Well I know this is the place to vent so here I go. <P>I can't take this anymore. It has been a month now since d-day and this roller coaster ride just keeps going down. I've been planAing my [censored] off yet trying to not over do it. This has made it really hard for my wife to leave but she is still leaving. Earlier this week after really treating WS like a queen I saw that look in her eye. THe look I haven't seen in so long. She didn't have to say anything her eyes said it all and I played it off cool and with a smile. Later that night in bed after a month of not letting me touch her she rolled over a put her arm around me and kissed my shoulder. God the bliss in such a simple act. She talks in her sleep and always has. That night she said she can't imagine leaving me. I just held on and cherished every moment. The next day though, Friday, she packed up the cats and went to OM's for the weekend. THe second weekend in a row. In two weeks she moves out for good and I imagine she won't be here next weekend. Oh I try to play it cool. I planA as good as the best of them. But when she's gone I'm a complete basket case. I think I've cried more in the past month than I ever did when I was a kid. The thing that kills me is when I've asked she can't think of one reason why she shouldn't try this relationship again. She's even said we had a good relationship, she's never been angry or bitter towards me, there's no bad things that I've done she just fell in love with someone else. How can she not have one second thought about us again. God, I would give my life just for a chance at it again. I've had people I've loved be murdered and this pain is nowhere close to that pain. Why does this hurt so bad. How can one person, the person I've never had to worry about trust and commitment and an all encompassing love be so selfish and change so drastically in so little time. She returns tomorrow and how can I hide the desperation the loneliness the pain that is inside of me. It takes everything inside of me not to run up to her hold her and beg and plead to stop doing this. That if only she would let me I would make her the happiest woman in the world. She says the hard thing to do is just give up the OM and mend our fences and move on, ending it now will be easier in the long run. I think that's bull****! I don't know what to do anymore. Two weekends from now haunts me like nothing else ever has. While I'm away at a buisness retreat her and OM will be inside of our house moving her out. I can't even stand the thought. I'm so lost and so alone.

(((((((((((((Goodguy))))))))))))))))<P>(((((((((((((Goodguy)))))))))))))))))<P>(((((((((((((Goodguy)))))))))))))))))<P>I am so sorry for your pain. I wish someone over there in Cinderella's thread could wave a magic wand and it would all go back to normal for you.<P>But since that isn't going to happen, just know that we are here, listening, giving cyber hugs and that you are most definetly NOT alone.<P>It must be incredibly difficult for you to let your w go spend the weekend with her OM...bet she can't believe her luck that you do that. If my h had done that with my knowledge, I wouldn't be here when he got back. It is so much harder to stay as you have done.<P>So, whether you know it or not, you are a very strong person. VERY strong. <P>Now what you need to do is summon up some of that stength, and use it to take care of yourself. I know, you don't want to...you are deep in the pain. But you MUST, if you are going to survive this.<P>If I were you I would make sure I was out when she got home...so it doesn't look like you are just sitting around waiting for her. And if she asks where you were, just be vague...she may not show you, but it will make her think a little. Maybe let her see you have a life.<P>Goodguy, take care.<P>

<BR>((((((GOODGUY))))))<BR>Wow, I don't understand your wife at all! Well, I don't know what to say. I am hoping she has guilt all weekend! I don't see how she can't feel guilty all weekend. I know that pain in the pit of your stomach and how bad it hurts. It can go away though. I hope she comes out of her fog soon. I think someday she will hate what she has done.<P>Take care and be strong,<P>ANNA

Nina,<P>Thanks for the hugs and encourging words. To be honest when she leaves to go to OM it is one of the hardest times for me not to blow up. I always hold her as tight as I can and tell her that I will always be here with open arms. Yeah she is getting the best of both worlds. She gets two people who love her completely and I get none. But the last thing I will ever do is push her further away. <P>You know if I lived in a different place things might be different. We recently moved to this state and as sad as it sounds I have no friends or family and live in a small town with hardly anything to do. So when this weekend she also took the cats I have never felt more alone. I think I will take your advice and not be here when she arrives. I had been planning on going into work late. My reasoning is she wouldn't get off so easy seeing me here alone right when she got back. This is so hard. I don't think I would wish this on anyone no matter how evil of a person they are.<P>I asked for radical honesty and I'm getting it. It was harder when she would lie about where she was going or why she might leave the house(to call OM). Only because she is so terrible at lying I always saw right through it. <P>Any suggestions on how to respond or act when it seems like she is rubbing OM in my face?<P>Thank you Nina from the bottom of my heart.

