Guys,<BR>I just read the "Stop your Divorce" book. Seemed to be a pretty good set of guidelines. I have pretty much decided to follow them. My wife is unwilling to help me in anyway at all. I am getting counseling on a weekly basis and the counselor wanted her to talk with him so that he could help me. She wont. I think that I am going to be okay either way. I havent given up, but frankly, my wife is stuck in the mode that I cant change and I understand. I have been feeling well and doing well. She is also upset that I have so much free time while she has the kids. Well, too bad. I have bent over backwards to help her and I will continue to be there for my children. As I get the help with the counseling, I am now realizing that there was so MUCH more going on in our marriage other than our drinking. She is very headstrong and set on her ways. That is, if it dont go her way, then it is the highway. She has no desire to change, no desire to help me in any form or fashion, and frankly, that tells me that no matter what I do she aint going to work on the marriage. I will just be nice, act like it doesnt bother me (it really doesnt), and move on with my life. If it works out, it works out. If it doesnt, it wont be because I didnt try. It will be because she didnt. I feel really good about trying to change things about myself. Am I perfect, no. Have I made some mistakes, yes. But I am doing well. I even offered to go into an agreement with her that would give her more than she gets now should I drink even just once. That is, the house, the money, etc. I even told her that I would set aside 2k prior to us trying this legal agreement so she would have cash available. Even said, I would leave for just one slip up. She said no. So, suffice it to say, I will just keep on my journey, plan A, no calls, and perhaps consider dating next year. Life is short, and I just cant sit by and wait for her. I might be different if she was getting herself some help, but she isnt. Eventually that will come back to hurt her. That hurts me, but what can I do. Any thoughts on this plan? Has anyone tried the Homer McDonald plan?

Wow, RobC, you are being so strong!!!<P>Well, I haven't read the book, but I was intrigued by the blurb, which said there were four things to say to your spouse which would bring them back to the marriage. WHAT ARE THEY???? We'd all like to know!!!<P>BTW I asked Katie Carlsson about this and she didn't know....I hope you do!!!

RobC, it sounds like your wife is in great need of the Al-Anon program. Without Al-Anon I would never have realized that I needed to change (and that's with our without my drinker in my life). Can you gently encourage her that way? After all, whether she is married to you or not her children's father will always be an alcoholic (hopefully always recovering!)<P>A lot of the things you've described about your wife sound like me (head strong, resentful, etc).<P>RobC, how many years did you drink? Please don't expect her to instantly get better or begin to love you when it took X # of years for her to fall out of love with you. Was her falling out of love with you the rock bottom that got you help? Unlike an affair which blossoms and surprises the BS fairly suddenly, alcoholism is usually a slowly progressing disease that has left behind years worth of resentments and troubles for the spouse.

Nina, thanks for the reply. I must tell you the book made sense to me. I mean, the worse case scenario is that I am a better person. I now realize that I dont NEED anyone to be happy. Sure, it is my PREFERENCE to love and have romance, but honestly, I will be okay either way. That is part of the whole "Stop Your Divorce" process. You eliminate the negative feelings of your spouse by AGREEING with everything they have said. I just tried it and it worked. My wife was unwilling at all to help with my counseling. I emailed back and told her that I understand. I was a miserable husband and father and our life stunk. I further stated that I understand why she felt she couldnt help and that it didnt matter to me one way or the other. I was just trying to move on in life and I didnt want to make the same mistakes in my next relationship. I didnt want to go through another divorce. The process is to not feed her negative emotions and feelings towards me. That is by agreeing with her, I eliminate the conflict and give it no power. I am also showing her that she may lose ME. I feel so alive. It is really helping. Her respose was "I can help. The whole email went from negative to positive and working together. The whole point is that most people in relationships dont leave strong, independent individuals. That is why she married me. I am showing her that no matter what I can live without her. I dont need HER to be happy, and the truth is, I dont. I wont contact her, but if I do, it will be happy, upbeat and too the point. I feel great today. It is working.

