I waited and had no contact, ex finally used taxes as excuse to call. All i can say is I LB big time. I was hoping I would have better control, but she said things and then my anger came, I can see the only way we can communicate is in conflict. I swore to myself. I wasn't going to say anything just listen, she knows what buttons to push, I gave her the chance to try and hurt me, thats what she still wants to do. I don't understand why she is so angry and wants to hurt me so much. She is the one who left for OM, she filed. I quess it is her own pain and guilt that drives her. I think I am changing number, I think for me no contact is best. I don't see any hope of recovery and don't think I would even want it. Just the thoughts of her and all she did makes me sick to my stomach. I hope to hold on to better thoughts of her after 23 years.

Wow, sounds like me today. Jabber, you need a hug.<P>(((((((((((((((((((jabber))))))))))))))))))))))<P>All better? No, I didn't think so, but maybe a little bit better? <P>It's hard not to LB, I know. I knew I would LB today all day when my h phoned tonight, and I had thought of all the other ways to say things before I talked to him. But the sound of his voice and a few buttons he pushed just got me going. They are so good at this!!! They want to think you're the baddie, and they want YOU to think that too, so they go all out to get you to be the baddie. And we end up feeling baddies because we're human.<P>Well, I'll tell you the same thing you told me; keep your head held high, because you will make it through all of this stuff, and ask yourself who will be the better of you two at the end of it. Right, you!<P>And I know that sick to the stomach feeling too, probably we all do here...maybe it will pass and maybe not, but whatever happens to your marriage, you WILL come through. <P>You are a strong person, jabber, I can see it with every word you write.<P>Take care.<P>Jacky<P>PS, Why the heck ARE you up so early every day?

Is kinda surreal when you see folks with the same stats as you. Ya wonder how their lives are, running in parallel. I too have been married 23 years, only I am the ws (male). Funny (not haha) about button pushing, we all "feel" those who know us have this power. My w and I get in terrible fights over relationship stuff (every couple days seems to be the cycle). We still live together (the A stopped 1 month ago), and I feel she tries to "get" me. But I suppose she really doesn't, it is just the unfortuneate reality of 2 people who maybe should never have married. Anyways I am thinking of taping all such interactions and getting someone to analyze em, cause we get absolutely nowhere. My feeling is it is the same old crap, this marriage is all about her, she doesn't even hear me. In addition it is all about controlling me emotionally. I wonder if your wife feels the same about you. I can only tell you that intense anger is a trmendous sympton that something is very very wrong....(not necessarily in a personally defective way, but maritally). And is maybe an unmistakeable sign the marriage is supposed to end. No one likes rejection, but if the feelings of rejection and expression of anger thusly, are more important than not LB and plan a'ing one should ask themself if maybe they really don't want the ws anyways (as you seem to be asking). I don't know your story or your w, but I do know the ws regularly get trashed here, like we don't have any buttons to be pushed, or legitimate (negative) feelings either about the bs, but we do. We are not ogres, who hate you, and are on a mission to torment you. 23 years is a long time, I am sure she cares about you, she just may not want to be married to you anymore, and possibly with very good reason. When you LB her, you just confirm that, at least that is how I feel when my w does. Sorry you are having a bad time.