Anna2000<P>Yeah what a wife eh? I can't believe her either. She truly is possesed. I wouldn't ever in my wildest dreams imagine her acting this way. I know she feels guilty. When she leaves I stand in the driveway(this weekend kneeled in the driveway) just so she has to look at me while she drives away. She also agreed to call me tonight to say whether she is coming home tonight or tomorrow. Of course it is tomorrow but without so many words she felt guilty as hell. I just hope it put a damper on their weekend. She even said it makes her sad to think of me here all alone. I told her I was doing things that made me happy and through in some things that we used to love to do together and to be honest I think it made her feel better that I wasn't in my closet crying my eyes out. (little does she know). Thank you for your support and I really need advice how to react when she leaves openly for OM.<P>Thank you. I made a pact with God that either way if he got me through this I would help others. I don't think I can repay yet what everyone here has done but I will someday.<P>

Goodguy,<P>It is totaly understandable that you would want to LB when she leaves to spend time with him. See how incredibly strong you are, that you haven't yet? NOT LB'ing takes such strength...I always felt good about it when I managed to avoid LB's, but SO exhausted from the effort afterwards!!!<P>She rubs OM in your face just by being honest about seeing him, well you asked for complete honesty and she gave it to you. I admire you for that, a lot of us here don't want to know.<P>How else does she rub him in your face? If I had some examples, I might be able to help.<P>

Nina,<P>Well packing up, seeing what she is going to wear, making sure her make up is fixed, perfumed and driving off to spend the weekend with OM is the biggest way she rubs him in my face. Really the only other way she does it is to step out at night for an hour or so, which I have come to know as her calling to talk to him on her cell. I know he emails her constantly and I have stopped snooping. Maybe as a result of the honesty. The only thing I find is the intimate details which the few I have will be burned into my memory forever. That's it really. Not to say that's not alot but you know this whole PlanA thing doesn't really tell you what to do when WS is getting out really nice underwear for the weekend with OM.

Goodguy,<P>Gotta question for ya. Are you counseling with Dr. Harley?<P>ANNA<BR>

Oh wow, that sucks, really! I am angry at her on your behalf.<P>When my H was in A #1, one night he came to me before he was going out "for a drink with the boys" and asked me how he looked. I said he needed to change something, shirt or whatever, so he did, then came out and asked me again. <P>I was giving him advice to look good for HER, but I didn't know it at the time. I realised much later, blew up at him, and all he did was looked sad about it. What a rotten thing to do to me, hey???<P>He also slipped out to phone her, got really annoyed one time when he said he was going somewhere and I tagged along with the kids....BAD mood all the way there, but he DID manage to disappear and call her just the same.<P>So I have had similar experiences to you. <P>What to do...gee Goodguy, sorry for this, you aren't going to like it. My biggest instinct for you is to kick her out on her a**. Make a stand, show her you love her, but you will NOT be degraded by her any longer.<P>Now since I know you don't want to do this, and she is leaving in two weeks anyhow, I would suggest that you get yourself out of the house, go stay somewhere else, telling her the same message, but much less LB'ing. You should not have to watch this kind of stuff, and it is inhumane for her to expect it from you.<P>But if you don't want to do either of these, may I suggest that next time you get out of the house as soon as she begins her preparations, you you don't have to watch it...go for a walk, a drive, anything.

