Hey Stu,<P>Every saint has a past. Every sinner has a future. You know what? When I meet a woman I find interesting, I really don't care if she slept with an elephant. It just doesn't come to mind. And I really don't care to meet any of her exes. She is the one that has my attention.<P>Boy I sure wouldn't want her to talk to any of my exes either. I can just hear some of the endearing comments now. "Well, you know he has a very tiny ............ " And it would go down hill from there. Why even go there?<P>Once a cheat, always a cheat is more nonsense. After a while, having sex starts to resemble having sex. If you have slept with one, you've slept with them both. People mature, and they get over promiscuity. They learn from experience. It isn't a major problem for AARP members.<P>If a person can't accept you for what he sees in you today, you already know you have your hands on another loser anyway.<P>We don't really need a resume. What we need is time to become friends before we become lovers. It is a lot easier that way. And it is very, very hard to be friends after you've been lovers.<P>Prayers and stuff,<P>Bumper<BR>

"And it is very, very hard to be friends after you've been lovers."<P>boy, you got that right!<P>Thanks for the encouragement. <P>hey all,<BR>I'm having a rough week with my research. I was hoping to graduate Dec. 2002 (and it actually looked promising). Now I'm wondering if it will be something like 2003. As lots of you know, there are many things I am putting on hold until I graduate. Possible dating is just one of them. <P>It is fun to think about what I might do after I graduate. I do enjoy planning ahead. Plus, this has given me something to chew on while I ponder the state of my education. I'll be going back into my study-cave soon, so TTFN.

<B>So, you say you wouldn't date someone who handed you a resume with some facts and references. Ok, maybe you can explain to me why you'd believe what he had to say about his past.</B><P>I didn't say I'd totally believe it. I said that I would view it as his opinion of his past. As well, I have no valid reason NOT to believe him. I'm not going to go into the dating scene believe every son-of-a-b*tch is a stinkin liar! What kind of attitute is that? <P><B>Also explain to me when the appropriate time would be for him to lay it on you that he was married twice, and had cheated before, etc. After you had sex the first time, the 10 time, the zillionth time?</B><P>Unlike alot of people, I don't believe in having sex once, 10x or a zillion times until I KNOW the person. I wouldn't wait for him to "lay anything on me"....I would ask. That's part of getting to know someone. And I wouldn't have sex with anyone I didn't know....very, very, very well....I don't believe in casual sex as part of casual dating. <P><B> Or, tell me how many gawd-awful probings he'd have to suffer through to make sure you believed him. </B><P>I don't know what this means. I would tend to believe a person is telling me the truth until I have reason to believe otherwise. Like I said, I'm not going to get intimate with anyone until I've seen them in MANY, MANY different circumstances and situations. I'm going to want to KNOW their friends, family, etc. and not have to call them up via a resume to get the facts. I'm going to have formed an opinion about his trust-worthiness and truth-telling-ability after many, many times together in many, many situation, with many, many different people (i.e. friends, family). <P>A resume is fine in my opinion if all we're looking for is who is "safe" to have sex with. That's not what I'm looking for in dating someone. That's the problem with most relationships today...they don't really KNOW the other person all that well before they get intimate (i.e. have sex). <P>Again....just my opinion.<BR>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<P>PS. <B>Well, almost everyone here has suggested that my past IS me (even though I don't buy it). </B><P>Wasn't it you who said... <B>It is my belief that we create (or re-create) ourselves with every choice we make today. </B>??? <P>I'm confused.....<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bumperii:<BR><B>... What we need is time to become friends before we become lovers... <P>Bumper</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>and that truly is the <I><B>HEART</I></B> of the matter...<P>Friendship can survive without love. It doesn't work the other way around....<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

Student,<P>On to more interesting stuff than this dating crap... <P>Hydrofluoric acid is a pain, just for the reasons you mention. In graduate school, I was the first person in over 20 years to successfully synthesize a high-energy acyl phosphate compound (it had been reported in the 60's, and none of my collegues could get it to work). The intermediate that I prepared was formyl fluoride, and that compound is gaseous above -30C (I think). One of it's issues is that it was hydrolytically unstable, and the synthesis generated plenty of HF.<P>I kept it in a hood, but the glassware was only good for a couple reactions. As you're probably aware, HF is excellent for etching glass, as well as titanium. Ahhh, those were the days!! <P>One demo that you can do for students (only smart ones) is to hold out your hand (no cuts), and pour concentrated hydrochloric acid into it. It won't do anything. I tell you only to show the smart ones because if they try this with concentrated nitric or sulfuric acids, the result will not be pretty.<P>Oh well, that's enough fun with chemistry for today!!!

