How many people here or their spouses REALLY thought <BR>about "till death do us part" before you got married?<P>I mean..did you really sit down and think about what that<BR>means? To spend the "REST" of your lives with one person..<P>I can honestly say...No, I didn't..If I had..it would <BR>have scared the bejeebee's outta me..I didn't think about<BR>things like..is this the person I want to be there for me<BR>when my parents die? Is this the person I want to be there<BR>for me if I am really sick and facing death?? Is this the<BR>person I want to be there to clean up after when they<BR>are old and can't control their bladder..Will I be able<BR>to talk to this person once the kids are grown..will we<BR>have any common interests? <P>They are things I'll ask myself if I ever get to that<BR>point in a relationship again...

yes i did ask myself those questions and the fact of the matter is, i still want it to be the man i married... even after all this...

I thought about all of those things very deeply. If I had not, I would not have been able to get married.<P>In fact, the reason I got married was to have my wife ( at that time, my girlfrend) by my side, and have me be by hers, for the rest of of our lives through good, bad, terrible, great and everything in between.<P>I guess that SHE did not think it through enough, because she is divorcing me.<P>vb_guy.

Yes I did. We had a party for my parents 70th anniversary this past MAy. They met at 13 and married at 18. I grew up believing in til death do us part. They dont have a perfect marriage but there problems seem small. I was the thirteenth child they raised. So I was also brought up beleiving in being loved and taken care of, not mistreated.

That is so sad that you mentioned that. I can still remember the day I was standing there in the justice of the peace's office. I was only 19 and I had already quit my job in Galveston and moved to Dallas. I had too much pride to go back home and tell my mom, she was right, and I was wrong. I briefly thought about those things, but he was very self-centered. I am definately a giver and I gave way too much and sacrificed over and over again until I resented him - I guess that was my fault for not standing up for myself - don't know, but many lessons were learned through 16 years of marriage. If there is ever the opportunity for a next time, I will ask this question, "What did you learn from your marriage and did you learn from the experience?" "Have you changed your attitude about these experiences?" "What have you changed within yourself that your ex said you did?" I will be very forward, bold and honest if ever given that opportunity again. Communication is the #1 key in everything, business, day to day lives, marriage, etc...... We have to all learn to talk and not let things build up.

Yes. My father's parents were together until they were separated in a nursing home when she needed more advanced care at the age of 85. He could not live without her and died within 6 months of her death.<P>I believed in marriage (still do). I searched and read as many discussions and interpretations of the Bible and God's meaning before I could accept the idea of divorce. My H left me, committed adultry and filed. Even though I am divorced I still do not believe in the concept and feel it should not be so easy for one to get it pushed through; especially when the second party is against it.

You know what, ThornedRose, I did think about this as much as a young person can. I wasn't a baby when I married--I was 27yo or so--yet as a person in my 20's I had no idea what REAL love and commitment and "till death do us part" meant. I thought it meant playing house, having kids, dad worked and mom stayed home, and the hollywood ending of "happily ever after." I had not idea of looking at it from a mature point of view.<P>Now, I've been through all this. I feel like my castle in the sky is gone and I'm just another person...no one special, ya know? But I can also say that looking at it as a 40yo, I still mean "till death do us part." I don't know if we can work it out. I don't know if he will have the patience and courage to keep working on himself and not ignoring the problem, and I don't know if I will ever really consider myself worthy of being truly loved--like I deserve it. Whether or not we stay married, I will not look for another partner in life. It's him or no one. <P><BR>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