Dear Goodguy,<P>Your post is so ... hard to read. These next few days will be so hard for you, but as Nina said, you are going to surprise yourself with the inner strength you will find.<P>You want your marriage, so it is best not to do anything that could be considered a LB. That kiss on the shoulder says tons about what's in her head, and should give you some hope. Try to remember she is blind to your pain, this is all about her, not an attempt to hurt you.<P>On the other hand, there is nothing that says you can't set some limits and tell her what you are feeling. She wants to slink out gracefully on her time frame. I would request (insist)that she go now. If she has somewhere to go in two weeks, pack her belongings WITH her, put them in storage if you must and put her in a hotel. Make sure she knows she must take everything as she is not welcome back to cherry pick your home. Write the letter and go to Plan B. This can all be done in a loving way.<P>This is not to force her hand into ending the affair. This is for YOU. Nobody should be forced to live like this. <P>Additionally, I'd let someone at work know what is happening to you, CANCEL that trip and take some time off. If she or they can't move her while you are around that also speaks volumes about being able to face you.<P>Your last sentence, tears at my heart. I've been there. Other than here, the world unknowingly does not understand your intense pain and grief. If my husband had died nobody would have expected me at work for weeks. With this, we are supposed to just keep on keeping on. I say, NO. Stop, just stop. Get off the day to day ride and do what you need to do for you.<P>Take my suggestions or not, I'm certainly no expert. I've just lived it and been here a long time and watched so much of this play out. I understand your feelings.<P>Keep posting, let us hear you -- we care.

I really understand what you're going through, Gg. I wish I could offer some sort of solution to "fix" your WS, but I can't.<P>What I <B>can</B> say to you is that you do have the strength to get through all of this...you may doubt that, but you really do! <P>I know from firsthand experience. I am now 14 months past d-day, and unfortunately 7 months divorced, and I'm still standing. I could never see this day coming. I never thought I could survive the pain, the betrayal, the lies, and the painful truth that my XW really thought she loved someone else more than me. <P>Now, I've found myself in an interesting situation: My XW is a basket case, and I'm okay! Emotionally, I'm stronger than I've ever been, and you will come to this place, too. I hope and pray that you don't wind up divorced like me, but even if you do, know that there is life after this terrible pain. There is something beyond betrayal and divorce. There really <B>is</B> hope for you. <P>That's the thing...you really have to realize that Plan A and Plan B are for <B>you</B>, not for her. There is really nothing you can do to "force" her to see through the fog. Plan A isn't about winning her back by being nice to her, it's about focusing on yourself and not letting her behavior destroy you emotionally. You can't change her, and you shouldn't try. However, you can change how you react to her temporary insanity.<P>You said: "I can't take this anymore. It has been a month now since d-day and this roller coaster ride just keeps going down."<P>I wish I could say it gets better, but it probably won't. Hang on, and realize that you <B>can</B> take more, you <B>will</B> take more, and you will emerge on the other side a better person, whether you are still married or not.<P>Hang in there.

Wow,<P>It seems the concensus is to kick her out on her butt. Now I'm really confused. I've only had four weeks of Plan A. How do I kick her out in a loving way. I'm nowhere near the point of Plan B yet. Maybe its desperation but I don't even know if I have it in me to kick her out.<P>To answer some questions.<BR>Anna no I'm not seeing Dr. Harley. I can barely make rent let alone spend the kind of fees he asks for. I am seeing a counselor locally but my insurance pays for it. Also, I've only met with her once I meet her again this week then she is gone for surgery for two weeks. Great timing.<P>Inshock,<BR>I really don't feel I'm ready to go to plan b. Also, how can this be done in a loving way. To be honest kicking her out just has never crossed my mind yet.<BR>Also,"If she or they can't move her while you are around that also speaks volumes about being able to face you." What do you imply by this?<P>REALLY REALLY REALLY CONFUSED!<P><BR>

Also,<P>I have a good feeling that she is going to do this again next weekend. If nothing else and if she is going to move out in the weekend after that how can I demand in a nonLB way that she does not do that??