"Unlike alot of people, I don't believe in having sex once, 10x or a zillion times until I KNOW the person. I wouldn't wait for him to "lay anything on me"....I would ask. That's part of getting to know someone. And I wouldn't have sex with anyone I didn't know....very, very, very well....I don't believe in casual sex as part of casual dating."<P>I'm exactly the same way. You say you would "ask". So, what is the difference between me putting what most people would consider pertinent facts on a piece of paper and giving it to you?<P> I know you are a woman and so am I, but for the sake of this discussion, I'll make you the theoretical date man...So, how many dates would I have to spend with you before I could look forward to your "questions". How many weeks or months go by till you ask that one particular question that you don't like the answer to? Well, of course, I can't predict all of the questions you will ask, but I can certainly knock off the major ones--which is the purpose of the DR. I know for a fact that there are men who won't get serious about someone who has been divorced twice... and I'm one of them! If I am alot older than the guy (or younger) they need to know that too. If they have a problem with women who make more than them, then they get another opportunity to bail when they see I (will) have a PhD. And on it goes. <P>This is what I mean by the gawd-awful probings. You said yourself that you would get to know them very, very well. Then, I give you a tool to help you do just that, and you don't like it. Why? It's not like you wouldn't be scrutinizing my friends and my habits anyway. Why not just be up-front and lay it all out there at once and be done with it? Or done with a big chunk of it anyway.<P>Personally, I don't look forward to being probed and scrutinized. I know it is a fact of life and I know I do it as well. Maybe because there are just so many other things I'd rather do with my life than probe or be probed. In my daily life, I don't do it. I observe people. That's all I do. I rarely ask questions. People offer me what they want to offer me. I don't press for more. It is a waste of time. And it is not because I don't like the answer to questions, but because I usually know the answer already!! I've also learned that it doesn't much matter what people tell you. There are no guarantees, and there is no point in banking on anything one person says--certainly not when it comes to making major life decisions. <P>

K,<P>I'm afraid that even those smart ones would get hydrofluoric and hydrochloric acid mixed up.. I wouldn't want to be responsible for someone's hand falling off!<P>Ick, chemicals. Yes, I found out that HF etches glass. I use nalgene beakers. There are only one or two buildings on campus that will even allow HF in the bldg. Supposedly it will crystallize over time and can become very unstable (Almost like nitroglycerin), so it has to be placed in locations that are controlled or monitored so that it doesn't sit too long. Or, that is what they tell me. Just for anyone else out there reading this...sitting "too long" is something like numerous months in a jug on the shelf...not hours <P>When cleaning out one of the old labs prior to some construction, they found a jug of crystallized HF. They called the haz-mat team to come and remove it....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>When cleaning out one of the old labs prior to some construction, they found a jug of crystallized HF. They called the haz-mat team to come and remove it....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yeeehaaaaa!! I switched schools after 2 years into my Ph.D. program (my boss moved, and I went along). In cleaning out the lab, we found old bottles of various ethers---they can decompose into explosive peroxides with time. Handle with care... <P>One of the great things we found in this cleaning was a 1950's poster on the 101 great uses for radioactivity. You need to find a manhole cover on a snow-covered road??? No problem if it's got some uranium in it---just use your geiger counter. Lose your golf ball in the trees? Same principle. It's hard to believe that this wasn't a tongue-in-cheek poster, but it was for real. I think reproductions of this would sell very nicely on Ebay---maybe I should contact the DOE.<P> <P>

