<A HREF="http://www.pastors.com/MT/20/?id=20&artid=707&expand=1" TARGET=_blank>http://www.pastors.com/MT/20/?id=20&artid=707&expand=1</A>

Yes, I see!! I bookmarked it and will study it soon... it's too big (emotionally) to skim through, wouldn't you agree?<P>Thank you, and I will be in touch as I go through this process...<P>Hugs, Sheryl<p>[This message has been edited by Nyneve (edited September 06, 2001).]

Yes, I agree..and it expresses what "we" are actually going through quite well...tired of wearing the "face" to please everyone else..and just wanting to be "real" and accepted<BR>as we are...flaws and all..

Okay girls, I see a flaw or two...<P>Nyneve, you worry too much and you are everyone's mother, but you forget to take care of yourself. OTOH, you care for everyone, no matter what kind of orphan they are! You love almost everyone!<P>ThornedRose, you made some mistakes in your past--some bigger than others. You took a lot of the blame yourself and then realized it wasn't all you. OTOH, you have been open and caring and available as you struggle through this, and you know what? I bet you didn't know this, but you have helped a lot of WSs out there in MB cyber-land!! Heck, you've even helped a couple of us BSs to understand what you WSs go through! <P>Then there's me. Get a cot, because we could be here a while. No...there's not enough room to list my faults, but let's just say that I have cycles of sadness, I don't trust hardly ANYONE at this point, and I hold myself responsible for everyone else. OKAY? Does that about cover it? OTOH, I am silly and funny and playful, I am very empathetic, and I care a lot about the people here.<P>Girls, all three of us need to learn a hard, almost impossible lesson. If I show people who I really am, they will not only still like me, they will love me. I can not speak for everyone here, but I do know you two a bit, and I do know that I love the women that you are--pimples, wrinkles, grey hairs and all. You are both so very, very valuable. Now, if we could only believe that within ourselves, hey?<P><BR>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

CJ and TR,<P>Love to you both...<P>You know, we compliment each other, as CJ has pointed out, but we do all share something... we CARE and want to LEARN about ourselves... <P>I like us. Honest to God, even me! <P>Hugs, Sheryl

Good morning, Sparkly. How are you?<P>I like us too. I just had to tell you that you made me laugh, and I am feeling crummy today/tonight. Honest to God, Sheryl, even you (heehee)!<P><BR>Is there a hug icon, because there should be. Oh well, I guess chocolate will have to do.<P>CJ<P><P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Whoa...<P>The article describes my WS XW to an almost absolute T. Everything from the molestation (mentioned only once when we were getting DIVORCED and later denied) to faking it to, well pretty much everything.<P>What a horrible self-imposed prison. My XW is still faking it. Hopefully she can break out of her prison someday. I'd like to give her a copy of this article but I figure it will be taken all wrong coming from me. I've bookmarked the page, I'll have to see.<P>And the absolute worst part is I didn't know about it. How can you help someone if they hide all of it?<P>Kevin<P>

Wow. Thanks for sharing that website .... that's me all over the place.<P>

Just, Hi Maya Hope all is well!! <P>Hi Kevin, <P>Re:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by father of 1, husband of 0:<BR><B>Whoa...<P>The article describes my WS XW to an almost absolute T. Everything from the molestation (mentioned only once when we were getting DIVORCED and later denied) to faking it to, well pretty much everything.<P>What a horrible self-imposed prison. My XW is still faking it. Hopefully she can break out of her prison someday. I'd like to give her a copy of this article but I figure it will be taken all wrong coming from me. I've bookmarked the page, I'll have to see.<P>And the absolute worst part is I didn't know about it. How can you help someone if they hide all of it?<P>Kevin<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It is wonderful that you still care about your ex-W's emotional and mental wellbeing, and that you see something that you can grab onto to help her.<P>I'm sorry, I don't know your whole story...I assume you are still talking together? Perhaps you can talk about us, as in the ladies here who have been through this junk, and let her know that she is welcome to join us?<P>If she doesn't hit her own "rock bottom" though... chances are she won't be ready to hear anything. If you want to be there for her, just watch from a distance, and be there when she hits the bottom. She'll need a friend.<P>Best wishes.

I work in a church office and I'm far from perfect. But this article was so wonderful.<P>I am often in the company of people who act like they don't have any problems in their lives, have never had any problems in their lives, and that the idea of problems is nonsense. But, I know that underneath there are bound to be latent issues they're in denial about. I know because I've been there.<P>There is nothing as comforting as knowing you are not alone.<P>But I digress. I sent this link to everyone in the office today. My friend David, who is by profession, a minister but who is on administrative leave until his legal status is resolved (non-violent crime pertaining to property) read the article today and thanked me for it. [David has a hearing Tuesday and could learn then if he will be sent to jail for his actions. He and his family could use all the prayers out there.]<P>Thorned Rose, thank you for posting it. You have helped a man you've never met at a time when he needs it.