Goodguy,<P>I do know the feeling of barely being able to pay rent. However, if there's anyway ANYWAY you can talk to Dr. Harley, I think it would help you. I'd tell him you can't afford him but you needed some questions answered and some guidance on how to proceed with plan A when she is doing this. The information on the site is excellent, but I really think he could help you and encourage you to go on. I have also heard that he is really really good from a dear friend of mine.<P>Maybe I'm putting to much on what one session can do, but my gut feeling tells me it would help you alot.<P>Goodluck.<BR>ANNA<BR>

Gg,<P>Did you read my post above...at the end I suggested YOU move out until she has moved out. You can say "I love you and I want to be with you, but I feel too much pain when I see you getting ready for OM. I will live somewhere else for this two weeks until you are gone." This removing yourself from the situation with minimal LB'ing...can you do this?

Howdy, neighbor! Sorry to hear you're not doing so good. Can I sit by ya for a while and hand you tissues while you cry? Hey, it's what Coloradans do for each other!<P>GoodGuy, I wish that somehow I could wave a magic wand and take this pain away. Believe me, I know that there is no pain greater than the betrayal and loss of someone you love. I remember it all too well. But you will get through this. Let me say that again. YOU WILL GET THROUGH THIS! <P>I know that right now your mind is desperate for answers. What did I do wrong? What can I do to win her back? Why doesn't she love me anymore? You can't think or eat or sleep, and everything you catch your breath, you start to cry. There are memories EVERYWHERE, and smells and sights that just pierce your heart to the very core. I know...I know. <P>So here is reality, my friend. There is nothing you can do to stop her or change her mind or "make" her love you. She will do what she is going to do. That SUCKS big time, I know, but that's the truth. Here is some literal, logical, practical advice for you. <P>Buy LOTION kleenex, because if you buy regular kleenex and keep wiping your eyes and blowing your nose, it will eventually chaff your eyes! I'm so sorry, but there's no sense in rubbing the skin off your eyes, and you must cry. <P>Next, buy some soup in single serving cans. I know you can't imagine eating or having an appetite, and yet you HAVE TO take care of you, and you can swallow soup even when there's a lump in your throat. It's warm and feels a little better, and if you can microwave a little cup of it, you don't have to do dishes or even hardly get up! <P>Third, don't roll your eyes, but buy a great big teddy bear--or if you are just TOO MANLY to buy a bear, a great big smooshy soft pillow to hug. There will be times that you need a hug or to hug something, and we just can't reach through the monitor and do it--even though I'm sure every one of us would! But it helps to have a big old smooshy thing there, to hug and cry into, and sometimes even to pretend it's a cyberhug from a cyberfriend! <P>Fourth, you NEED to get some rest, even though your mind is SWIRLING and you can't possibly think of sleeping. You will get ill or make yourself crazy if you don't get some rest. So...get some relationship books (if you like to read) or get a journal or whatever is your way of expressing yourself. Then, decide "logically" when you should go to bed (whether you will sleep or not) and when it's time, go lay down. If you can't sleep, sit in a comfy chair with low lights, and read to get your eyes tired. If that doesn't work, try writing--maybe you have something on your mind that you HAVE to get out. Maybe you can write here or maybe in a journal. And by the way (BTW), you can say ANYTHING here. Trust me, we have all been where you are and we all understand every heart ache and every tear. If you are still not tired, try praying. Pray for Nina Too/Jacky who's husband is with the other woman (OW) will he let her move far away to be with her parents. Pray for Anna, who's husband hasn't left her yet but tells her he is not happy. Pray for Wolfen, who's in the military and who's wife just left him. Pray for OMG-TERRIFIED who brought up divorce in the midst of a fight, and her husband took her up on it. See, Good Guy, praying for others does MANY things for you. First, it reconnects you to God, and that is always good. Second, it helps the people for whom you are praying. And third, it helps YOU to realize that there are others out there who need you. You are reminded that you are not alone and that even in your sorrow, you can minister to someone else. <P>Fifth, come here and talk as much as you want and learn as much as you can. Don't just come here to the forum, but also go out on the Marriage Builder site and learn about Plan A and Plan B. Learn about Emotional Needs (ENs) and Love Busters (LBs). Learn about the Policy of Joint Agreement. Learn about the Giver and the Taker. And this is going to be a tall order, but TRY to understand how another person slowly crept in and won over your wife. It probably didn't start "on purpose". I bet he was just attentive to her one day...a little flirty...and she thought "wow" and felt pretty. And the next time, he took the time to listen to her, instead of acting like she was an interruption to a TV show. And then he asked here about what she likes...and then did it! This part is awful, I know. It takes quite a man, quite a lot of courage, to face this...I know. But this is how you will learn how to win her back. <P>Good Guy, just so you know, I'm with you all the way. And BTW, there is plenty to do in your little town!! Go hiking. Go to a park and write poems. Take photos, even if they are stupid little amateur ones. Go to a movie. DRIVE OVER TO VAIL (haha)!! Dude, you could shop there for forever--of course, you'd be broke, but oh well! Take a carriage ride. Go rafting. Climb a mountain. Okay--that last suggestion is actually a good one, because I'll tell you a secret. When I lose it and just can't go on anymore, I climb a mountain, and somehow, I'm closer to God. I can see Him up there somehow. <P>{{{{{{{{{{GoodGuy}}}}}}}}}}<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

