Nina too, you’ve been so helpful to me. I know you’ve made a lot of progress to get where you are and to be truly at peace with yourself. To know that you’ve done everything you could possible do before letting go. I’m want to answer your question but by no means am I suggesting that you continue to try to make things work with your H, that’s for you to decide. So, here are my thoughts on your last post. <P>He sounds like my W sometimes. I wish they would come out and say what they’re feeling. To be honest, I think they (WSs) know what they want. I think they want to come home but don’t want to feel shame. The whole time they make us these lies to justify their actions but the truth is I think they feel guilty. Guilty for everything that they’ve done. The problem is I don’t know if they’re strong enough to face reality. Face all the horrible things that they have done and the choices they have made. I think it’s easier for them to give up than accept responsibility for their actions. I don’t have much experience in this area but that’s what i think.<P>Good Luck!<P>

Hooray for you Nina! You handled it great. The same thing happened to me last night. Called the wife prior to picking up kids, she answered "What!" I said, Im here and she hung up. She called me 3 times (i missed first two) during my boys scrimmage. The third time I returned the call, she asked how it was going, I said fine, and said "Okay, bye" Kind of cut her off. I think she wanted to say more and she sounded kind of lumpy in the throat as she said "Okay". I felt bad, but we must remain STRONG Nina. He must see YOUR strength and that you are ok WITHOUT him. Dont give in, dont give up! He is going to test you, know that! Stick to your guns. Over time they will understand the futility of their choices.

Wow, thanks for another good couple of posts!<P>Purple Tang and RobC, I think in some ways you are right, he does feel guilty, and maybe insecure cos I am doing things. He definetly didn't seem to like it that I had actually thought of some things myself!!! He doesn't want me to cope, because if I do, it means he was all wrong about me, and his mistakes are far worse. Also with complete freedom to be with OW, maybe the shine is wearing off already.<P>But I was so sure I didn't want the SOB any more....why did I go intpo Plan A??? This is odd. I feel like Pavlov's dog.

Why did you go back into plan a, I don’t know. Maybe you were so exhausted that you had to let go but that really isn’t what you wanted? Something to think about.<P>As for me, I’m going to try to have very limited contact with my wife for awhile and wait for her to make the next move. I told a close friend last night (her bridesmaid) and she told me to tell my W to hit the road. She was very upset and couldn’t believe my wife would do these things. I don’t know if the friend will ask her about it so I have to wait and see what happens.<BR>

Hi Jacky,<P>You did that because even tho you are so angry, there is still a bunch of stuffed down love and disappointment. Somehow inside you want to find a smidge of hope that there is something redeemable about him. Anger is just an extension of love. You just can't turn it off so quick especially after spending half your life with that person. There are two guys in your mind that are battling - the guy who's the disgusting pig who flippantly risked your health over and over, and the decent guy you thought he was. You just have to remember that he's not the guy you thought he was, that is not reality. It takes a long time for that to sink in because you've been fooled so long.<P>You know I'm talking because I've been there. And I don't agree that they all feel guilt. Maybe over the kids, ya, and maybe that's why some don't come around as much as they should. Mine never gave our children any of HIS free time, even when we were married. These people are also the best liars and actors around, sobbing is only their way of making you feel sorry for them, like THEY are the victims. They love to make themselves the victims. And some people are just plain void of a conscience - as mine showed me by the sheer hate for me when I did nothing to him but plan A my butt off, then he tried to wipe me out in court so that he and OW could have a real sweet life by giving me/the kids nothing. I think our whole society/world is full of people with no consciences. I don't know, maybe it's like a birth defect or something. I think we rationalize in our own minds that because we feel a conscience that THEY MUST have some sort of guilt also.<P>It takes time Jacky. Take care. <P>------------------<BR>Kathy<P><p>[This message has been edited by weirded out (edited September 21, 2001).]