Mrs.O,<P>One thing I forgot...<BR>you asked about the "past is me" stuff.<P>Ok, from what I can tell, there are two theories at work here... One of them is that what I am today is the sum of all experiences from my past, therefore, my past is ME. The next logical conclusion, is that people assume that the future can also be surmised by bringing together whatever patterns they observe to exist and making tentative predictions about someone's future behavior...This is where the theory of "informed consent" comes along. Basically, what *I* am is more-or-less a bottle of stuff that needs to come with a warning label (MHDS--material handling data sheet for you chemists out there). Ok, so, I provide the DR--which is really a MHDS. It lists the basic facts.<P>the other theory...which is where I sit...is that there are many, many things in life that have happened to a person. These are just events. The meaning that people apply to events are NOT the events themselves. The meanings that people apply are a social or mental construct that helps people make sense of their life on a day-to-day basis--and change quite often. The choices they made then are whatever they thought was best at the time for whatever reason.<P>The past is like a closet of clothing. If you wear the same jeans you had in high school, then yes, your "past" is who you are today. However, if you haven't worn those jeans in 15 years, then no, that is not YOU today. Furthermore, how does wearing jeans 15 years ago form my clothing choices now? All I can really say is, yep, I used to wear jeans. I don't anymore. I like khaki's better....Big deal. Maybe the "jeans" analogy is too simple, but I don't think it is more complicated than that. Our past is a series of choices, that, as far as I'm concerned, is not anymore complicated than what I choose to wear.<P>So, when I said that we create or re-create ourselves everyday, it was based on this premise....we decide everyday what meaning we wish to apply to any given event in our life. It doesn't really matter. Others who observe the EVENTS of my past apply THEIR own meaning to it as well. The meaning they apply and I apply could be completely different. SO WHAT! Since that is what they will do anyway (regardless of what I say), then they are welcome to do so on their own time...not mine. I've already come to whatever conclusions I need to regarding my past, and learned what I need to, and so I'm not interested in hearing their opinion about my past...not really. Out of respect for them, I allow them the opportunity to investigate and give them the tools to do so in order for them to make their own choices. I just don't need to hear about it. <P>Everything I need to know about someone else can be observed by how the act today and in the future. The rest is a cr*p shoot anyway.

Hello TS,<P>I have been away from the boards, but by the sounds of this post, it sounds as if you have too. Welcome back. Very interesting idea. <P>Just for the sake of answering the question, I have a high need for conversation, so for me, I'd prefer to talk about things. I wouldn't feel right checking someone out, although actually the thought might not be a bad one.<P>I don't believe in the "once a cheater, always a cheater" thing at all. I've dated someone who cheated on someone else in the past, and not on me (as far as I know), and I dated someone who "supposedly" never cheated,...yet he cheated on me. So was I his "first"? That doesn't make me feel to good. My point is, even though they told me whether or not they did, it was kind of irrelevant because the past really didn't completely dictate how they would behave with me. Actually they behaved the opposite. I used to not understand at all where you were coming from but after going thru a rough year this year, I can understand what you mean about the casual sex relationship/casual sex issue. <P>Maybe a part of us is based on our past, what we've been thru, and whether or not we took time to use it as a learning experience(such as where we get our values and opinions from) , and a part of us is based on the present, (how we feel now about things simply from living thru those past experiences, and what drives our goals for the future). <P>Do you think men might not be as intimidated by this "resume" as women might be?? What about the differences in how we prefer to communicate, perhaps someone with a strong need for conversation, compared to someone without that need??<P>Dana<BR>

Dana,<P>I'm a BIG talker. Can't you tell? Look at the length of these posts LOL. My need for conversation is pretty big.<P>I don't know...I've about driven myself crazy trying to figure out a way to respect another person's need to know certain things about me (which is understandable), while simultaneously respecting my own need to forgive myself and let past mistakes go. <P>For 8 yrs I lived with a man who could not let my past mistakes go...ones that are soooo miniscule in comparison with infidelity. Things that happened 10 yrs or more before he met me that hurt noone. It almost destroyed me. I can't afford to go back to that. I can never be in a relationship with that sort of dynamic again--one in which I'm regularly questioned/grilled/interrogated/blamed/degraded for things I did in the past. Or, have things that I volunteer used against me at their convenience. I consider it a form of abuse--or it can way too easily become that. Using an abbreviated version of the DR very early would screen out those types of guys...the ones who like to get dirt on you for leverage. <P>So, the DR is my best solution. It has occurred to me that not everyone will ask detailed questions about my past. At some level, I suppose I agree with the "informed consent" thing...Given enough time, however, I doubt I would volunteer any history about my marriage--just like I don't make a point of telling people how I lost my virginity. Most people don't care.<P>However, if I cared about someone and they asked AND I wanted to continue the relationship...I would tell them to ask my friends/family and exes. Makes me feel like I'm in a POW camp with the bright light on me....Vat is your name?!! Vat is your age ?!! Vat is your marital history?!! Who have you slept vith?!! <P>Speaking of...So, are you dating someone new? You mentioned you had a rough year. Last time I came over, you were struggling with what to do about the guy who slept with his ex--the guy who cheated on you. I don't remember you talking about dating a guy who cheated on someone before. Is this recent?<P>I'm still stuck on graduating before I date again. Damn hormones. Driving me nuts!!