To Faithful Wife,<P>That was such a sweet note, but just a small correction...STBXhusband has left, STBXhusband filed for divorce also, it should be final in one more month, but i am ok because stbx was physically abusive so I know it's for the best...just have many struggles of dealing with being divorced right now.<P>Love,<P>ANNA<P><BR>

Faithfull wife,<P>Thank you. As I read your reply tears again come to my eyes but for the first time in a really long time they are tears of joy. <P>Pillow is already used all the time. I'm getting back to sleeping and even though I like the 15 pounds I've lost this month I'm eating again. So I am taking care of myself now. <P>You know her affair happened EXACTLY the way you have described. That's why I have so much faith in this site. Exactly the reasons Harley gives for why affairs happen is why I have read and studied over and over what he says to do to save this marriage. That's why I have never deviated from Plan A. ITS FRUSTRATING AS HELL THOUGH WHEN THE WS STILL CAN"T GIVE A GOOD REASON WHY SHE WON"T GIVE US A SECOND CHANCE. <P>Also, I have done alot of praying. I have always been a religous person and even though none of my prayers have yet to be answered I still feel close to God. I do pray for everyone here. To everyone that has been so nice and supportive I can honestly say I wish you had never been put in the situation that drove you to this site but you have helped one man come through the worst time of his life. Thank you all from the bottom of my heart and I will return the favor.<P>Well its late for me, my eyes hurt, my body is drained and my head is numb but I do feel better. Time for bed. Goodnight everyone.<P>

You beat me to it, I was just going to suggest you should get some sleep!<P>CJ gave you some really good advice to get through this hard time...<P>For the record, my h DID not get in the way of me leaving the country...I have been back home for ten days.<P>OMG!!! Just checked my profile and I have made 1001 posts in a very short time...can't believe that!<p>[This message has been edited by Nina too (edited September 17, 2001).]

Nina too: I BELIEVE IT!!! I dread the day that you and Anna Banana start talking to each other--you'll break the mega-thread record!! HEEHEE HAHAHA<P>Good Guy, <BR>OMG, do I know what you mean!! It is SO frustrating! Every cell of your body and mind screams out, "WHY!!!" and they can give no good answer. My only thought to you would be this. As much as you can, calm your mind and consider this. It was FIVE MONTHS before my H came home, and then another THREE MONTHS before he let me touch him in a loving way, and then FOUR MONTHS of sort of a relapse into hating me, and then EIGHT MORE MONTHS to get where I am now! I'm not kidding you!! (I think I get a "go to heaven free" card--haha) So, calm your mind and prepare yourself for a long haul. It probably will not happen overnight or quickly. But you have it within you to do this. I know that may sound HORRIBLE right now, but trust me, if I have it within me to win back my H, you can too! I'm just a little peanut after all!<P>Well, good night. Sweet dreams.<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.