CJ, <P>You said something that really hit me..(lol..yes I have many GRAY HAIRS, and more and more each day) but no, that wasn't<BR>it...<P>You said you don't trust ANYONE...so lets go with this..<BR>There is something that I want to share with you from one the workbooks--it's kinda long..(but then..as you said in another post..I am long winded..lol) but I will also give you some questions to ask yourself..at the end of this --<P>"I Couldn't Trust Anyone"<P>Jeanie said "Growing up, I knew I couldn't trust anyone. My mother was off doing her own thing, and who knows where my<BR>father was? I could trust my stepdads, uncles, and bothers for one thing -- they were going to take what they wanted. The only good thing was that I knew one day I would grow up. What I didn't know, though was that for close relationships<BR>I would pick every lousy person that was out there. No one was there for me growing up and no was there for me afterwards. I've married three times. They were all bums. One even molested my daughter. I really wanted my life to be different, to be better. I don't even worry anymore about whether or not I can trust them; I know I can't trust even my own head, so I just don't get involved."<P><BR>1. List the people who violated Jeanie's trust..<P>(I'll help you out here..Jeanie, mother, stepdads, bothers, <BR>uncles, and three husbands) Notice that Jeanie couldn't trust herself..she couldn't trust herself to recognize a person who would NOT abuse her--her ability to make wise decisions had been damaged..and needed to learn how to trust herself) <P>2. What to you makes a person trustworthy?<P>3. Do you trust to much, to little, or not at all?<P><BR>But your comment about not trusting made me think of that..<BR>and I wondered...do you trust even yourself??

Nyv, and Faithful -- I love you too, and think you are both wonderful women who have grown alot through all your hurts and pains..and have helped ME alot as well as many others <BR>here on the board..thank you <P>Cinderella, <P>Doesn't that just hurt you inside? When ppl act as if they<BR>don't have any troubles in their lives? I guess to me, it's<BR>like denying God..when we deny our hurts (that HE gives us so that we can grown in Him) we deny him the ability to work in our lives..by sharing them..and yes, it is VERY comforting to know that others are going through hurts and pains and that we aren't alone..<P>I am glad that this post was able to help your friend..and am thankful my friend sent it to me..so that I could share it..makes me see even more how WONDERFUL God is..and how much He cares..the circle of events..My friend was led to the website..and because of things we have shared..he sent it to me..and because of things that have been shared here, I posted it here, and God used all of these circumstances to get the message to one person who needed it..someone whom <BR>myself nor my friend would have not had anyway of knowing needed to hear that message..ONLY GOD KNEW!!! <BR>And I'll keep your friend in my prayers..<P>Kevin,<P>I am sorry about your wife..I know many people who have been abused do not like to admit it, they deny it over and over (my sister is one of those people), I never denied that it happened..just denied the extent of the damage it caused..<BR>A friend of mine sent me a book.."The Wounded Heart" which is WONDERFUL!!! it is mostly towards sexual abuse, but I personally feel that it can help ANYONE who has been abused..or betrayed in anyway..and if you'd like to help<BR>her, you could get the book, (get two copies, and no, I don't get a commission on the book) but, you could also read it..and give her a copy..she may not read it right away..<BR>I didn't..I didn't think that I "needed" it..I felt that since I had admitted I was abused..and I had told others it had happened..that was enough...I was healed..but..that was sooo far from the truth..it took me three to four months to actually read the entire book..it hurt to much to read..<BR>but, I read it..and read it again..and will read it again..<BR>because there is just to much to grasp..at one reading..<BR>and it is very difficult to face those hurts and pains..and to come to the realization that the one person who you loved <BR>so much (your parent) is a criminal..and that they are the ones to carry the responsiblity..of the crime..not the victim..<P>But abuse brings many feelings of shame, guilt, anger, fear, grief, loss, terror, confusion, ambivilance, helplessness, rage, numb, sorrow..self-blame, self condemnation, self-loathing--<BR>they tell themselves it wasn't THAT bad..others have had it worse..but just one incident..can cause all these internal<BR>struggles that damage your soul..and until they are faced<BR>and worked through, and identified as such..the healing can't begin..and sadly..most people can't put a word to what they are actually feeling inside..they don't understand the definition of the words they feel..and until they learn those words and WHAT they mean..they can't heal..because they lack that understanding..it sounds as if your ex, is being led to deal with these internal struggles but is afraid to do so..because she has to admit that whoever hurt her (problably someone she loved and trusted very much) was capable of such a thing..and she will have to admit that she blames herself for the abuse, even though it wasn't her fault..she problably feels "SHE" did something to make them do that to her..maybe it was my fault..maybe I dressed all wrong, maybe I led them on, maybe my wanting to be comforted was what made them want them to have sex with me<BR>so it's wrong to want to be loved..or comforted..or held..<BR>so I'll just not want any of those things ever..and we learn to NOT want anything from anyone..so we build walls to protect ourselves from love..the one thing we need the most..<P>And sadly for you..she can't have a healthy relationship with ANYONE until she faces these things..it's very difficult to work on a marriage and learn how to trust someone who we see has abused that trust..(even if by lack of their own understanding of the depths of the hurt and internal pains that we have inside) <P>I don't know what happened in your relationship to get where it is..but the one thing that you can do for her, is learn to be her friend..and not expect anything else..I know for myself..had my stbx just been there as my friend..and not tried to continually push wanting sex..and tried to understand the depths of the hurt I felt inside..and allowed me a safe person to share those hurts with..and not continually thrown my past in my face..things could have been different..but because of his own past hurts..he didn't trust me enough to share his pain with me..he is of the beleif that your past has no bearing on who you are today..<BR>it's something that happened..and you just forget it..but unless you learn from that past..you are going to make the same mistakes..in your future relationships..I'll keep you<BR>and your ex in my prayers that you will be able to help<BR>her even if in just learning to be her friend and someone <BR>she can learn she can talk with about everything..<P>