CJ,<P>I understand what you mean...about as much as you could <BR>understand...<P>My problem...I guess, was I didn't think about those things..I had no concept to even ask myself those things..<BR>I look back on my wedding day..and to what was going through my mind..and I hurt..I stood there before I walked down the aisle and asked my best friend.."what the hell am I doing?"<BR>I told her I should go get in the car and leave..run..<BR>and not look back..told her I thought I was about to make the biggest mistake of my life..she told me it was just<BR>"wedding day jitters" and that they were "normal" thoughts..<BR>it was just fear..but I know it was more than that..and I should have followed my gut instinct and ran..but I didn't trust my gut..every thing I ever thought was right in my life..was wrong..I never trusted my gut instincts..learned that as a child..but looking back over the years..(many years) had I follwed my gut instinct in so many situations..things would have been different..but I always second guessed myself..and what I felt..deep down..even when it came to the abuse..I wanted to tell..I wanted someone to know..but I didn't tell..because I wanted to make everyone else happy...my daughter walked in that day..and I looked at her..and she was sooo happy...and I looked at everyone else..and looked at how much everyone had put into getting all this together in a short amount of time..(I kept trying to change the date to further away) he wanted to get married right away...I wanted to wait..and everyone kept saying..it's the only way for the relationship to go..if you don't get married you may as well end the relationship..<BR>and it's not that I wanted to totally end the relationship..<BR>I just didn't want to get married..and it seemed that everytime I tried to talk about how I felt..he would get mad..and make comments about how I am being selfish and that I should look at how my daughter loves him..and how much he loves her..and no thought to HOW I felt..so I did what I have always done..and ignored what I felt inside..I even had some friends tell me that I shouldn't marry him...but they were men..and even though they were friends..they were men..<BR>and that made stbx mad..he would say "the reason they say you shouldn't marry me is because they want you, if they didn't want you so badly they wouldn't care who you married"<BR>it's like..I don't know..whats the word I'm trying to think of..he doesn't think that men can like me for me..as a person..without it being about sex..like I am not a likable person and the only reason these men were my friends was so they could have sex w/ me..and the sad thing is..when we were in court recently..for our temporary custody hearing..<BR>it was brought up that I'd had a male friend and his three kids come to visit a few months back..they all slept in my living room..(I've known this man 18 years..and we've never had a sexual relationship) and they kept asking if I slept w/ this man when he was here..I said..No..they (his lawyer and the general master) were like..so your saying that you had a man stay at your house for a weekend and you didn't have sex with him..and you expect us to believe that?? I was totally offended by that..like WHAT men can't like me for ME??? they can't enjoy spending time with me as a person..and just enjoy my company and it NOT be about sex??? I was hurt..is that all they see me as good for?? That just totally blew my mind..and I've had a hard time dealing with that..because it makes me question all men..and if they all feel that way..if so..I'd rather stay single..and not have any men friends..but then I know (from men friends that I do have and from men on this board) ..that NOT all men are like that..but the few that do..can really do some damage to someones self image as a person..and then I sit and wonder..why would I want to even stay married to someone who thinks that all men want to have sex w/ me..and that that is all I am good for?? I want something more from a relationship..something with some substance..something that will last that life time..till death do us part..someone that when they'd die I'd miss them so much that I'd wouldn't want to go on living w/ out them...a bestfriend..someone I can share my deepest fears with and my hopes and dreams..<BR>and who will help me attain those things..and will be there for me during the good and the bad..and not just so they can have sex..you can rest assured..If God see's to bringing someone into my life..I'll ask myself these questions..<BR>and I'll pray a long time about it..

TR,<P>I certainly thought about it - and it was plain enough that I would be the dead one - since I'm much older than my W. She says she can't deal with that - want's someone she can "grow old together" with. I suppose she was too young to know what it meant - but I meant it for sure. I may, after all, not be me who gets sick and disabled.<P>Sometimes, though, when I think about the fact that she loves another more than me.... I think I deserve better than that - better than to be a penalty for foolishness to my wife. I'd like to be valued as a husband, not simply endured. I never imagined that. I imagined a lot of different troubles that we might experience, but not that my W would be hostile to me and would betray me. That was a complete surprise. I never thought that the biblical command to "turn the other cheek", would have to be used in marriage.<P>-AD

Boy, TR!<P>Take a breath! <P>You write in big, long-winded sentences like the Apostle Paul. Haha. I think he wrote one whole chapter that was one sentence. <P>BOY OH BOY!!! Do I ever understand what you are saying. I have to honestly say that I am sort of speechless, because it just knocks the wind out of me. Seriously, I don't know what to say.<P>If you ever want to write to me, my personal email is cindy_cj_wolfe@hotmail.com. I have a funny feeling that we have a lot in common. If you and I and Nyneve got together we could probably qualify as the Three Stooges or the Three Musketeers or something, huh?<P>Well, let me just say this one simple statement. You are loveable, just for you. You are not just a sex object (especially not to me--haha). You are a valuable, precious, interesting, growing human being who has added so much here on the forum that there isn't a word for it. What's a word that means just so very, extremely valuable? I can't speak for everyone, but I know I have learned a LOT from you, just because you are honest and open enough to share yourself with us--flaws and all--and it has meant so much to both me and my H. <P>So...you are right. You are valuable and interesting and cool just because you're breathing. <P>CJ <BR><P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Absolutely I thought about "till death do you part," and there was not a doubt in my mind that I wanted to be married to my H, the man I loved, for the rest of my life. Now, two and a half years after he left, my feelings have not changed at all.