TS,<P>Hi, I posted an update you can find all the grueling details there. It's been a long year and I think school will be just what I need to get me back on track. <P>Now I'll face another dilemma you know about... going into a field where at this school, its mostly a MALE atmoshere! As I'm bordering male hating right now, and trying with all I have in me NOT to hit this stage, I wonder what going to school with a bunch of them will do to me?? Well, we'll soon find out, I'm either gonna get distracted, or hate them more.<P>I thought about the dating resume the other night when I talked with my exBF. I thought about how we talked about everything on your list, and little by little, over the year, little "truths" came out that were left out in the beginning. I guess I wonder, what would compell anyone to believe this hypothetical resume anyhow? Maybe I'm overly skeptic right now, but I could have some fun writing an imaginary resume for my ex H and even exBF. Let ME tell the real story of Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde!<P>Dana<BR>

[<P>I think I would want to know up front that the man likes some of the same sports that I do..... I have decided that I DO NOT want a man who lives and breaths baseball (ugh); other sports are okay. I want them to love snow skiing, and scuba diving or at least one one them. Is that shallow? I just dont want a couch-potato...so can we put an energy-level-meter on it?<P>NOT SHALLOW @ ALL. SOUNDS SMART TO ME!!!!<BR>ANNA<P>I would also want to know that they have graduated from the "READING OF THE HARLEY BOOKS" as a pre-requisite and understand communication.<P>Not bad.... <BR>Scuba[/B][/QUOTE]<P>

A dating resume!!!!<BR>First time I laughed all day....just the thought of a dating resume.....cute and thanks for making me laugh.<BR>ANNA

A dating resume. I like it. <P>I wouldn't trust it, of course, because just like on job resumes people would play up only their good points. I'm sure they would ignore the jobs/relationships they got fired from or walked out of without notice. <P>I would include a picture too, but then again, I would have it taken at glamour shots and really play it up.<P>

Hello TS. Long time no see!<P>Hmmm. I can see the benefits of having everything out in the open from the get go. But, I don't think the resume really works in concept.<P>From reading through these posts it seems to me that the purpose of the resume is to not have to be grilled or questioned to death by a man about your past. Personally, if you run up against a man like that, then YOU should walk. <P>Find someone that is like you. That knows how to put your past into perspective. <P>I agree that there are definitely people who can sweet talk their way through anything. It is up to us to be able to see through that kind of talk. I'm finally learning to not believe everything I hear. That's based on some recent past experiences.<P>Our past is our past. What we have learned from our past is what is important. It is who we are now that matters. It is what we value now that is what should be shared. It is what I will be trying to find out with the next person I meet. Not what happened in their past.<P>The reasons I like the resume, is that if someone will reject me based on my past, it would be good to know that up front. Because I wouldn't want someone like that. <P><BR>I want someone to judge me based on what I say and what my actions show about me now. I don't want to be judged on a resume or the opinions of the people of my past. In fact, I would be wary of anyone who actually wanted the resume and made the calls. What does it say about someone who needs other's opinions of me to evaluate me? I'm not sure anyone would really take the resume seriously. Do you? From your posts, I don't think you would ever ask for one or ever make a call. Would you want to date someone who would accept or want your dating resume? Maybe that is an effective way for you to weed out someone. The person who accepts the resume and makes the calls, is the person you don't want.<P>Interesting topic.

