First, I am sorry about your divorce. I did read about your plight and the strength with which you hung in there. That took guts and I honestly believe you did more than most would have. Physical abuse is terrible. I am sorry.<P>Thanks for the feedback. I do understand her. It is funny that you mention the role reversals. We separated two years ago for about 4 months. She turned into me, I turned into her. It is really strange. That is something I am STILL puzzled about. It reminds me of a quote someone mentioned in this forum from the movie the Mexican with Julia Roberts and Brad Pitt. Julia asks "When two people love each other and have such passion for one another, but can NEVER get it together, when do the give up". Pitt replies "Never." I have always known my wife and I love each other passionately and perhaps that IS what is making this so difficult. We always knew we would grow old together and that nothing could lead us to where we are now. She says she cannot hold out hope for us.<P>I DO understand her, but I just dont understand someone telling me day in and day out. "You must not give up! You can do this, we need you to do this" It was working, but in walked the Father-In-Law. He basically hates me and wants us to divorce. My wife is staying with him and he told her that if she even considers working it out, she needs to move immediately. I have tried to take the pressure off and been leaving her alone, but she calls and we talk and then back and forth with the talk and then, "There is no hope for us" talk rolls around. At some point I have to get off that rollercoaster.<P>I AM understanding of her difficulty. Our marriage was tough, my drinking and spending really made things hard. I have taken care of half of 20k in debt in 4 months. I want the marriage to work, but I can only do some much.<P>She has asked me to do so much for her and I have given more in child support than required (250/month more, I give her 1300/month now), I take the kids to football and soccer practice, I babysit for her when she needs me to, and all I asked was that she ensure the kids were in church on Sunday mornings. She doesnt have to go, just the kids. In four months, she has taken them twice! I realize I cant make her, but it is in the agreeement and that is ALL I asked for. I took 85% of the debt and am paying my rear off to eliminate it.<P>I realize she is probably worn out. But I really dont like for people to give me advice they are not willing to take themselves. I have given space, time, effort and such and I dont expect anything, NOTHING, in return. I basically had to beg her to talk with my counselor so that he could help ME. She doesnt want counseling, and I understand. But I am loving, caring, and I bend over backwards to help her, but in the end will that really help her? I think at some point I must say NO. Just as I had to hit bottom, she has to hit it. It was her choice to leave and I am grateful for her doing it, because it forced me to take care of my problem.<P>I will be there for her. I am wanting to work it out, however, emotionally I must prepare for the fact that she told me it wont. I wont give up, I am just putting a process in place that helps me become stronger and better off either way. I wont whine, moan, beg, or plead. I will just be the good-hearted guy I know that I am. In reality, that is ALL I can do.<P>Thanks anna. I do understand her, really, I do. But do you think she understands me? I know she is scared and nervous. I wont leave her alone if possible, but just like I was she now is...What would you do?

Rob,<P>Well, when I say you need to be there for her, sometimes being there for her means at some point you may need to use tough love. If it were me at some point I would have to consider using tough love. This would not be giving up on her but just helping her hit rock bottom a little sooner so she can hopefully get the help she needs. <P>I think you are doing a great job killing her with kindness and you just have to know it may take more months and a lot of patience than what you really want. Anyway, I think I would have to ask myself some questions, such as, is the money I am giving her being used in a good way or a bad way. This is the money for the children and if she is not using this money in a positive way then how is that helping her. So if she is abusing this money then you need to reevaluate your agreement.<P>Also, in regards to the children going to church. Is there any way she would agree to you taking them to church? If so, then problem solved, if not then I don't know what to tell you to do, other than she is breaking your agreement and you may want to talk to an attorney.<P>Also, unfortunately I don't have all the answers and I do worry that I will tell you something that will cause more problems than less, since after all I am not a professional.<P>I am sure you would like her to say, and if it were me I would want to hear this too, "Wow you have helped us get the financial problems under control and you have given me way more than you were suppose to and for this I thank you." Maybe some day she will, but she is so involved in her own problems it will probably be a long time from now. Just to say too, I am glad you are contributing not just money but support. Sometimes a man thinks if he contributes money then he has done his part and nothing else needs to be done. For people who have money, it is easy to contribute money, it is so much harder to actually contribute time, but you seem to be doing both. <P>Well good luck with everything and keep me posted.<P>ANNA<P>BTW al-anon has great information on line it's <A HREF="http://www.al-anon.org" TARGET=_blank>www.al-anon.org</A>

Anna,<BR>Again, thanks. I find it very hard to understand your husband at all. What an idiot!<P>I have asked her to call me I and I would come and take them. She never does. They tell me, we didnt go again, and when I ask her, she says "I was depressed". I understand, but when I say "Call me" She will not do it. As a matter of fact we both believed that Halloween should not be celebrated in the traditional manner. We did that for our entire marriage. Now, all of a sudden, my kids say, we are going trick-or-treating, we have a jack-0-lantern. Now I am not a religious fanatic, but we just dont celebrate halloween. we always did something at church with the kids. It is like she is abdicating her beliefs, perhaps she never believed at all. I am worried about her, but mostly my children. They love church and are always excited to come see me because we go. It is almost like she is intentionally doing this. The list could go on.<P>Anyway, I am going to check out Al-Anon. If you ever need to talk, I will listen. That is something else I was never very good at, but I am learning.<P>I know that time will tell. The fact that she has agreed to talk to my counselor via phone to give her side of the story to help me is a good sign. Maybe HE can make some headway there.<P>One time she told our pastor during some counseling that if God told her personally that he wanted her to endure for another 40 years and everything would work out, she wouldnt do it. Period. She also told me she was mad at God, because he hadnt answered her prayers in changing me. Today, that really gives me insight into where my wife is. She is confused and I agree, this all might be too much for her.<P>Thanks A

Rob,<P>One more quick "this is what I'd do". I would call and also email her and say this,(in as positive of a voice as I can muster) Since you are going through a hard time right now and have trouble with making it to church on Sunday mornings, I would like to help. I will be by early every Sunday morning to pick the children up for church from now on...btw I don't remember how old your children are but if they are old enough to get dressed then I would call ahead of time every Sunday morning and ask them to get dressed and tell them you are on your way....Also, if they are too young to get dressed, I would suggest you go early to help them get dressed...if possible of course...Another way to do this is if she'd let them spend the night with you every Saturday night......Either way, problem solved. I have a feeling you may be thinking "Well then she'll never go to church because I am taking on the responsibility for her." If this is what you are thinking then my response would be "She won't go to church anyway, then you'll have your children not going and her not going. What is this accomplishing and also these are also your children and your responsibility to make sure they get to church?" Also, I would also tell her this "If some Sunday morning you feel like taking the children to church then I would appreciate it if you call me so I won't make an unnecessary trip of picking them up."<P>Well as it is now the difference is you have put the responsiblity of her taking the children to church and/or the responsiblity of her calling you on her. She's not healthy enough or maybe just doesn't want to have either responsibility right now.<P>Well I am going back to work now.<P>ANNA<P><BR>