Horrible. Went for counseling today. First, she forgot appointment, so we started very late. Did not take long to get into a bad place, i expressed my hurt at my situation being out of house, kids, no marriage. major LB to say the least.<P>That prompted her to come out and say that "we are not getting back together. It's over and we are getting divorced. I don't want to hurt you any more". I of course have known this was possible, but she was so sure of it, so cold and certain. God, I was crushed. Got very emotional, which made her angry. Long, hard session. We had initially agreed to 12 sessions, this was #5 and now we will do just one more to wrap up.<P>I hurt so bad. I know it is not over yet, but it sure looks that way. After only two months of separation. It seems so pointless now to keep on. She sees my efforts at change as manipulation, doesn't trust them. I showed her such weakness, such hurt-exact opposite of where I needed to be. And now, to try and act positively, she will just see it as more manipulation. Geez, I screwed up so bad.<P>My friends at work all say get a lawyer now. Maybe I should. Just really, really tough. God I am so low now.

Hi,<P>Hey you didn't screw up, she's just not willing to try right now. And, if she's willing to go one more time, divorce may not be what she really wants. Don't be so hard on yourself.<P>ALSO JUST WANT TO SAY HANG IN THERE,THINGS WILL GET BETTER WITH OR WITHOUT HER.<P>ANNA<P>

Oh, that sounds like a painful session. I can feel your hurt all the way up here in the soon-to-be-frozen tundra. But let me echo Anna: things will get better with or without her.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ANB3:<BR>She sees my efforts at change as manipulation, doesn't trust them. I showed her such weakness, such hurt-exact opposite of where I needed to be. And now, to try and act positively, she will just see it as more manipulation. Geez, I screwed up so bad.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So you know exactly what you did wrong in the session; that's a good start towards fixing it. <P>"I don't want to hurt you anymore" is an interesting way of asking for a divorce. A lot of us have heard similar things: you deserve someone better, you need things I can't give you, etc. When my wife has said similar things, I fight to stay on my message: yes it hurts, but it doesn't mean I'll stop loving you. I never expected marriage to be perfect. Getting through the hurt to a better marriage is hard, but our love is worth the effor. "Divorcebusting" puts it a good way: I want to divorce our old marriage and start a new one with you. Your wife is trying to deal with her own guilt by running away. Understand that, and it will hurt you less.<P>Did she say she sees your changes as manipulation, or is that your interpretation? If she said it, it's out in the open, and you can talk about it. Tell her you can understand why she'd feel that way, why she'd be less than completely trusting of your changes, but that you are sincere. Affirm her feelings without denying your own. <P>If it's just your interpretation, then it's harder to talk about; you need some more competent help than I can give you.<BR>

(((((((((((((ANB3))))))))))))))))<P>I know exactly what it feels like to be told they want a divorce during counseling. It brought back BAD memories for me.<P>But listen a while.<P>He said it in our first and only counseling session, actually I think he just agreed with the counsellor that he wanted a divorce. Never said the word, and still hasn't nine weeks since.<P>My situation isn't great as you know, but he hasn't moved forward AT ATT with his revelation. This makes me think he doesn't want to yet. Sometimes things are said that are not actually meant.<P>I had a similar experience with the changes thing....but he said he could see the changes, and he was glad I was a better person for myself, but it was not for him. He said this a few times. That hurt....here I was being the best person I could be and it wasn't good enough. But then...if it isn't, why hasn't he done what he said he was going to do?<P>Give it some time, I really think that nothing will happen for a while and you will be able to Plan A a bit more, and maybe you'll get the time for her to see that these are permenant changes, and not a ploy to get her back.<P>Now, c'mere for another hug<P>((((((((((((((ANB3))))))))))))))))<P><BR>"Take heart, fair days will shine"<P>Love Jacky<P>------------------<BR>"When the going gets tough, the tough get going" - Nina's dad.

{{{{{ANB3}}}}}<P>I have a good word of encouragement for you. A year and half ago, my H left me and had an A, and it was a HORRIBLE year. My GOD, I have been to hell and back, yet somehow managed to stay married...but boy, it hasn't been easy. Now, just recently, my H and I have been to a total of about eight counseling sessions (here comes the encouraging part) and after our first counseling session, I thought we were finished too. <P>Read this post I had after four counseling sessions: <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/003612.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/003612.html</A> <P>ANB3, part of the reason that counseling is often NOT successful is that when it starts, IT HURTS LIKE H*LL!!! People think that counseling is going to quickly fix the problem, and then when they hurt WORSE, they quit. I swear to God, I'm not kidding, stay with it. It does get better. Right now your W may feel hopeless and feel like giving up, but at least she found a place (counseling) to honestly and safely talk. That's one small baby step. <P>Look, you went into counseling and started right away with all the ways that you are hurt, and boy, you have every right to start there. You have been done wrong and you wanted to express yourself, right? Well, my H did the same thing, and I felt like he totally ripped my head off by blaming everything on me. Now, you probably just felt like, "YAY, I can finally get this off my chest and someone will finally hear how badly I've been treated." But to her, she may have suffered and been lonely and hurt for years, and then the first time in counseling, she heard you blame HER for how badly YOU had been hurt!!! <P>GET IT??<P>My point is this: that's exactly where we started off too. Now, as you can see, my life is not easy and I hurt a lot, BUT my H is now facing his anger and going to anger classes. We have reached a fair fighting agreement, and a made a time out contract (for when our fights spiral downward out of control), and agreed on a "move home" list. That's REAL progress. I still feel hurt a lot of times in counseling, and our first session was in late June (I think we have had 8 or 9 sessions), but WE ARE STILL MARRIED and I think there is some progress. <P>So, don't give up just yet--even though I know it feels like your heart has been ripped out. Here is a giant bandaid, some lotion tissues for your tears, and a hug. Keep on going. And when your W says she wants to quit, ask her to just keep her commitment to go to the next session.<P>Okay? Okay!! {{{{{ANB3}}}}}<P>CK<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.