Married2,<BR>It was over many years. I wont get into alcoholic/not alcoholic issue. My doctor felt i was manic-depressive and that coupled with my past childhood molestation, led to my consumption and alcohol abuse. She too is an abuser of alcohol. We both were. She doesnt feel she is and she still drinks. Most dont know that. Just like the night 5 months ago she asked me to take her out to shoot pool and drink. If drinking in your marriage is a problem for BOTH of you, that is something you dont do. Or when your husband askes you to not bring the booze home so he can start to work on getting help and you bring home a twelve pack and conmence to getting your husband drunk, there is something wrong. The fact is I didnt WANT to take her out drinking, but she begged me and I did, she got plastered and started acting like the old woman I knew. I hated myself for giving in. I am moving on, and whether or not she believes me or wants to get back together, I will be alright. I do understand her position. What I dont understand is why she wont get herself some help - its because she DOESNT believe she needs it! That is the fact of the matter. EVen when others tell her she NEEDS to.

Well I am glad for you...you must be further on than me...<P>I caught myself being happy yesterday for the first time since our split, and I found it scary.<P>It is so important not to seem needy of the WS, I know. And it does give more of the power back to you. <P>But you didn't seem to answer my q, or maybe it's just late for me here...1.07am. What are the four statements???<P>Jacky

Jacky,<BR>I dont have it with me, but they were basically<P>(1)I really wanted the marriage to work.<BR>(2)I understand now that it wont work.<BR>(3)I will be okay either way.<P>I forgot the rest. I will be online later tonight and I will post some of the information for you. Sorry I didnt answer it. It basically is the issue of not feeding the negative FEEELINGS of your spouse. If you dont feed them, they lose there power. Remember, these negative feelings are the very things that keep them from moving towards you. You MUST show strength, be nice and happy (even if you are so down). They MUST not see you as weak! Also, dont go for the big things. Just try and get them to do little things. Just like my wife absolutely refused to talk to my counselor, I simply said. "I understand, It doesnt matter, just thought you could help. I will be fine either way." Guess what. It was safe for her. Now she is going to talk to him. That is a big step. Maybe now he can subtly try and get her to help herself. You must be happy in their prescense. I admitted to and agree with everything. I dont defend myself at all. Eventually she will! I must show her that I am different. I must show her that I dont need her. She will not pursue if she thinks I am a whining, wimp. She must also realize that she could possibly lose me and you know what, she just might. I am feeling wonderful. I have been doing the right things. I have failed a couple of times, but no one is perfect. She wants a fantasy marriage. She must see that SHE is losing something wonderful. I am considering dating in the near future. I really am. You dont have to sleep with someone or make big relationship plans to have a date. She thinks I am just waiting in the winds. I will break that paradigm for her. I must!

Thanks, Rob, I will look forward to your post, in my morning.<P>They sound a lot like MB concepts don't they...I mean, I don't think MB spells it out like that, but doing the Plan A things is showing them a stronger happy you, who shows the they are important, but, you can get on with your life anyway.<P>Sounds like a good book, I'll have to get it.<P>You sound like you are doing everything for your marriage. I hope she realises it and comes out of that fog soon!<P>Jacky

Thanks Jacky. I am trying with all of my might. I am praying for you and your husband. I am realizing now more than ever that I am human and I make mistakes. I am also understanding how hard things were for my wife. However, it takes two to tango and two to work it out. I can only do, what I can do, and I feel that following the above guidelines are my best shot. In the end, I will come out ahead. Remember, we dont NEED anyone to be happy. It is just our PREFERENCE to have them. Say that over and over. Being needy is selfish. It places ALL of the responsibility on someone else. YOU and I must be responsible for having joy (happiness is grounded in circumstance. Joy is there no matter what the circumstances. I choose joy). Christ came to give us joy, not happiness. Joy perservres, happiness is fleeting.<P>Talk to ya later tonight.

RobC, just wanted to mention that I know quite a few Al-Anon members that are in AA as well. They found after they got sober that something was still wrong...that their spouse's drinking was upsetting their lives. They teach you how not to enable and how to detach...sounds like you are moving forward with detaching!<P>Wishing you the best of luck!

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