skip it.<P>But only you can decide.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Unless his garden, which he dotes on daily, counts as an OW, he's not having an affair. Neither am I.

Lonesome Heart - posted - "get treatment for depression/PTSD or we're getting divorced." I agree an apparent ultimatum could cause problems, but I think he needs to know where you stand. Maybe it could be positioned so it appears less as an attack on him, more as something you need to do for you. BTW - what is husband's response to your concerns?<P> A period of separation could help clarify what both of you think is important. Treatment for you husband could make a world of difference.<BR> <BR> For what it's worth...

Do you love him? Do you remember loving him?<P>Hey, I'm a guy, so I look at it like this:<P>Deal with the verbal abuse. Focus on that. Don't try to diagnose him (PTSD, Depressed). The verbal abuse directly affects YOU.<P>My W is (has been?, was?) verbally (and sometimes physically) abusive. She also could be classified as PTSD, BUT the PTSD only affects me indirectly - and the abuse directly - so the abuse is the issue.<P>Have you read books by Aphrodite Matsakis?<BR>"Trust After Trauma: A Guide to Relationships for Survivors and Those Who Love Them", is one of her titles. She has at least one more re: PTSD. I bought them. I still have T after T, but W tore the other one into little pieces. They're worth checking into anyway. <P>I also have the book you mentioned by Patricia Evans. It's not the most hopeful book I've read on the subject - and is stuck in the assumption that all verbal abuse comes from men. <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0688175872/qid=999596057/sr=2-1/002-5367760-5739212" TARGET=_blank>Anger Free, by Doyle Gentry, Ph.D.</A> is pretty good - as is<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060932007/qid=999595932/sr=1-5/ref=br_lf_b/002-5367760-5739212" TARGET=_blank>Prisoners of Hate</A><P>I'm not the one in the middle of your situation (and often - such as this morning - feel like giving up on my W too), but I'm all for giving the maximum chance for change. Maybe a little more reading will help.<P>-AD<p>[This message has been edited by AbandonedDad (edited September 04, 2001).]

Hi lonesome, <BR>If you want it to work but are at the point of wanting to issue the ultimatum of "get help or get divorced" why not make it "I'm leaving until you get help". Because of abuse I went straight to plan B. My H moved back in with out me agreeing to it so now I am trying plan A (since i seem to have no other choice at the moment) with no sucess. Plan B doesnt always work, evaluate your own situation as to the chance there is of it suceeding and if you really want it to suceed. Somebody gave me the advise on how to decide if you were really to the point of divorce : when you no longer think I can do better than this but think i'd rather be alone than living like this. I want to know if I decide to leave that I gave it my very best, that I did all I could. If you feel you have done that and are ready to move on then I think plan B is optional.

Thank you for the responses everyone. FM, you asked about my H's response to my concerns. Our downward spiral began with financial problems. He stonewalls me, places the blame on me, and to this day we have not had a civilized discussion about money. He lives in a world of his own really, and I'm not included, except at dinnertime. We eat meals together. We used to be more connected. We have no intimacy in any sense of the word now. <P>Abdad, thanks for the book suggestions. wdid, I have reached the point of believing I'd rather be alone than live like this. I have considered the option of being the one to vacate the premises. I did it once before temporarily. This time, I feel a bit stronger, but he still has me paralyzed into silence. "Peace" in this household is maintained as long as I have no complaints, no requests, and no expectations of him. Attempts to "discuss" issues get really ugly. That's when the verbal abuse dragon comes out. I honestly don't know how to communicate or negotiate with him. I'm not sure that it's possible. He "solves" the problem with something outlandish, usually something threatening, and then he expects that to be the end of the discussion. Any additional words from my mouth, and I'm "hounding" him and all he wants is some peace. I do care for him, I care for his well being. I'd like very much for him to be capable of independence, and I worry that he'll end up under a bridge -- literally. <P>The ultimatum certainly needs to be rephrased. I'd prefer that HE be the one who leaves this time. Maybe I could just say "I want a place of my own." In truth, I'd be content to be the one who leaves, but H is so out of touch with basic things, that he might not pay the mortgage even if he had the money! We're in a bad enough spot already without the bank foreclosing on the house. <P>I think I need to write him a letter, one that may or may not get delivered. Maybe that will help me see my options more clearly?

Plan B always works. It just may work differently for some than for others. The key to Plan B is to protect the love you feel for your spouse for as long as possible and, if there is no reconciliation, to ease yourself out of love and into a comfortable state of just being YOU.<P>Regardless of the outcome, if you do Plan B properly, it works to help you become or remain a happy and secure individual, with or without your spouse.<P>Plan B is specifically targeted toward spouses having affairs, btw, as is Plan A.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>