I thought about all those words when I got married and I thought it was going to be "till death do us part" and I'm still thinking about that even after the separation. I never thought my marriage would come to this, but it did and it was because we both brought it to this. <P>I'm thinking positive every day that my H comes back and our marriage will work. I still love him and care about him, how could I not.

I want "til death do us part" so bad I dont know what to do. Reading the replies in this post makes me cry. I didnt have any wedding day gitters. Even thou my wedding was a huge disaster. I always joked that we got all out problems out of the way on our wedding day. That no day could ever go that wrong again. I was still living in happy ever after land 7 months ago. We had been together almost 8 yrs by then. I feel like I have no choice but to leave my marriage, but it is so hard to beleive my prince charming turned into the frog (isn't it suppose to be the other way around?) and that my fairy tale is coming to an end. For all of those who still have a chance I wish you the best and hope you can make it "til death do us part".

I would not have married my ex if I didn't plan on spending a lifetime with her.

Yes, I thought about it a lot<BR>And I have thought a lot about how it means almost nothing to so many counselors.<BR>I am here because it meant something to Harley--and he had the guts to say to many other practitioners (and himself) that not much was being accomplished by the counseling. <BR>He set out to find another way and I am so glad he did.<BR>We are still going to a counselor together, but he has no plans or advice. He literally says (regarding our progress), keep doing what you are doing (generally through some watered down MB principles).<BR>It makes me furious. Imagine what it would be like if I could find a MB practitioner who the W would see.<BR>But, I knew long ago (29) years that I would remain committed to the one I had chosen<BR>R

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FaithfulWife:<BR>[B]Boy, TR!<P>Take a breath! <P>You write in big, long-winded sentences like the Apostle Paul. Haha. I think he wrote one whole chapter that was one sentence. --LOL...I'll take THAT as a compliment..I like the apostle Paul..have learned a great deal from his writings in the Gospel..even through the "thorn" in his side..LOL<P>BOY OH BOY!!! Do I ever understand what you are saying. I have to honestly say that I am sort of speechless, because it just knocks the wind out of me. Seriously, I don't know what to say. --it's okay...I don't expect anyone to know what to say..I was speachless when they were saying these things..<P>If you ever want to write to me, my personal email is cindy_cj_wolfe@hotmail.com. I have a funny feeling that we have a lot in common. If you and I and Nyneve got together we could probably qualify as the Three Stooges or the Three Musketeers or something, huh? -- maybe three of the five wise virgins..LOL...who filled our lamps with oil..<P>Well, let me just say this one simple statement. You are loveable, just for you. You are not just a sex object (especially not to me--haha). You are a valuable, precious, interesting, growing human being who has added so much here on the forum that there isn't a word for it. What's a word that means just so very, extremely valuable? I can't speak for everyone, but I know I have learned a LOT from you, just because you are honest and open enough to share yourself with us--flaws and all--and it has meant so much to both me and my H. -- thank you..I'm glad that I have been of help in even a small way...<P>So...you are right. You are valuable and interesting and cool just because you're breathing. -- And so are YOU!!!!<BR>And God loves us both for who we are..not who we will become..but who we are right now..just like we are..<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by roger:<P>It makes me furious. Imagine what it would be like if I could find a MB practitioner who the W would see.<BR>But, I knew long ago (29) years that I would remain committed to the one I had chosen<BR>R[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It would be wonderful..and you would be very blest..<BR>have you gone to a local church to seek counseling?<BR>maybe they have a pastor who thinks this way...<P>

I was there at the church because he was THE ONE. I took those vows very seriously, and I thought he did too, because it was in his church...now it is all unravelling, and he is the one who thinks that's okay.<P>His sister divorced after being married in the catholic church too, but remarried anglican...so I suppose she thinks it's okay and so does he....but she didn't have kids. I think it stinks that these days people can be so selfish that they can get a divorce without working on the vows they originally made. Gosh, it meant something to me...why not him, too???