Purple Tang.<P>I am so glad you decided to talk to people...you sound so much stronger. It really helps to tell, because friends will say the same things you are thinking....how could they do this to us...and it is not all in our heads, and we are not unreasonable to be angry, sad and all that stuff. Others confirm and support. That's why they are so important.<P>People who know my H would not recognise him now...he has totally changed and he thinks it's okay with everyone. Well it isn't, and he will find that out.<P>Kathy, <P>Hi there. Yes I have two guys in my head, but I really feel the baddie is the one I am seeing most now. I think he is just feeling sorry for himself. <P>My MIL was talking to me today and said a bunch of stuff about how she was looking at old photos of us, and you could see the love in his eyes etc...I didn't want to hear that today. She was also saying he is in MLC, which I also think, but that doesn't excuse the past. I could not tell her that.<P>Oh yes I have a lot of work to do.<P>

It seems like whatever anyone tells you is going to be colored by his/her own experiences, and since none of us actually know your H, you're the only one who can make sense of it all. Is he feeling guilty? Lost? Is he trying to manipulate you? It could be any of these things- what's important is what you think he's doing.<P>Right now, you seem to be rebuilding your life, and your kids' lives. That's your focus. It seems to me anything he does, short of getting on a plane, showing up at your door, admitting he has serious psychological problems, and announcing he's going to get professional help for them, is beside the point.<P>So why did you slip back into plan A? Because Plan B is hard- that's why they say you should be on anti-Ds when you do it. You care about him, angry as you are. You wish he was the man you thought he was. You know that wishing won't make it so, but knowing that won't make you stop wishing. So of course you ask him how he is. Don't beat yourself up- it's far from a backslide, and from your description of events, I'd say you handled things excellently.<P>What's the time diff to Victoria anyway? Shouldn't you be in bed? Of course, I should be doing my job. Take care of yourself.

Well, as i write it is now 1.30am.<P>i cannot sleep before two.<P>Yes I know my H. Here is my take on it, and this is based on intuition and gut feeling:<P>I think he wanted to tell me something and it wasn't good news. And so he backed out. So all sorts of possibilities are going through my mind. This is really how I feel.<P>In the meantime, I am just getting on with things, I have to.<BR>

Hi Jacky,<P>It is so easy to do fall back into Plan A. I would swear to anyone that I have zero feelings for my X at this point. Zero, I mean I don't care what he does, I don't care about the OW (who I have to this day never seen), thought I didn't care if he lives or dies even. Until NY. That day I had to meet him at the bank to cash a check right after all the attacks (I guess he'll always remember he was with me at the time that happened). I could hardly talk about it, I was so upset - but you know what came out of my mouth to him? With tears welled up, I told him to please see if he could find a way to not have to travel so much for business. He said that's just a fact of his job and I told him maybe he needs a new job.<P>When I got home I was so mad at myself. But you know what, I still pray for him even tho I don't want him in my life anymore.<P>How could you not care? It just shows that you are the one with the stronger character.<P>I sure hope you are sleeping as I'm writing this! Take care.<P><BR>------------------<BR>Kathy<p>[This message has been edited by weirded out (edited September 21, 2001).]

Hi Jacky,<P>Kathy made a very good point, what we deal with when seeing the WS is the two sides of what they are against what we thought they were. It is an odd thing the range of emotions that we go through when dealing with the WS. I finally hit my wall, and I am sure it took me a lot longer than many would have, but life does go on and I am feeling that I finally made the best choice by deciding to end the marriage than hold on to it. <P>As far as the puppy, he's an Australian Cattle Dog! It actually cost less than buying a really good one here would have. A bloodline I have wanted for a long time and it just happened to fit in with too many coincidences to say no. He's a happy little guy and I couldn't have asked for a nicer pup. I needed another dog like a hole in the head, but sometimes.... things just happen for a reason.<P>Keep up the good work of being the best mom you can for your kids; the rest will follow a path and you'll grow from it and whatever happens will be better in the long run!<P>Lori

(((((((Jackie)))))))))<BR>WAY TO GO!!!!!!!!!!<BR>You did great kiddo.<BR>As far as your question. Only he knows why he called back. Don not dwellon it or look into it. Just know you did good..<BR>wishing you well<BR>Janet

Thanks for some more good advice and pats on the back...wow you guys are great.<P>Well, I don't feel so bad today, not angry now, and I'm getting on.<P>Kathy, I was asleep when you posted.<P>Yeah, I'm an old softy, feeling concerned for H when he sounds down, but then I think, he did this to himself. I just don't want to feel anything at all regarding him.<P>bangarra, I have heard Australian Cattle dogs are really smart, and loyal. Good choice!<P>Janet, the second phone call has made me feel some sense of control in all of this, I made him do something, long time since that happened, even if it was under the guise of business.<P>Well, I think I am over most of the anger. I'm going to have a spa bath this afternoon, while my parents are out shopping...I will meditate in there if the kids can be quiet for long enough. Think I'll check out what sort of kids videos mum has....<P><BR>Love and light, and thank you all for helping me get myself together, yet again.<P>Jacky