Hi TS,<P>Just got back into town, and I see that you are trying to revolutionize dating. Isn't Ti hard enough to work with? <P>Personally, I sort of like the idea. I think the success of it is the verbage that you use when giving it to someone. For instance, if you explained to them that you really didn't want to talk about it, but they were free to check the facts with the parties concerned and listed, it might ease the shock of receiving it. I presume that you would have OK'ed the fact that people may contact ex's about you? Or are they not really on the resume??<P>As we have talked about sooo many times, I don't think there is any reason to discuss your history, with anyone unless and until the relationship is much further along than "just dating", then as you know I am an advocate of "honesty". This resume may well solve many of the problems.<P>I will say that my W and I talked for endless hours about our views of child rearing, money, life, and many things. But I never asked her about past sexual activity and such. It wasn't important to me. A past marriage would have been, and your resume would have answered the mail. <P>However, I would have liked to inquire as to why the marriage dissolved. I presume that your exH would be willing to explain???<P>All in all, TS it isn't a bad idea. But, have you noticed that K and I sort of like the idea, but then we are nerds as well. <P>I am glad to hear that after school you are considering dating and such. Also glad to hear that you are only a year out to finish. Do that first and foremost.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

All in all I like it alot, but then I am male, so guess that does not count...BUT I want the cooperation of lots of conversation re your past, cause I DO believe we are our history, and I would want to know your feelings/thoughts in the past...compared to who you present as now....to predict who you will be in the future. Also I agree with K, trust is important, and sharing vulnerable intimate details of our past is one of the main ways we build trust. A side deal is assessing your honesty, if your ruminations about past change from time to time, or are internally conflicting I want to know that. There is inherently no reason to trust a stranger (you), nor is their any reason to just blindly trust (else we wouldn't need MB board), in fact just the opposite. The main purpose of the DR for me, would be to weed out the obvious misfits......which brings me to my next point...<P>You are describing a dating service essentially, can I be your agent...maybe we can franchise the thing...in any event if you want maximum efficiency, you need to run this DR past 100's of men..... which means you need help...I'll do it for $5o a head..ok?<P>stu...Given enough time, however, I doubt I would volunteer any history about my marriage--just like I don't make a point of telling people how I lost my virginity. Most people don't care.<P>snl...I bet their are people on this very board who care...not me of course , so will you post the details here, or on a new thread?<P>

TS,<P>just to put your mind at ease, I used the concept with my current date.<P>The first time we were alone together, I told her my darkest secrets such that she could decide whether or not she wanted to continue right away. Since we live far apart, i gave her a reference to call or write, a woman that works for me, and my date was free to ask her any questions she wanted. the woman that worked for me and i had some very open discussions, and she had issues from her past, that we discussed regularly.<P>so basically i endorse the concept in verbal form, but i also encourage the open and honesty from historical mistakes. Hey, everyone makes them, some of us are just more adventurous than others, right TS??<P>take care. . .<BR>keep studying though, there is a hell of a recession out there and no guarantees you will get a job when you graduate.<P>WIFTTy<BR>

Gee, <B>TS</B>, haven't seen you in a while... of course, I haven't been here much lately. You've started an interesting topic... as usual. <P>My issue with the dating resume is in the issuance of it... I'd keep it to <I>available upon request</I>. I mean yes, you're a virgo, so am I... we like things organized and orderly... so it makes sense. But, what if your new guy doesn't give a toss about all this? Suppose he doesn't? Then you give him one of these and choke your *way* down his throat. He may not like *it* but like *you* plenty. So, as I stated... let them know it's available... just don't present unless requested.<P>Oh and when you said <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I've about driven myself crazy trying to figure out a way to respect another person's need to know certain things about me (which is understandable), while simultaneously respecting my own need to forgive myself and let past mistakes go. <P>For 8 yrs I lived with a man who could not let my past mistakes go...ones that are soooo miniscule in comparison with infidelity. Things that happened 10 yrs or more before he met me that hurt noone. It almost destroyed me. I can't afford to go back to that. I can never be in a relationship with that sort of dynamic again--one in which I'm regularly questioned/grilled/interrogated/blamed/degraded for things I did in the past. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>This is my life. Only now, I'm going through the rejection and disintegration of the relationship. C'est la vie.<P>So, keep thinking, I like the idea... but remember it's YOUR idea and my not be received well by anyone else. It's the classic phrase, "What you say/do may be right, it's the way you say/present it... that makes all the difference." I don't know... just some late night thoughts I guess...<P>Cheers!<BR>Nicole<BR><P>------------------<BR><I>"You will deceive yourself into believing that if people, circumstances, and events had been different, your pain would not exist...Your pain is the concrete way in which you participate in the pain of humanity."</I> <BR>~ Henri Nouwen ~