Nina,<P>Read your post on husband calling. You shocked him by not feeding his ego and plan a-ing as usual. He's a guy who has low self-esteem and needs his ego stroked often. Once he called back the second time, he just needed to know he still could come back to you if he ever needed to. He sounds like such a selfish person.<P>ANNA<P>

Yep, Anna, got it in one. <P>I rocked his little boat...have to do that more often.<P>I am better, but still angry at my realisations, and I so, so want to write to him and say, "Hey, I was an idiot for seventeen years, but I just woke up."<P>But I won't cos what is the point.<P>I really don't feel anything but anger right now...but it is in more control than yesterday. I have been busy taking it out on SNL over in GQ II today.<P>GOOD NEWS!<P>I should get my car this week...do any of you know what a Holden Berlina is? Nice car, and my dad being in the trade got it for me really cheap!!!<P>I just want to take a little moment to thank my guardian angels for finding this site for me...it has been so much assistance to me.<P>You know all of you thought I'd be better with my family, but sadly my mum isn't there for me. She is stil dealing with my brother dying over 18 months ago ( and I know you can't put a time limit on this stuff), so all I get from her now is sheer anger, for giving her another problem to deal with. My kids are stressing her out big time, though they were usually well behaved.<P>So now I REALLY want to get my own place...<P>Well, enough of this. i am moving forward, I really am!<P>Thanks all!

Jackie you are doing great. I know there is no grade book for these things, but you are hanging tuff... You are moving on.. You and the kids will be fine... Your own place right about now doesnt sound like a bad idea. It sounds like this is hard on mum too. Im sure she only wants the best for you and the kids.. She probably has some disappointment in your stbx as well for hurting you and the kids. Let her vent if she needs to. Be there for her. Even still your own place is good you need your space too. Your doimg fine.<BR>B;essed be and wishing you well<BR>Janet

Hi Jacky,<P>good girl - being the first off the phone. I try to do that always, within the boundaries of politeness of course!!!!<BR>I'm very rarely rude to him, but just don't want to chat.<P>Good car, gads what am I talking about??? I know cars have 4 wheels and go from A to B...... that's it!!!<P>At least you'll be home for the grand final...... I can't wait. Brisbane V Essendon, go Lions!!!!!!!!! I follow Carlton from my time in Melb but really feel I should support the local team up here now!!! Any game betw. Carlton and Brisbane is a hard one tho,<P>keep your chin up girl, we all know what you're going through.<P>love and hugs<P>Jo

Well I was sitting here feeling a bit blue, and decided to check in to see if anyone was ther...bonnet you made my day!<P>I didn't know who won last night....but guess who's H barracks for Richmond? <P>A small amount of justice?!?<P>He will be really disappointed. <P>I was going for Collingwood for years and years, but I don't really follow footy much. I do like to watch the Grand Final, but this year it might be too much of a trigger...he loves the footy.<P>Anyway, the car is like a Commodore, silver, a/c electric windows, the works. I didn't need all of that, but Dad said I am getting value for money, and i must say I am glad it is a biggish car...my friend had a tiny one, okay for her, but when she had the kids it was really squashy.<P>I am cycling around the pain track now, just passed anger, coming up to futility again, next there's hope, dismay, hope again, anger, ambivalence....I'm getting dizzy!!!<P>Thanks for the words of support. I really think I am getting there. And he isn't. Well at least something's happening.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Purple Tang:<BR><B>He sounds like my W sometimes. I wish they would come out and say what they’re feeling. To be honest, I think they (WSs) know what they want. I think they want to come home but don’t want to feel shame. The whole time they make us these lies to justify their actions but the truth is I think they feel guilty. Guilty for everything that they’ve done. The problem is I don’t know if they’re strong enough to face reality. Face all the horrible things that they have done and the choices they have made. I think it’s easier for them to give up than accept responsibility for their actions. I don’t have much experience in this area but that’s what i think.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Oh thank you! I think we keep reading all these threads looking for someone to that sees and feels this mess the same way they do! After 22 years of wonderful (so I thought) marriage, I really believe he's too ashamed to continue because he knows he'd have to reveal how completely selfish, insensitive and horrible he was.<P>Thanks. I really needed that.<P><BR>